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Hex: Ruin - what it was, what it is, and where do we go from here?

I posted this in another thread, 'What WOULD make you be ok with the ruin rework?' (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119335/what-would-make-you-be-ok-with-the-ruin-rework/p1), but wanted to gather more ideas and suggestions on the topic, as well as keep the discussion on Hex: Ruin going (since the other thread died), and here we are at this thread.

"This will come off as long-winded, but rather than make a suggestion with no context, that gets laughed out of the forums for others not understanding the underlying assumptions/context, I'd rather provide a background/basis for any assumptions that I work off of. Here goes:

What would make me okay with the Ruin 'rework' (nerf nuke)?

Getting something comparable in its place. Hex: Ruin, as it was, was a perk to extend early-game.

Why does/did early-game need to be extended?

Because even the most braindead survivors can hold m1 on a generator for 80 seconds, and since the killer can only chase one survivor at a time, the 3 survivors not being chased can all get on separate generators within 20s of match start, having their generators completed within 100s of match start, without fear of being interrupted. Any survivor worth their salt can lead a killer around on a lengthy chase with all the map assets that are intact at the start of the match. It's not about winning the chase or not getting caught - it's about wasting the killer's time.

At this point (100s into a match), there are 3 unharmed survivors with the 4th either being chased or hooked, with 2 gens left. Since the killer can only chase potentially one of those 3 unharmed survivors, the other two can either sacrifice the hooked survivor (or repair more gens without such a dilemma if the first chase is still going, assuming that this takes an additional 110 seconds, 30s to find a gen and another 80 to finish it) to have a free guarantee at repairing both remaining generators, or hook save with one survivor in limbo and the other being guaranteed safety on a generator and repeat the process for the final generator.

This results in the match being over in 210-300 seconds, under 4 or 5 minutes, with 2-3 total chases, and 3-4 escapes. For setup killers such as Hag, Trapper, Demogorgon, Oni, and Myers, this is not enough time to set up their abilities enough to use them for map pressure (and if they did/could take the time to set up, they would surely lose by default). For mid-tier killers such as Freddy, Ghostface, Pig, and Wraith; low-tier killers such as Clown, Leatherface, Doctor, Legion, and Plague, respectively, this spells their doom. This is why the high-rank meta ignores them, generally. It's why Spirit, Nurse, Hillbilly, and Huntress reign at the top - because with a combination of luck and skill, they can win chases quickly, allowing them time with which to exert map pressure in early-game. Keep in mind that I'm talking about default kits with low-grade through decent add-ons, not some of the one-off high-tier add-on combos that make certain killers far more viable than their standard kit normally permits.

So, let's talk about Hex: Ruin itself: what it did, what that spelled out for gameplay, and why it was used to the extent that it was.

Let's dispel the notion that Hex: Ruin was overpowered, while introducing it. It was a Hex perk (which can be removed by holding m1 for 14 seconds on the associated totem) that gave a small, non-threatening punishment to hitting good skill checks (7 seconds of repair progress (3 seconds of making the generator unrepairable, as well as 5% progress which is another 4 seconds)), as well as removing the additional progress from great skill checks.

In regards to gameplay, this means that if a survivor hit great skill checks, or had few to no skill checks appear at all, then Hex: Ruin would have no effect on their repair progress. Only if the survivor both had skill checks appear at all, and hit good skill checks, would it affect their repair progress. If they could not handle hitting great skill checks, they could disable the associated totem or tap the generator to completion.

This perk was incredibly widespread because survivor is braindead easy to the point where most survivors deemed hitting skillchecks as a mechanic that they did not need to improve at (Of course, there were those of us who would use (http://www.mistersyms.com/tools/gitgud/) between matches to actually improve at the game, but we were apparently few and far between. Skill checks used to be much harder, too, as you'll see if you use that git gud skillcheck simulator). As a result, survivors of all ranks had their generator repair progress slowed down by this perk, to the point where more survivors than not decided it was a better idea to gen tap to avoid dealing with Hex: Ruin, rather than learning how to power through it. Since gen tapping is also slower than normal repairing, Hex: Ruin had still accomplished its purpose in the early-game of matches - slowing down generators. Specifically, it kept 3 generators from being completed in the first 100 seconds of the match.

