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Proof that the Devs are not Survivor sided



  • AsePlayerAsePlayer Member Posts: 939

    Hardcore survivor bias is equally as stupid as hardcore killer bias.

  • SairekSairek Member Posts: 3,721

    It doesn't matter if we're on the "same side" (I detest "sides" in this game, killers being nerfed can still negatively effect survivor fun if games are too easy or end too fast, as an example).

    I don't agree that we should be concentrating on nerf impact, or keeping score, or anything like that. We should just be balancing the game, and not making this yet another "survivor versus killer" issue. I just don't see any value at all from it, and it comes across as incredibly nit picky to me.

    @Peppa_Pigsaw I'm very sorry if I came across as offensive in any way, though. I don't mean anything personal by it, sincerely. I get much more passionate about things, especially games I love to play, very easily.

  • Peppa_PigsawPeppa_Pigsaw Member Posts: 81

    Nah I'm the same way fam you're good.

    I learned a long time ago not to take forums too seriously, it just leads to a lot of unnecessary stress. Sorry if I appeared the same way to you. <3

  • SurvivorsAreOpSurvivorsAreOp Member Posts: 5

    Dude the hatch closing is a good thing. No one wants to have a hatch stand off that lasts all day and egc was to prevent survivors t bagging at exit gate for as long as they wanted to. Ds is still pretty good so idk what you're complaining about and there's definitely a problem with map designs if there's tons of safe pallets and infinites. Bloodlust is kind of a weird one cause slow killers definitely need it and entity blocker is definitely needed cause there's no way a survivor vaulting a window as many times as they want is balanced.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 1,796

    @TutorialEntity the OP's entire point was things have moved fairly consistently towards a more balanced game. Have the devs made poor choices along the way? Of course. MoM was a terrible idea. The Ruin nerf is another example. But you can't disregard the progress that has been made. There have been so many things added over the years to fix early mistakes. The overall direction they've taken proves they aren't survivor biased. Otherwise the vast improvements they've made would never have happened.


    ROFL,made a same subject forum yesterday,"the devs don't listen" WRONG

    XD same idea

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 2,203

    Yes. Just like survivor nerfs are killer buffs by definition. That is part of the OP's point. There have been many survivor nerfs over the years. OP even gave some examples. By definition, those are killer buffs. The point the OP was making that you failed to understand is that regardless of a few recent killer nerfs, killers are far better off today than they were a year or two ago. This is 100% true.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 1,796

    I would have thought fixing game breaking issues like infinite loops would be considered a big improvement.

  • ElvenmonkElvenmonk Member Posts: 248

    As a survivor main , yeah, that was messed up.

    Like if you want to change stuff make it sound good for that side.

    "We reworked doctor to fix some design issues that no one found fun and are trying to get him ready into a useable state"

    That is neutral and it addressed that both sides hated him

    Ruin i got no clue other then "testing a rework of ruin for after gen rushing has been worked on"

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 2,203

    Sure. Healing times were substantially increased for survivors. That is an unequivocal survivor nerf and killer buff. The End Game Collapse (EGC) massively favors the killer by sacrificing survivors in a short amount of time once the hatch is closed. Closing the hatch is also a massive killer buff and survivor nerf.

    Decisive strike can no longer be used before a survivor is hooked. Lots of pallets and too safe loops have been removed which are all survivor nerfs and thus killer buffs. The killer pick up animation is faster which is a direct killer buff and survivor nerf since it his harder to blind the killer or pallet stun the killer since they have less time to get into position.

  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,632


    The hatch was severely survivor sided for almost 3 years. Stop

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 1,733
    edited January 14

    They don't make only survivor sided changes, but you can't ignore that the last patch notes were incredibly survivor biased and that was a hard hit for many killer players. Plus, devs didn't even said something like : "We nerf Ruin now, but we'll keep monitoring gen speeds, to see if they need changes as well" or "We are gonna reduce some maps in size, so patrolling gens can actually be a thing". They just threw this Ruin nerf and then call it a day.

    Post edited by Marcus on
  • GaunterODimmGaunterODimm Member Posts: 70

    I already played enough as both Survivor then killer and I concluded that it's bonkers so what now? Majority of my playtime with this game is on Survivor and I can tell you that this is survivor sided. Unless you're playing a mobility killer which most killers aren't then Ruin is flat out useless for them.

    They said none of that reasoning in the patch notes, What are you on about? In fact they said that perk provides very little risk on behalf of the killer lmfao. Stop lying.

    Oh yeah it was so inconsistent that now everyone can just bring a tool box and go nuts. Bravo, Bhvr.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 564

    We'll see the inevitable Toolbox nerf, and one that I have asked for before. And what am I lying about?

    I can't test on the PTB, so I can't lie about it's effectiveness.

