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Dramatic but this is how I feel now...

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  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507

    What do you mean? They still apply Deep Wounds to waste the survivors' time, they still have a powerful detection tool, and they're still good at getting first hits. What is this "Only thing they had going for them"?

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Numb. That's a good word for it. Maybe when that wears off I'll be in the fight again... but for now I just can't. I want a full rework and a removal of DW from there power... I've been fighting for months and eating a ban in the process, fighting to keep my threads of Legion rework ideas alive through forum bugs and everything else. I just can't anymore, not right now.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 814

    First hits, not last hits. The detection tool is average to lack luster dependent on the size of the map. And it barely wasted time in the first place, now it wastes even less. Especially without being able to apply Sloppy butcher

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    You keep saying first hits. First hits don't down. Deep wounds is worthless now. KI is only useful if they are anywhere near you, which you wont know till you go running after that guy at the edge that's gonna get away anyway. All the perks getting ripped from them got rid of any real impact they had.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    it wastes everyone's time and makes no impact. "Boring" and "Annoying"

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507

    Well, compare Legion to Wraith. In the time it takes Wraith to decloak, get a first hit, cloak again, find another survivor and get another hit on them, the first survivor could have already finished healing. That isn't the case for Legion. In the time it takes you to get two hits on two survivors, the first survivor will be close to finishing the process of Mending, and won't have started healing yet.

    Also, there isn't really a shortage of high-tier perks that Legion can do well with. So I don't think the loss of Sloppy Butcher would be enough to kill them (Especially considering they can now apply a similar effect with an add-on). Spirit Fury-Enduring, Monitor and Abuse, Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, BBQ & Chili, etc.. I think there are still plenty of good options for Legion builds.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535
    edited December 2019

    But with Wraith you uncloak and hit, then chase. You play them utterly differently.

    Any on hit effect perk no longer works on Feral Frenzy. Go look them up. It's things like STBFL. Also yay, more add-on dependency is what I want in my Killers.

  • DWolfAlphaDWolfAlpha Member Posts: 823

    I get annoying. But personally, it's moreso for the survivors. I don't think it's boring to keep slapping the survivors around. They get minimal bp for mending, and you rack up hits. I suppose we have different desires with regard to this game.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Yeah, i'd like to do well and enjoy a Killer I like.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507
    edited December 2019

    For the sake of comparison, because Wraith is another Killer that's good at getting first hits, and bad at getting second hits. If you want to get as many first hits as possible in a short time frame, you'd pick Legion over Wraith.

    And since you were saying that there's no net gain, let's do some math, with a good scenario (4 hits), and a mediocre scenario (2 hits). With 4 hits, the survivors need to all waste 12 seconds mending, and each waste at least 32 seconds healing (Since two people need to both waste 16 seconds in order to perform a single heal). In total, the survivors each wasted 44 seconds mending and healing. So, if you manage to get 4 hits within 40 seconds or less (Which is possible to do in a normal match), then it's a net gain for you. And, of course, there's the added benefit of knowing where all of the survivors are, applying Thana stacks to all of them, and being able to chase down the last guy once the 4 second cooldown is over.

    Now, with 2 hits, we can divide the survivors' numbers by 2. So collectively, the survivors waste about 6 seconds mending, and waste 16 seconds healing. Collectively, they'd each waste 22 seconds on mending and healing. So, if you get 2 hits within 18 seconds (Which is, again, possible in a normal match), then it's a net gain for you.

    Does that make sense?

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Legion is not a Side grade of Plague. Legion is just terrible.

  • DWolfAlphaDWolfAlpha Member Posts: 823

    Yeah, I never really saw victory as requiring a 4k or even any kills. Though their lack of lethality makes it really difficult to punish toxic survivors, which just makes their taunting and bullying all the more frustrating. Even though I feel Legion is more fun than a few days ago, the things they haven't touched since the rework can still make for some infuriating moments. Survivors can still just zig zag back and forth, causing you to miss FF attacks. Even if you're in their face. At least, they can on console. The broken status effect is worthless on Legion, since no one heals to full anyway. Sure, you can apply mangled still, but with it being on a timer, really what's the point. *Sigh.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Exactly. I don't play this game to even kill one person. I want to feel like I have an impact. I'd like to have good back and forth games. This... this just shows how utterly pointless that dream is.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535
    edited December 2019

    Then we will have to agree to disagree. I mained Legion since they came out. I've seen them get broken again and again. This is just another stomp to the corpse of Legion strung up on my porch like a warning from the Mob. I'll never agree with you that they are anywhere close to better.

  • DWolfAlphaDWolfAlpha Member Posts: 823

    I wish that, instead of mangled, you could inflict hindered. That would at least help in the m1 chase to follow. Or almost anything else other than broken. Though, I guess that can help applying thanatophobia, but even that isn't much use.

