I'm not saying I don't want DS in the game, I actually like the idea of a perk that helps protect against being targeted, it's just that it allows for people with DS active to hide in a locker and have uncontested invincibility, with the only counter being wasting 50 or so seconds of your time as a killer, which if you know survivors, will most likely allow them to get a significant portion of the generators done.
Just because they use DS doesn’t mean they made a bad play.
You keep bringing up the same singular scenario “Two survivors using DS one of them save” I don’t know who you’ve played against but seriously... any good killer knows that you don’t pick up someone who just went in for the save... and at least not right away. I’ve explicitly left someone on the ground only to be followed by a DC because their DS was denied.
The mere fact that they are playing risky doesn’t mean that they won or will win. A bad play is a bad play DS or not.
I had this conversation with you before and it got nowhere. As long as your views remain in the “DS is only a tunneling perk” realm we will probably never see eye to eye because that’s where a lot of your points are stemming from.
I don’t think DS is only a tunneling perk so I will use it as I see it fit to my strategy. You’re encouraged to go for somebody else you’re not forced to.
DS I can agree, is fine in most situations, but there are certain situations where nothing can be done, as I've brought up several times, lockers, hop in one with Decisive, killer either has to eat the stun and throw off his gameplay flow, leave them alone, also throwing off his gameplay flow, or wait 50 or so seconds, which also throws off his gameplay flow, this is generally the main problem with it. I can agree in more situations DS is fine. But some aren't, and we should address that.
I can agree those bandaid the problem, but they still throw off your game and can cause you to lose a game due to it, I agree they are better than waiting, but waiting is the only true counterplay that allows you to kill the survivor in the locker, which is an unfavorable option. I wanted to propose a change to make Decisive Strike less oppressive in those situations, and make it actually for anti tunneling.
Well when they're the last person in the trial, or the person who saved them is a Claudette who vanished, can we call that tunneling?
What if they're taking hits for their team when they have DS, is that tunneling?, What if they're doing gens in my face and they get in a locker when I get close, is that tunneling.
Another problem is when they pull the survivor off of a hook with DS up next to an exit gate, if I pick up the person that was just on the hook I would be tunneling correct? But if I picked up the survivor with DS, I would get stabbed, which means I was tunneling. Taking hits for team mates because you have uncontested invincibility from a pickup for the duration, I don't think the killer chasing other survivors and you running into the killer to take hits is tunneling.
I already told you I don't think DS is only an anti tunneling perk so I don't know where you got that idea from. I would have thought my sarcasm in my last post would have been more than a clear hint to that.
I said BHVR designed it to be an anti tunneling perk. I already showed you two screenshots proving this. You are the one who is only arguing that it's balanced simply because of a branding and I'm sorry but that's not how good balance works. Things that are vastly over performing with such wide impact should be put down a peg in my opinion and Decisive Strike vastly over performs.
My problem isn't what DS is "supposed to do". My problem is what DS does. It's the most game impacting perk that exists, is incredibly widely used and one of the most game changing perks in the game who's effect was balanced around a counter for it that no longer exists and on top of all of that, its effect is completely passive barring pressing the space bar once on an easy to land skill check. The perk is so game changing that its existence is a global wide buff to survivors even if nobody in the match has it equipped.
To me, that makes it imbalanced. Simple as that.
Its effect is too strong and provides too much insurance to the player for a single survivor perk that's completely passive with an effect that was buffed to balanced around a counter that no longer exists and if you are going to seriously come and argue with me that changing even changing the stun from 5 second to 4 seconds would utterly destroy the perk because it's 'perfectly balanced' the way it is when it's impacting games consistently in a way the developers themselves thought would only happen in incredibly rare occurrences and for the fact it was designed with a counter in mind to its effect, then "oh well", I guess.
Hey, I guess since we can just remove counters to perks and not readjust them afterwards, let's remove the ability to cleanse Ruin but keep the effect the same. I mean, it's balanced around being cleansed right now, but we removed the thing that countered Decisive Strike so fair's fair, right? What do you mean that would be too powerful? All you need to do is just hit great skill checks and the perk basically does nothing and you'll be fine.