    Mobility killers also already rule the game, so that argument is lessened.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 231

    Alright, you want evidence of it? Look no further than the recent patch notes in the wording, and lack of foresight on how removing a critical perk without any adjustments to the gens completely obliterated the early game and shifted the entire killer loadout to late game. Right now the only killers that have any sort of meaningful pressure are those with high mobility, meaning 3 killers total, are your only shot at actually getting any semblance of pressure established early game. Those changes were implemented with only the survivor in mind, without any real thought, as usual, of the QOL of the killer side of the game.

  • GaunterODimmGaunterODimm Member Posts: 70
    edited January 14

    Exactly why the update is bonkers. Nerfing Ruin but still failing to address the issue with gen speed and maps? It's a mistimed update. You don't do an update this stupid and without thinking why this particular perk is used a lot and just go "Oh just wait for the toolbox nerf".

    You said this nonsense "The main things that they were topping off is that it was OP against lower rank players, near useless at higher ranks and they wanted to change it to be more consistent in ALL ranks." When the developers never mentioned this as one of the core reason to nerfing Ruin and in fact the whole post begs to differ. There's a limit to faking argument points, mate.

    "Mobility killers also already rule the game, so that argument is lessened." So that invalids the whole argument? Hey guys just use Billy 24/7 don't use any other killers!

    What a joke.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 564

    Nurse, Billy, (to an extent) Demagorgon and I never said invalidates.

    You also have Myers and Ghostface in top ranks, who have instant downs.

    The toolbox or generator nerf will soon follow with Ruin falling out.

    And they did mention the consistency thing, across the forums. If you ever actually looked.

    Calm your farm. It's not the end of the world, and it's just a game.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    Guys. 1 bad update isn't enough to overturn years of consistent (albeit very slow) improvement.

    Even several wouldn't be enough.

    We get that the devs suck at communication for the most part. But it's unfair to turn on them just because they have flaws sometimes, and the whole "oh they've shown their true colors now" thing is just total BS.

    We get it, they should word their things better and address [BAD WORD] faster. However if you are going to complain at least keep it to what is actually true. The devs don't hate you and they do (eventually) get to solving whatever problems get found with the game.

    Their direct perk buffs have been great. EGC was (mostly) great. Oni once they fix his flick is cool. New Doctor is really cool and it sounds like he's being buffed after the PTB.

    Even new Ruin is still a good perk, even if it obviously won't compare to current Ruin (lets be honest nothing really can compare to current Ruin) and now that Peanits has explained more about why Ruin is being changed like this it even seems like it could be good in the long run.

    Basically the idea (according to Peanits) is that by removing Ruin the devs can see what the game looks like without it with a much bigger sample size. Obviously we (as players) expect to see gen rushing be a problem. If this is the case then the Devs should expect to see this and know the exact magnitude of the problem thus letting them address it properly with a non-bandaid basekit fix. However if they tried to address it immediately, then Ruin masking the issue makes it extremely difficult to implement the proper solution.

    Should they have said all of that in the dev update? Totally. But if you don't get blinded by poor details and look at the big picture you will see that the devs genuinely are trying to fix the games problems.

    In terms of actually succeeding they aren't 100%. But that's not the point. Biased devs wouldn't try to fix these kinds of issues at all.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 564

    THANK YOU! Someone finally said it all!

    I felt like I was the only one trying to say that there is more to this problem than one perk, and that we should give it a little time.

  • GaunterODimmGaunterODimm Member Posts: 70

    Oh yeah 'Top rank' as if that matters when it's polluted with potatoes. I'm going by their own words in the dev post which shown zero signs that it was because it was inconsistent. Just because developers are doing damage control in the forums so sheeps can nod their head mindlessly doesn't mean that's what they wanted initially.

    I am calm, I've been playing matches here and there while replying. I don't mince words, not a sign of me losing my cool.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 3,071

    Regarding Legion:

    Legion was never a good Killer to begin with. Even in his first appearance, he was simply bad. Yes, his power was lethal. But for what price? Nobody enjoyed playing against Legion. There was exactly no Skill involved, because you can either cheese or simply can down people without Counterplay. Of course, this would be the same with Nurse, BUT Nurse has insane amount of mobility. Legion not. So while you can down a single Survivor 100%, you will lose the game because of it. So it is not like Legion was a Top Tier Killer, most people said that he was one of the weakest Killers, and he was and still is.


    Thanks for this Thread, you have a lot of valid points. Way more than other people. Some people still bring the Depip-Squad up, when talking about Balance, which is simply stupid, because a lot of things that made this "project" even possible dont exist anymore. It is simply outdated and most likely not repeatable during this time.

    The Devs are not survivor-biased. The only mistake they did with the Ruin Announcement was the way of presenting it, but honestly, I dont know any way of presenting it in another way. Because you cannot simply say that the Perk is too powerful because used to often. This would not make sense. Also you cannot say that other things might or will follow after the Ruin Rework, because if nothing happens, because the Trial Times will be fine afterwards, people will stick to this point and ask about it over and over again. Because, what is undenieable: Even if they would brought up a second Objective or increased Gentimes, people would still use Ruin. Because, you know, what worked in brown Ranks will work in Red Ranks, sure about that. This is why people are upset about DS - it does not work for them to tunnel and hook someone. So DS is the problem and not their mentality that it should be super-easy to take one Survivor out of the game, shifting it to a easy 3v1.