Traditionally, it has been held that Hex: Ruin is a mandatory killer perk. I both agree, and disagree with this. Some killers are powerful enough to not require it, and those are the killers that are commonly seen to be successful against the better survivors. The weaker killers, on the other hand... they need a helping hand, and the one that reached out to them is called 'Hex: Ruin'.

Fast forward a bit of time, and Corrupt Intervention is released with The Plague. It prevents the 3 generators farthest from the killer from being repaired for the first 100 seconds of the match. This doubles as a radar for the areas in which survivors are likely to spawn, for inexperienced killers. This could have replaced or been interchangeable with Hex: Ruin, if not for one simple fact - survivors could work on generators closer to where the killer spawned. All Corrupt Intervention brought to the table was 30 extra seconds to the early-game phase of the match, since the killer can only chase one survivor at a time, and they still face the same scenario, only slightly closer to where the killer spawned. As such, it sank mostly into obscurity. It is occasionally useful on the Pig, however, as it can sometimes buy her enough time to start putting RBT's on survivors. Not that many Pigs run it, when Hex: Ruin is a superior alternative.

Fast forward a bit farther, and Ghostface's release brings Thrilling Tremors into DbD. It's a perk that works as a radar and doubles as generator repair prevention. While it's handicapped by its cooldown and requirement for a survivor to be picked up (requiring the killer to already win a chase, and in the sequence I described earlier, it's almost impossible for some killers to win a chase early enough for this perk to be useful at all), it's also a shame that it is only useful on killers that can end chases quickly and have enough mobility to arrive at non-highlighted generators near-immediately (since survivors can move away from non-highlighted generators). This perk brings the Nightmare onto the high-rank scene, being able to teleport to generators that are currently being worked on. In that sense, it is a semi-potent alternative to Hex: Ruin for the Nightmare, which he requires, since his main mobility is locked behind a cooldown at the start of the match.

Now we have Freddy (partially), Hillbilly, Nurse, Huntress (if they lived the Navy Seal copypasta and are a competent sniper), and Spirit, who do not necessarily require Hex: Ruin to be able to have a chance against survivors in the first 100 seconds of a match.

No, it's not the size of the maps that are the main issue, currently. The only noticeable part of maps that affect the better killers' performance, is whether it is mainly an indoor (close-quarters) or outdoor (long sight lanes) map. To avoid being inconvenienced by large maps, killer players already limit themselves to specific killers, because it's not worth the frustration of moving at the speed of a tortoise (4.6 [or less] metres/second) across a map 150 metres across. But that's a problem with killer diversity, and has nothing to do with performance in general in early-game for the better killer choices (as they already have better mobility), which is where Hex: Ruin came into play. Remember, if the maps are reduced in size, then perks such as BBQ & Chili and Knockout (Knockout has already been made useless by SWF, but whoever is reading this gets the point, I'd wager) become less useful. As such, smaller maps are not necessarily better.

So, it becomes clear that the alternative to reducing map size, is making the worse killers have better mobility, chase presence, and/or map presence. This could be done through improving some killers' kits, and/or through multiple perks that would be as useful as Hex: Ruin, without stacking, so as to be interchangeable and promote build diversity.

Killer power examples:

-the Trapper's traps could spawn armed and in more convenient/camouflaged locations. After all, it's supposed to be the killer's home court.

-when the Wraith rings the Wailing bell, all survivors hear ringing for X seconds, making them unable to hear skillchecks or terror radius.

-in a match against Leatherface, survivors would hear Texas Chainsaw Massacre-related sounds that would throw them off.