This is assuming they want the perk to be garbage, DS prevents tunneling a good portion, but some times, you're not getting tunneled, and you immediately get on a generator, and when the killer comes over, you just hop into a locker, he wasn't tunneling, he was off chasing and hooking other survivors, but he still got punished for "tunneling"
And at Endgame, where they get downed outside the gate, you can't slug and then kill them, because they'd just crawl out. These ideas I proposed are to make the perk actually counter tunneling.
It seems like baby killers are complaining when its not their way. DS is fine the way it is. Leave it alone. Do like what baby killers do and slug. I hate when killers do that cause its a big disadvantage against survivors cause then killers are like taking the game hostage but what can we do its not gonna change. Id say leave DS and work on something more important.
"Outplayed" like old Spirit using her collision to bodyblock/confirm hits on survivors?
If you got hit by old Spirit, one of two things happened
1. You were not paying attention to her husk not moving
2. She tricked you into thinking she was phasing and you fell for the bait
Seriously, why do random guess scenarios only get to benefit survivors? Don't get me wrong, spirit needed some of the needs she got.. but some weren't THAT necessary. Maybe nurse would have been a better example because she got slightly gutted
Why would you want to? That does not follow the DBD strategy. When something "needs" fixed that is what you're supposed to do, just make it useless. Look at legion and nurse for examples.
Comments
Devs ready stated this is not a change they will ever make. It is too unrealistic and unreliable. That would be a Drastic nerf.
D.S. is fine imo.
I'm not saying I don't want DS in the game, I actually like the idea of a perk that helps protect against being targeted, it's just that it allows for people with DS active to hide in a locker and have uncontested invincibility, with the only counter being wasting 50 or so seconds of your time as a killer, which if you know survivors, will most likely allow them to get a significant portion of the generators done.
@Sairek
Just because they use DS doesn’t mean they made a bad play.
You keep bringing up the same singular scenario “Two survivors using DS one of them save” I don’t know who you’ve played against but seriously... any good killer knows that you don’t pick up someone who just went in for the save... and at least not right away. I’ve explicitly left someone on the ground only to be followed by a DC because their DS was denied.
The mere fact that they are playing risky doesn’t mean that they won or will win. A bad play is a bad play DS or not.
I had this conversation with you before and it got nowhere. As long as your views remain in the “DS is only a tunneling perk” realm we will probably never see eye to eye because that’s where a lot of your points are stemming from.
I don’t think DS is only a tunneling perk so I will use it as I see it fit to my strategy. You’re encouraged to go for somebody else you’re not forced to.
if they hop in a locker you can just walk away, or maybe take the stun. These are both much better than sitting still for 30+ seconds
DS I can agree, is fine in most situations, but there are certain situations where nothing can be done, as I've brought up several times, lockers, hop in one with Decisive, killer either has to eat the stun and throw off his gameplay flow, leave them alone, also throwing off his gameplay flow, or wait 50 or so seconds, which also throws off his gameplay flow, this is generally the main problem with it. I can agree in more situations DS is fine. But some aren't, and we should address that.
I can agree those bandaid the problem, but they still throw off your game and can cause you to lose a game due to it, I agree they are better than waiting, but waiting is the only true counterplay that allows you to kill the survivor in the locker, which is an unfavorable option. I wanted to propose a change to make Decisive Strike less oppressive in those situations, and make it actually for anti tunneling.
Reduce the timer on it from 60 to 40 seconds.
A locker..? Well were you tunneling them first? Then theres your answer.
Well when they're the last person in the trial, or the person who saved them is a Claudette who vanished, can we call that tunneling?
What if they're taking hits for their team when they have DS, is that tunneling?, What if they're doing gens in my face and they get in a locker when I get close, is that tunneling.
Well yeah..
Technically.
And jumping off the hook as the last survivor is unlikely.
And D.S. doesn't activate in E.G.C that often. I would know, I run it. Lol.
Plus Claudettes... who vanish kinda want attention in the E.G.C sometimes...
Another problem is when they pull the survivor off of a hook with DS up next to an exit gate, if I pick up the person that was just on the hook I would be tunneling correct? But if I picked up the survivor with DS, I would get stabbed, which means I was tunneling. Taking hits for team mates because you have uncontested invincibility from a pickup for the duration, I don't think the killer chasing other survivors and you running into the killer to take hits is tunneling.
