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Proof that the Devs are not Survivor sided



  • AdelooAdeloo Member Posts: 279

    It's time to stop the THEM vs US mentality.

    You are not better than them in that case.

    I play both sides equally and i'm gonna give you a non-biased opinion :

    "Hatch couldn't be closed. EGC didn't exist."

    This was necessary. It's not something you should put in survivor NERF, as it was creating hostage situation that wasn't healthy at all for the game. As survivor i would just run to the killer and let him/her kill me. As killer i would just wait in a corner to let the survivor find it or if i find the survivor before, i would give him the hatch or the hook depending how the game went.

    "DS worked on first down"

    Yus it worked on first down but you were forced to use it or have to wiggle to trigger it. I don't consider the DS change as a nerf but more as a buff, as all survivors have the same effect, they can choose when to use it and the killer cannot juggle them anymore.

    "More safe pallets"

    Depends on the map really. Take Ormont, it's basically a survivor sided map because of it's size and the really safe pallets, then you have Hawkins that is normal size, with a lot of pallets which are mostly unsafe.

    "BL infinites and instant heals allowed for crazy long chases"

    Balanced Landing "nerf" was necessary as it was the only exhaustion perk with a passive. It just got tweaked to be on the same ground as the others.

    As for instant heals, like hatch they weren't healthy at all, as they were usually used to be toxic toward the killer and could be use without thinking and reward a survivor for making a mistake (like all the second chance perk (DS, DH, Unbreakable,etc))

  • helix43helix43 Member Posts: 30

    It isn't just one bad update though, it's been continuous killer nerfs for the past 5 months. It's gotten to the point where I don't look forward to each update, because it comes with some unnecessary nerfs to killers that'll add more stress to playing them. I've even stopped buying new dlc now because the devs gut every new killer to low tier.

  • AdelooAdeloo Member Posts: 279

    I forgot to mention this in my last post.

    I really, really love this game (probably my favorite), i play a lot and draw a lot of fanarts.

    I play both sides equally at red ranks, and saw the game gradually becoming more balanced.

    But the feedback about the Hex: Ruin change didn't surprise me. I don't use Ruin for 3 weeks now and it actually let me see two things : it's one less thing to worry about but it's also more frustrating to play as killer than it use to be. As Trapper now i'm used to see 2 gens popped while i'm placing my traps or even crossed the map when i play on Ormont or Red Forest Realm. It's less frustrating for the early game, but once you caught and hook a survivor, you just need to start tryharding to even get 4 stacks of BBQ ( which is the way i win imo ) I saw myself forced to slug in order to apply pressure, or to stay closer to the hook than. When there is 4 survivors and no perk to slow the early game, it requires too much effort to pressure all the survivors at once, forcing you as a killer to tunnel/down a survivor in order to gain time, end a chase to come back to the hook, etc.

    What probably made me realized the game was in favor of survivor at this time was the Patch Notes. It clearly is stated that the balance is made around new players and especially new survivors. That a new survivor would ruin the progress that a veteran player made on a gen (which just describe rank 1 survivor playing with their r20 friends, which shouldn't be possible in the frist place) That 80% killers use Ruin in red ranks but doesn't address the reason why. It's definitly not about an Emblem but more about not playing 5 minutes games and also countering "bad" map design, like huge maps.

    I previously said i didn't use Ruin for 3 weeks, and during those weeks i tried different killers

    High mobility killers with good map pressure are not affected at all or rarely :

    • Wraith struggle a little as he isn't the strongest killer but still can apply good map pressure when using Surveillance, Nurse's , BBQ and Sloppy Butcher
    • Freddy is the master of map pressure, he might be a weaker hunter but his teleport make him really strong
    • Spirit is just the pressure queen when it comes to chases and interrupting gens but she lacks somemap pressure on larger maps

    Low mobility killers and setting killers suffers in early game :

    • Trapper setting traps usually takes 1-2 gens but he makes it up if his traps are good.
    • Clown is literrally a Clown with no pressure at all (and definitly should get a buff or a rework)
    • Oni suffers even more than Trapper, because he has nothing to end a chase quicker and if the survivors are good loopers/mindgamers he will not get his power up more than 1 per game. But if he managed to get his power, he can turn the tables in his favor really quickly
    • Demogorgon is basically a weaker Freddy, as his teleportation cooldown is just too long and his shred attack is only useful in some kind of jungle gym and situations.
    • Pig suffers from RNG just like Trapper (how easily survivors get off traps from killer perspective while when i play survivor i always have to search the last box or even can't struggle out a beartrap after 15 tries...) but also map pressure as she has nothing to stop the progress of a gen on the other side of the map.
    • Plague is exactly like Oni besides the power to travel the map. She just a good hunter when the survivor is broken but she has nothing to stop the gen repair.