-in a match against Leatherface, survivors could come across bodies (perhaps of duplicates of themselves) that have been badly mangled by chainsaws, giving them a 'Fear' status that could affect their ability to do much of anything.

-the Plague could be able to do certain actions to 'corrupt herself' and skip the requirement of having a survivor cleanse themselves to access Corrupt Purge, for more chase presence.

-the Plague could use Vile Purge out of the other end for increased speed around the map by propulsion from behind. Yes, this is more of a meme idea than a serious one.

-the Plague could use an alternate version of the usual spit, where she spits out an explosive ball of Vile/Corrupt mess that detonates and affects all survivors within range.

-the Legion could be able to down injured survivors with [multiple] hits of Frenzied attacks.

-the Legion could have an active ability where they teleport from one side of a survivor to the other, requiring a line of sight break in close proximity to activate. The Legion is 4 individuals, after all, so teamplay on their part should be considered fair.

-the Clown could gain some sort of boost for walking through his own poison clouds, or break out into insane laughter that would 'Unnerve' all survivors for a duration (similar to Unnerving Presence).

-the Clown could have a bottle or two of booze that he could down during the trial to enter an alternate state. The Clown hunted trophies off of his victims and enjoyed that part of it - maybe being reincarnated as a violent drunk could unlock an alternate kit for a short duration, making him more of a horrifying clown than a poison-oriented hunter.

-the Clown's poison could have a lasting effect on survivors' bodies throughout the match, as his concoction would take greater effect when given more time to circulate around someone's system. This would make him a killer that grows more lethal the longer he can stall survivors.

-Myers could have a limited amount of stalk-free tier ups that he would generate over time. His power is Evil Within, after all, so why should the source of his power always be external? Even if it is a shorter/inferior version of tiering up, it would be an improvement over his current status.

-Myers needs to have the 'Exposed' warning removed in tier 3 of Evil Within until he actually downs someone with it, and it should only last for that specific instance of t3. That way, people can't look at the right side of their screen and know when Myers is a threat or not - they will have to pay a single bit of attention for once.

-Myers should not have a map-wide sound when tiering up. The sound should only be heard within a set distance of him when he tiers up, or when a player is downed by him if they were not in the initial radius. Even Wraith does not give away as much about himself as Myers does, and Myers is supposed to be the stalker. How can he stalk when he can't even be stealthy about his [current state]?

-Myers needs to be able to gain evil from stalking multiple survivors at once, like he used to be able to. There is no excuse to keep him nerfed because rank 20s complained about an aspect of him, years ago. He's not Freddy, and shouldn't be treated like Freddy. People know that there is no increased threat from multiple people staying in his sight line, and even go so far as to taunt him in groups.

-Ghostface was a killer who stalked people until he learned every intricacy of their routines, then planned their deaths down to the minute detail. It would be interesting if he could look at a map asset and see which survivors have frequented it, or be able to predict a survivor's current location by knowing their routine. Perhaps something colour-coded, or with symbols (for colour-blind players)?

-The Pig needs a tiny bit more early-game pressure to truly get the ball rolling, since there are Jigsaw boxes all over the map that give people an early warning to look out for the Pig. Perhaps she could have 1-3 special stealth dash attacks with double or even triple range and slightly increased movement speed from the usual, each match. They'd give a relatively fair edge - if used properly, they could give hits; if used improperly, they could be wasted against a pallet.

-I'm not going to spend time making suggestions for the Doctor, so close to a Doctor change. There are plenty of ideas floating around these forums for that, currently.

Perk examples:

-a perk that builds up faster, the longer a killer's ability is unused, that gradually increases their movement speed until their next hit. It would greatly affect Myers, Freddy, Legion, Ghostface, Plague, and Leatherface, as their powers are useless for the majority of matches. [The idea is to tune the perk so that it is more effective, the weaker the kit of the killer that uses it.]