I already told you I don't think DS is only an anti tunneling perk so I don't know where you got that idea from. I would have thought my sarcasm in my last post would have been more than a clear hint to that.
I said BHVR designed it to be an anti tunneling perk. I already showed you two screenshots proving this. You are the one who is only arguing that it's balanced simply because of a branding and I'm sorry but that's not how good balance works. Things that are vastly over performing with such wide impact should be put down a peg in my opinion and Decisive Strike vastly over performs.
My problem isn't what DS is "supposed to do". My problem is what DS does. It's the most game impacting perk that exists, is incredibly widely used and one of the most game changing perks in the game who's effect was balanced around a counter for it that no longer exists and on top of all of that, its effect is completely passive barring pressing the space bar once on an easy to land skill check. The perk is so game changing that its existence is a global wide buff to survivors even if nobody in the match has it equipped.
To me, that makes it imbalanced. Simple as that.
Its effect is too strong and provides too much insurance to the player for a single survivor perk that's completely passive with an effect that was buffed to balanced around a counter that no longer exists and if you are going to seriously come and argue with me that changing even changing the stun from 5 second to 4 seconds would utterly destroy the perk because it's 'perfectly balanced' the way it is when it's impacting games consistently in a way the developers themselves thought would only happen in incredibly rare occurrences and for the fact it was designed with a counter in mind to its effect, then "oh well", I guess.
Hey, I guess since we can just remove counters to perks and not readjust them afterwards, let's remove the ability to cleanse Ruin but keep the effect the same. I mean, it's balanced around being cleansed right now, but we removed the thing that countered Decisive Strike so fair's fair, right? What do you mean that would be too powerful? All you need to do is just hit great skill checks and the perk basically does nothing and you'll be fine.
Perfectly balanced perk, amiright? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Keep it as is but make it not go down during a chase and instantly deactivate if another survivor is hooked.
new decisive strike needs a nerf. make it deactivite after someone else has been hooked at least. or bring back juggling.
Halve its duration make it not tick down during a chase or while slugged.
ez pz
No need to fix something that isn't broken.
I never complained about it but these suggestions are actually pretty good.
It's still too strong.
Should every survivor perk be garbage? It helps prevent being tunneled. It has a 60s cool down, Slug if you don't want to get hit with it.
Cut the timer down to 30 secs maximum.
Unproc upon another player getting hooked unless you're down.
Allow multiple procs per game.
If killer has mori, find a locker.
interesting Ideas.
This is assuming they want the perk to be garbage, DS prevents tunneling a good portion, but some times, you're not getting tunneled, and you immediately get on a generator, and when the killer comes over, you just hop into a locker, he wasn't tunneling, he was off chasing and hooking other survivors, but he still got punished for "tunneling"
And at Endgame, where they get downed outside the gate, you can't slug and then kill them, because they'd just crawl out. These ideas I proposed are to make the perk actually counter tunneling.
How can survivors know if a killer has NOED, etc
Play as if they do. Don't tunnel! Or slug if you feel you have to tunnel!
It seems like baby killers are complaining when its not their way. DS is fine the way it is. Leave it alone. Do like what baby killers do and slug. I hate when killers do that cause its a big disadvantage against survivors cause then killers are like taking the game hostage but what can we do its not gonna change. Id say leave DS and work on something more important.
"Outplayed" like old Spirit using her collision to bodyblock/confirm hits on survivors?
If you got hit by old Spirit, one of two things happened
1. You were not paying attention to her husk not moving
2. She tricked you into thinking she was phasing and you fell for the bait
Seriously, why do random guess scenarios only get to benefit survivors? Don't get me wrong, spirit needed some of the needs she got.. but some weren't THAT necessary. Maybe nurse would have been a better example because she got slightly gutted
Kid, you're crying over Totems. You need all the crutch scenarios you can get, apparently
Why would you want to? That does not follow the DBD strategy. When something "needs" fixed that is what you're supposed to do, just make it useless. Look at legion and nurse for examples.
failing several times in a row but only escaping because you had a perk equipped that rewards failure is hardly outplaying anyone
As a killer main myself I personally think DS is fine and fair as is,most of the time I attack a rescuer and not the previously hooked survivor anyway
DS is fine and doesn't need to be fixed.
Adrenaline on the other hand...