  • AngryFluffyAngryFluffy Member Posts: 442

    I never understood why they connected their power to DW anyway. There are so many issues if there is a killer power, which is the same as a survivor perk (BT), who came even up with that idea in first place? I think Legion needs something individual and not a power which must also be balanced along to other perks...

    I always saw how dedicated you fought for Legion and when you got banned I really was afraid to never see you around here again. I was really glad when you were back. But I think I also can relate how you feel... And it is better to take a break from this game and maybe even the forums, until this numbness fades. Because having this "feeling" is not healthy at all...Maybe you'll find new energy or motivation when some time has passed...take your time and take care bro. You are not alone with this.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Thank you. That means more than you likely realize.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    Yeah uh so what you gonna do when there is nobody highlighting? Before you could at least apply it via a 2nd hit and have a choice, give the survivor another buff and extend the chase even longer or get out of ff. They removed that choice if i am not mistaken for some rare occasion that good survivors do group up and are unable to delta split. I don't see the buff ?

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507

    Well, that just begs the question: Why do you main them? If you don't like their playstyle and don't feel like you're having an impact, why not play a different killer? There are plenty of other killers with more lethality and different playstyles.

    But I will also have to agree to disagree, because I view the reduced mend times and the changes to perks as an insignificant loss, compared to the many buffs Legion received for Frenzy, and the fact that Button add-ons are finally useful. I have more than 20 unused Smiley Face pins in my inventory right now, just waiting for me to use them and mess with the survivors.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Because I enjoyed running around and slashing all the survivors. Cause I could connect with the Killer in a way cause of there lore. I grew up in a town alot like the one in the lore, I could see others going down that path. This path the Devs are taking with Legion just shows me how pointless it is to try and ask them anything or talk to them about anything. They don't care, so why should I? I left this game after 2016-2017 era and Legion got me back. I have a connection with this Killer and now they have been gutted. I used to feel like I could do something with them, but now... with all these nerfs and these "Buffs" that do nothing to make up for it.... there's no point. I'm glad you can still enjoy them, and I give you the blessing of the Legion on your games... but at this point, that's like calling a curse down on you more than anything. I'll give you that the new speed and all feels nice... but it in no way makes up for the negatives.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507

    Why would you ever hit a survivor twice just to apply the Blindness effect? You're giving them a free speed boost and extending the chase much longer than you have to, while still losing the Frenzy and suffering the 4 second cooldown. I can't think of a single scenario where it's worth it. Hence why I had 20+ unused Smiley Face Pins in my inventory.

    If the survivors spread out enough that KI doesn't highlight anyone else, then you say "Oh well, at least I know there aren't any other survivors around here", end the Frenzy, and continue the chase normally. Not every add-on is useful in every situation. Just ask Demogorgon or Myers. It's still better than an add-on that literally encourages you to make a misplay.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    @Monlyth

    Oh and don't underestimate clown with the few useful addon combos that he has he can actually be very good. But I doubt that many people care how to play him at all. Clown even has an instadown that is stuff that legion can only dream of.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246


    To get stacks on perks such as stbfl? Just to explain this is 3 tokens with a single survivor, you would get those tokens very fast on legion. Having 6/8 tokens on stbfl makes him way more lethal than anything you get right now in return.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 507
    edited December 2019

    Well, speaking as somebody who's seen nerfs and buffs come and go many times over the years (I was a Demonology Warlock main in WoW; I absolutely loved the fantasy, but my chosen specialization was usually the weakest, and I was often pigeonholed into playing specs I disliked. When buffs finally came for Demonology, I was happy and did quite well in my guild. I loved being the resident Warlock expert. Then they reworked Demonology. Yet... I was okay with it. It was a totally different playstyle, yet it still had everything I loved about Warlocks: summoning demons, applying debuffs, slowly whittling away your opponent's health to nothing. And I was still the resident Warlock for many months until the guild broke up), I've grown to tolerate change. Even when it's not perfect, and not exactly what I wanted. I look at the bigger picture, and I don't get fussy if the changes were an overall improvement to the character.

    Also, side note: I never used Sloppy Butcher or other M1 perks on Legion. My pre-patch build was BBQ & Chili, Ruin, Monitor and Abuse, and Thana. So this patch changed almost nothing about Legion for me personally, except the speed buffs.

    I don't really understand this argument, because survivors will usually stay injured against Legion, making STBFL's effect redundant.

  • KabuKabu Member Posts: 926

    They weren't afraid of those perks. Legion was crap even when he benefited from them. We are in agreement here. It just sucks to lose even that.


    We keep trying to make Legion work even after all these nerfs. Those perks were one of the last few things left. This patch made them speedy again and get even easier first hits but so do a lot of other killers who either do it better or can get downs easier.


    Thanks for trying and if you enjoy this iteration of Legion then awesome. I'm glad someone does.

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