Is the better solution to rework the bottom-tier killers so they do not have garbage kits? Yes, of course. But Behaviour does not seem to want to go that route, as evidenced by the fact that we have had Hex: Ruin for a while, but bottom-tier killers for far longer and in greater numbers (I mained OG Wraith, OG/post-OG nerf Hag, post-nerf Freddy, pre-buff Doctor; you name the steaming hot pile of garbage, and I can tell you about the regular experience with it); as well as that we are losing Hex: Ruin, but the bottom-tier killers are apparently here to stay.

But, who knows? Hopefully they address the real issue."

That being said, while I believe that the weaker killer choices need to be improved to compensate for having the crutch kicked out from under them, I'm not 100% sure what the consensus is on the issues with the Hex: Ruin changes. For the most part, there are a few things most people can agree on. From what I've been reading, there have been a few generally accepted issues with the changes:

-the way the changes were phrased (at https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488/designer-notes-doctor-gatekeeper-hex-ruin#latest); or rather the way they weren't phrased, in that apart from throwing around a few numbers, there was no acknowledgement of why Hex: Ruin was so widely used and why it was used by killers, as opposed to the 'it's annoying for survivors, so let's nerf it' that it appeared to come across as, to many people.

-the 'reworked' Hex: Ruin is similar to Hex: Devour Hope, in that results are not seen until later in the match, by which point the totem will generally be cleansed, resulting in the perk generally being worthless.

-to make use of the 'reworked' Hex: Ruin effectively, it requires a perk combination; be it other totem perk(s) for camouflage, Surge to aid in a 3gen strategy, Surveillance to monitor regressing generators, etc. Increasing the perk slot cost of Hex: Ruin to at least 2 perk slots, while having it be less effective than it already was with a cost of only 1 perk slot, is not terribly welcome of a change. It brings up the same dilemma as Spirit Fury and Enduring - alone, the perks are mediocre at best, but together they are powerful - however, the question remains if the power of that perk combination warrants two perk slots or not, and every killer player answers that question differently, by either using them or not using them.

-larger maps need to be smaller (likely to make up for the time to go from one generator to another for less maneuverable killer choices?).

Now, back to the question in the title: where do we go from here?



  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    This is a literal essay.

    But seriously: Hex: Ruin has been seen as mandatory because it slows the game down with no effort required. Pop goes the Weasel slows the game down considerably more (20 secs per hook, around 8 hooks per game will save you 2 min 40 secs). Against survivors who can't hit greats, Ruin will survive for about 2.5 generators, 9 skillchecks per gen, that's 2 min 34 secs if survivors never hit greats, power through gens until Ruin is found, and find Ruin with minimal extra effort. The only difference is that you need not play the game or try to accomplish your objectives to make use of Ruin. In short, Ruin was an easy way to buy time against inexperienced players and is basically Easy mode for killers. I agree the only way they could possibly deal with the map imbalance problem with haste would be to add mobility and pressure options to some killers. I would personally love to see Clown running around in a drunken stupor.

  • I_am_NeganI_am_Negan Member Posts: 2,673
  • DetailedDetrimentDetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    I believe people are still making Ruin forums for attention.

  • shootaman777shootaman777 Member Posts: 130
    edited January 2020

    Apologies about the length of it, didn't want to have to type out the same things that I've already typed elsewhere later in this thread, figured I'd put it all in one place.

    I agree that it is seen as mandatory because it slows the game down, but not that it is seen as mandatory because of the low effort required. It comes with the risk of a totem perk after all - the risk that, depending on totem spawns, the perk can be broken 14 seconds into the match, permanently. It takes time to protect the totem, time in which survivors who are not totem diving get to work on objectives for free. In other words, it's a 50-50 of whether or not the killer loses a perk slot that could've bought them more time in a match, or gains a tiny bit of time over other generator slowdown perks.

    PGTW differs from Hex: Ruin in that PGTW has limited, conditional uses that require a time sink to use.