    I also feel that a lot of Content Creators can shift that in one way or the other. Like, regarding Gens, there are quite a lot of people which are either Mains or play both sides, but clearly say that "if you get genrushed, you did not put up enough pressure". This is 100% correct and does not have anything to do with Ruin. This also does not mean that a Killer is bad, it just does mean that he was not able to put enough pressure. This can have multiple reasons - Survivors were just better would be one. Or simply the Map, it is a super-huge Map. Or you get on Cowshed where a lot of strong Tiles can spawn back to back. Or, the newest addition: You are at a much lower Rank than the Survivors, where it is impossible to pressure them, because they are on a different Skill Level.

    Other Content Creators however are terribly one-sided and they are also more vocal. Like tru3ta1ent, he is clearly Killer-sided, hiding this behind "I play both sides". All of his arguments can be countered by himself, like he claims that people say that when a Killer loses that the Killer player was bad and not that Survivors are too strong. However, when he loses as Survivor, the Survivors were bad, but no word about the Killer being good here. Or some arguments are simply dumb - like the Balanced Landing Nerf, was normalization to him. But when a solid Object on a Map gets its collision (which it should have in the first place) so that Huntress cannot throw through it, it is a clear Killer Nerf. Whoever follows his opinions should really watch other Content Creators first and then think about it.

    Anyway, aside from Content Creators:

    I feel that players should trust the Devs. They know far more about the game and its development than 99% of the playerbase (including me and their Fog Whisperers, I dont want to exclude me from that). DBD is a great game, when it comes to visual appearance and gameplay. The Balance might not be 100% there, but it is more balanced than it ever was. And the Bugs, of course. But I have a lot of fun playing this game, and people who complain will also have it - otherwise they would just leave instead of constantly coming back to it. And even if the Devs dont play a lot of DBD or are not good at it - sure they are not good at the game. As a Developer, you need to know what is going on but not being good at the game. Because instead of playing it, you are developing it. A Dev will never be as good as a Fog Whisperer, who creates content for DBD, sometimes even for a living. And honestly, if I would work on DBD as a fulltime Job, when I come home, I most likely dont want to spend my time with DBD as much as I am doing that know (like, working in a restaurant as a cook, you will probably not eat there and rather grab a Burger from McDonalds, which will be worse and more unhealthy, but is different from what you are doing the whole day).

    Personally, I will exclude myself from Ruin Discussions until it is live and people have tested it. It is kinda draining to tell the same thing over and over again, because I have some points which are simply true, because I am playing Killer myself in higher Ranks, and I am NOT good at playing Killer in my opinion. I am pretty sure that many Killers on this Forum will and are perfoming better than me and they will still do that without Ruin. But maybe people will experience the same as I did, when stopping to run Ruin - that it feels more relaxed, because you dont have to care for 7 Gens, 4 Survivors AND a Totem and you dont need to feel ultra-pressured when its gone.

    So yeah, thank you for this Thread. Nice to see that Forum Users put some thoughts in it. Sadly you will be demolished here, but you are absolutely correct with what you are saying.

  • XergeXerge Member Posts: 817

    I would like to read your thoughts on the new ruin after it goes live first.

    I'm already running surveillance on almost every killer to get used to it.

  • AbsolutelyAmelAbsolutelyAmel Member Posts: 56

    Jfc have you not read the update log? It only talks about the benefits for survivors and that the killer has to do more etc. If that is not biased then you should get some glasses.

    I play both and can say that it is a very survivor favoured game no matter how you twist and turn it. There is no way with how the game works to make it balanced.

  • SairekSairek Member Posts: 3,721

    Well on the PTB, I tried playing Myers with the new Ruin and my gens got done in less than 5 minutes, and my Ruin lasting the entire game and getting a pretty quick tier 3.

    Will see if it goes live of course, but my first impressions were "wow, this sucks", lol.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    Yes the game is still Survivor favored. The claim is that the Devs are not Survivor favoried and thus the game being Survivor favored is mostly due to huge initial mistakes rather than malicious intent.

    I do however think the game is possible to balance, but that doing so properly is extremely difficult, hence it taking so many years.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 564

    Ok, then. Let's see YOU code an online game. Let's see YOU try to appease 2 groups of people who only stand on one of the two sides of your very specific style of game, and the people in between. You do all that, and deal with constant belittlement because one side doesn't feel appreciated enough.

    It's not called being a sheep, it's called being a decent human being and using empathy!

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 1,417

    Gamebreaking bugs should have the priority. Totally survivor bias right?

    They also said multiple times that her basekit would have some changes and please show me where they insulted people.

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