    There is the rest of the killers that i didn't test (Hag, Leatherface,Doctor,Legion) or don't play (Nurse , Billy, Ghostface, Huntress, Myers)

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    Necessary nerfs are only different from non-neccessary nerfs in terms of impact and quality.

    A nerf being necessary is not a counter argument to a nerf being a nerf.

  • AdelooAdeloo Member Posts: 279

    @NuclearBurrito and i never said it was.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 434

    Last I saw the survivor nerfs were 2x longer than killer nerfs.

    Nice try

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 434

    1 = a buff

    -1 equals a nerf

    A graph showing the amount of points each side have got. The lower the bar the lesser amount of points. Survivors are blue and killers are orange. This graph takes buffs and nerfs into account.

    Clearly you can see which one has been nerfed more

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,276

    Good post. Survivors have definitely been nerfed more, and killers have definitely been buffed more. This visual representation of it is fantastic IMO.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 1,686

    If this graph was up to date, it'd count nurse rework as 1...

    Just comparing the quantity of tiny changes doesnt really work.

    Yes yes. Killer bias etc.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 434

    This is one I've made in the past since the mid chapter that introduced Hallowed Blight. I haven't made one in a while

    But I can simply keep it brief.

    2019 nerfs for survivor:

    Fast vault nerfs

    MoM nerf (deserved)

    BL nerf (meh)

    Insta heal rework (deserved)


    2019 nerfs for killers:

    Legion update

    Nurse Update

    Oni change ( >( )

    2019 buffs for survivors:

    Pallets now spawn 8m on average from each other

    2019 buffs for killers:


    GF update

    Demo change

    There's much more that I can't think of from the top of my head atm.

    I'll let you know when I find more but still just looking at this list tells you that survivors are still being nerfed more and more. The devs are clearly not survivor sided

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 231

    *Counting EGC as a nerf*

    Found the guy that doesn't understand the difference between a nerf and a gameplay overhaul. It was a nerf to both sides.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    The EGC can be broken down into a series of individual gameplay tweaks, all of which can be evaluated in terms of buffs and nerfs.

    The collapse itself is unequivocally a Killer buff.

    Hatch closing is a big buff

    Killer being able to open the game is a very small buff (due to Bloodwarden)

    Killer not being able to hatch grab is a nerf when a Key exists and irrelevant otherwise

    Hatch spawning with 4 or 5 gens is a Killer nerf

    Overall a significant Killer buff.

  • CarpemortumCarpemortum Member Posts: 3,040
    edited January 15

    Your first point, endgame and hatch, is not a killer buff.

    That's more about ending standoffs and holding the game hostage, ON BOTH SIDES, not as a help to killers.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 434

    Ok buddy. I didn't know that a gameplay overhaul could not be deemed as an overall nerf.

    Because that is exactly what EGC is. The only benefit survivors got was the killer not being able to grab from hatch escapes anymore. If you're telling me that killers closing the hatch and a 2 min timer before instant death regardless of what hook stage you're on isn't a survivor nerf then I don't know what to tell you

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    That's WHY there was a buff. The impact is what makes something a buff or not

  • Master_Bad_GuyMaster_Bad_Guy Member Posts: 99

    I agree 100%. Everyone who is dissatisfied with the changes simply loves to win easily, and does not like the struggle for victory.

  • T2KT2K Member Posts: 471

    I think doing this took a lot of effort.

    But honestly if you want to divide survivor and killer even more, thats the way to go. Breaking down these things into points without any meaning makes no sense for me. You even had things in there like "killer perks buff", like whats that? And how did you seperate killerbuff from survivor nerf and vice versa?

    I think if you want it for a personal overview or to keep track of changes for yourself its fine. But I wouldnt recommend putting this in any kind of discussion in the forum.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 434

    Well it doesn't really need a meaning does it? If several perks have been changed or buffed to become stronger in any way shape or form then it's easier to just state it.

    Many of them don't need explaining at all. These are literally the changes that have happened over the years. These aren't my opinions...

  • T2KT2K Member Posts: 471

    It depends on what you want to do with your papers. So why did you list several perk changes under one point?

    I think just a list with changes would be better. You could also seperate the changes into categories.

    Well its clearly influenced by your opinion by distributing point.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 231
  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 231

    And popping that hatch closed activates end game perks like Adrenaline. The only way you can consider it a nerf is if you considered standing at the hatch for 3 hours intended gameplay meaning you not only have a disingenuous list, but also have no idea what to actually consider a nerf.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    The alternative to closing the hatch and giving them adrenaline is them just escaping or a hatch standoff with them probably still escaping, so it's a buff.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 231

    Not even a buff, it's just a straight side grade that made for better flow instead of me standing on hatch for 3 hours until the survivor got bored and gave up

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,022

    No, it's a direct buff. Now you can force a win, since in theory they can wait until the end of time making it a true 50/50 with the standoff scenario.

    The Hatch close scenario is significantly better odds.

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