    Let's assume that the survivors in a given match have the same approximate Great Skill Check hit rate that I do (I would consider myself 'decent' at survivor - I know what to do, how to do it, and have the experience to pull it off, but still make mistakes fairly often. Have confirmed this hit rate on the skill check simulator I linked in the OP, by the way) - approximately 66%. Assuming the same numbers that you assumed before, with 9 skill checks per generator, that means the survivors hit 3 good skill checks for 21 seconds of regression per generator. Given that the first 3 generators happen simultaneously (in the scenario I described in the OP), that is 21 seconds of overall delay when survivors play efficiently and don't stack up on the same generator. During the second iteration of generators, 2 are being done simultaneously, for another 21 seconds of delay, totalling 42 seconds of time being bought by Hex: Ruin per match against 'decent' survivors.

    Now, with PGTW in the situation I described in the OP, the killer only has 1 or 2 chances to use PGTW at all, hooking 1 or 2 survivors before the exit gates are powered. Even then, it takes more of the killer's time to go to generators and kick them, and for what? 40 seconds of regression, 2 seconds less than Hex: Ruin? Also limiting killer choice to high-mobility killers so as to not waste too much time using PGTW in the first place? Why bother?

    In other words, I don't think Hex: Ruin is picked more because it is easier to use (as in some cases, it is not easier to use), but because it simply provides the most added time possible, to a single match, for a single perk slot.

    Then again, I suppose that's just nitpicking. But here we are with half an essay of it...

    Do you have any other ideas for the killers that need that little bit of something decent in their kit? Trying to think of things for Doctor, but not coming up with anything short of a full rework, or reversion to his previous state (like the one I made for Doc when he was in OG release state, pre-buff, at https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880504583142/).

    Imagine if they made Clown stumble while drunk, similar to the wiggle effect while carrying a survivor, but made him slightly faster as well. Would that be balanced?

  • shootaman777shootaman777 Member Posts: 130

    That's the point. To bring attention to the issues that Hex: Ruin's 'rework' (nerf nuke) creates. That's why we have these forums - to discuss ideas and provide feeback for the devs to work with. If we all stopped talking about how Freddy was nerfed because of how rank 20s complained about him, do you think the devs would've ever buffed him? No, probably not. Because if the community is not talking about it, then the devs can assume that the community has no interest in it. Even if people are already talking about something, it is better to add another voice to the pile.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    It isn't a nerf nuke lmao. Ruin still has a lot of potential for synergy in slowdown/totem builds. The issues the Ruin change creates are far less than the ones they solve. From a business standpoint, the Ruin nerf helps the devs no doubt.

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 2,047

    Huntress top tier, together with Spirit, Billy and Nurse ? Dude, she's dead without Ruin. And I heavily disagree with Plague being low tier.

  • Colton147Colton147 Member Posts: 523

    Clown won't be affected.

  • shootaman777shootaman777 Member Posts: 130

    Yes, it is a nerf nuke.

    As I said in the OP, and this is just one example of it being at the very least a nerf, if not a 'nerf nuke':

    "-to make use of the 'reworked' Hex: Ruin effectively, it requires a perk combination; be it other totem perk(s) for camouflage, Surge to aid in a 3gen strategy, Surveillance to monitor regressing generators, etc. Increasing the perk slot cost of Hex: Ruin to at least 2 perk slots, while having it be less effective than it already was with a cost of only 1 perk slot, is not terribly welcome of a change."

    Taking the synergies into account or not, the potential it will have post nerf nuke, is less than the current potential. This is what is defines a 'nerf'. What makes it a 'nerf nuke', is that every mechanic of it has seen a downgrade, or internal conflict that results in another downgrade.

    Please elaborate on:

    "The issues the Ruin change creates are far less than the ones they solve. From a business standpoint, the Ruin nerf helps the devs no doubt."

    -Which issue(s) are you referring to? Please list all of the ones the changes create, and all of the ones the changes solve. It is hard to take your word for it when you do not explain what you are saying enough to be understood by anyone but yourself. I am sure that it makes sense in your head, but if you do not explain the reasoning/examples/logic behind it, it will never make sense when you say it to someone else.

    -From a business standpoint? Please elaborate on where they stand to gain as a business from the change.

    -Please explain how the Ruin nerf helps the devs, and how you are able to know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Could I likely come up with an answer or two to these questions if I put some thought into it? Sure, but I am not going to do the thinking and writing for you, to prove your own assertions. That is not my role here. It is yours.

  • TheArchivistTheArchivist Member Posts: 34

    hex: ruin. Even before it was a perk, sometimes useless. With a good team, coordinated to beast. They gen rush you, even with access ruin. Then, they break it. Because they always spawn nearby. I mean, I did some experiments with ruin. And I've always won without. Because they break it after 5 sec of the game. Or why I also rush with the access ruin. It would be nice if the entity blocked the perk for 1-2 minutes. It would be a nice buff.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Create: less early game slowdown perks

    Solve: frustrations of newer survivors, monotony of trials, lack of perk variety

    More survivors will come back/join the game than killers will leave. This will also alleviate queues of newer killers and make the game more welcoming on that side as well.

    Ruin made the kill rate per trial completely rng based, once it's gone the devs can properly collect information such as this to help balance the game. Once the game is balanced, they will probably earn back all the higher ranked players they lost and both sides will have a more fun and balanced game and the playerbase will overall be increased greatly. Result: more money.

    None of this is set in stone, but the Ruin change is an obvious step toward a better game. If the devs find issues due to the change, I am confident they are competent enough to fix any that may arise because they had the foresight and courage to change Ruin.

    Hopefully when the changes go live there will also be a toolbox nerf to put people at ease.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    If you know your sightlines and max range, you can absolutely snipe the [BAD WORD] out of generators and hook rescuers, making her decent if you put that time in to learn.

    Plague is low tier because you get actively punished in the ranking system for using her power. Not only that, but she doesn't have the range of the other killers, or the consistency, especially if survivors never cleanse, you get turned into a glorified M1 killer that can puke. Which is why people don't bother cleansing until endgame.

  • OhMyWordsOhMyWords Member Posts: 230

    I like your idea with changing the killers to have more mobility and chase power, rather than smaller maps. This man gave good justification where he messaged it. Instead of band-aid fixes with perks, fundamentally change the killer's to fit the idea of larger maps, which would in turn pay off with more fun for the player. That makes sense to me.

  • Stitch7833Stitch7833 Member Posts: 632

    Ruin should of been a timed effect like corrupt so it can only last X amount of mins, but i guess my escape % will just be 99%. but i could always hit ruin anyway, just sucks for casual killers now

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 2,047

    Again, without Ruin, people gen rush her before she can even attempt these snipes, which are unreliable and map dependent. And Huntress is way too loopable on a very good amount of maps, more so than Plague.

  • MurcielagoMurcielago Member Posts: 163

    The less slowdown at the start kills off any killer but three vs good survivor players as well as okay more survivors rejoin most high rank killers leave so we get red ranks vs yellow and green ranks they aren't going to want to stay if all there games are completely washed with 4k escape and under six minutes as for the high rank killers you must be hoping pretty hard they don't become completely done with this game or find a new game one where they can actually enjoy themselves because if they don't then what no one will want to play killer and finally you're putting a lot of faith in bhvr it took them over two years to fix the worst killer better hope this doesn't happen here because again it will die

  • MurcielagoMurcielago Member Posts: 163

    Please let me know your secret to get across the map in under 40 seconds as a 110 movement speed killer on a big map like temple of purgation or red forest because that's already 20% of survivors win condition before you even made it over there unless your big brain plan is to throw a hatchet at every single generator on the map then okay

  • mylesmylomylesmylo Member Posts: 354

    Tbh my comment was about people I know who are real good with huntress and don't ever use ruin. I know that's not the case for everyone, with huntress there are really bad players with her even if ruin was up all match they would still be bad, some do alrite with her, if ruin lasts abit and then there are some players that are real good with huntress, but because they don't use ruin, if they have the opportunity to slug they will, and I don't blame them lol because what you said, movement speed is slow

  • MurcielagoMurcielago Member Posts: 163

    Even umbra one of the best hunteress players get gen rushed if the survivors are good enough all killers rely on survivors mistakes and if it's a big map , there's no early game slowdown and you happen to get unlucky with spawns you are going to lose a gen before you can even get there that's just a fact you can lose 20% of the game because of rng screwing any mobile killer

  • mylesmylomylesmylo Member Posts: 354

    Yeah she very map dependent aswell isn't she, although it's not intentional to make her less of a bad ass, it does seem like she gets screwed alot with changes.

  • MrPeterPFLMrPeterPFL Member Posts: 636

    I’m guessing the devs want to change Ruin to see what killer struggle the most without it as games with Ruin are not reliable data. This could lead to potential buffs for Killers in the future, how long? No idea, Killers may suffer a few months before the devs can gather a good amount data and start buffing weak killers. It would be nice if they could be transparent with us, maybe the stream could explain everything (Wishful thinking).

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,732

    The only killers that can make New Ruin work well against decent survivors are movement based killers, which is ironic, because they didn't need Ruin in the first place. They can keep survivors off gens. to let New Ruin do its thing. How is a Clown or Plague going to make optimal use of New Ruin when it takes them half a minute to cross a map without getting into any chases?

  • KgoochKgooch Member Posts: 8

    Are they going to have a strong perk on PS5 and then take it away to YouTube dead by daylight gooch hits

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    You don't even need Ruin nerfs to do this. If they approached the game with any level of competence in balance, EVERYBODY would be in a much better place. We wouldn't have R1s going against R15-20s. Killers wouldn't have to sweat because a single chase just cost them 80% of their objective. Maps would be neutral, and there'd actually be killer variety. Instead we're stuck with second rate peeps who think games should be balanced around the lowest possible spectrum of skill, and it's turned high rank play into such a joke that most people can't even defend the developer incompetence.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Easy, by just never being used by anybody who wants to actually have fun as killer.

  • ZoneDymoZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946

    Dear lordy, sorry I know you put a lot of work and thought into this but I cant read all that.

    Just my simple 2 cents.

    Ruin was a crutch perk, but one so deemed necesary.

    No killer player WANTS to run ruin, they just (feel they) have to.

    Ruin is not fun to run, it does not enhance your gameplay or whatever, it just "passively" gives you some breathing room which apperently is much needed otherwise 80% at Red Ranks would not use it.

    Survivors who know how to play will absolutely focus on gens hard early game so 2 or 3 will be done by the time you hook a single survivor.

    So, if ruin is now less effective, thats fine, we shall see more killers run different builds and maybe see the survivor escaping persentage go up if nothing really makes up for the lack of ruin.

    AND THEN we can balance the game with whatever we can, to revert things back to being more balanced.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Ruin didn't need to be gutted to figure out there's an issue though, all it takes is simple math and a couple hours of game knowledge to realize WHY it was deemed necessary. But then again, that's expecting way too much out of this dev team

  • ZoneDymoZoneDymo Member Posts: 1,946
    edited January 2020

    Well it wasnt, it was gutted because of how it functioned, how much it (felt,was) needed, and how the other players experienced it.

    If they would adjust the game to where ruin was not (felt) needed...and then people would run it anyway...then suddenly the game was skewed in the killers favor.

    (cough kinda like BT, DS, Adrenaline, Unbreakable cough cough pardon me).....

    So first we change hte way Ruin works (obviously with room for adjusting) to where it becomes a more active and honestly interesting perk for both sides.

    Then we adjust the game based on data registered later.

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