Having fast chases are enough. Downing and hooking a survivor is pressure all its own. His chase potential isn't fast enough though, like Nurse, Spirit, and Huntress.
Except typically the snares are better. They're pretty comparable at countering small loops, but for the bigger loops like ironworks god window... While you can place afew snares to kill it pretty easily, throwing a bottle is pretty useless since the smoke is likely to be gone by the time you come back around.
A large problem Clown has is the same thing Doc has. Once you starts a chase with someone, everyone on the map knows about it. Its easy to tell exactly WHERE you are due to the Clown's gas making people scream and its easy for the other 3 people to stay productive since they know you're busy, even if they dont see you. Add on the lack of mobility and they typically have too much of a feeling of safety. I KNOW I'm safe when screams are occuring on the opposite side of the map, and I know im safe for awhile afterwards because you still have to walk over to me.
For other killers who are deemed more lethal, they either offer good mobility to allow them to cross the map and pressure me immediately after a hook, or I DONT know their location at any given time and have to worry about a possible ambush out of nowhere at any given time. Freddy has BOTH of these between his teleport allowing him to get around and his Lullaby being omnidirectional. Typically when a mobility killer hooks someone and then you hear their TR come close to you really fast...you know which direction their approaching from. Freddy could be approaching you from ANY direction, making his kit offer abit of a stealth aspect as well.
Another example of a killer who doesnt suffer from quite the same issues is Huntress. Although shes slower, shes able to pressure survivors across the map alot of times. Being outside her TR doesnt mean I'm safe I still have to keep an eye out for flying hatchets. Add in her small TR and really large omnifirectional hum, and often times she can get closer to you than you realize because it sounds the same when shes at 21 meters than when shes at 45 meters. Is it safe to heal now, or are you in nurse's calling range? Unless you have LOS on her, often times you dont know and that 45 meter range puts you in her humming range too often to stay overly paranoid all game.
Clown is weird. His power is good because it gives you the last bit of oomph you need to get a hit when you've done everything else right and just need to take care of the inherent safety of the tile. It really only helps if you already know what you're doing as a killer. But if you already know how to chase efficiently, Clown's power may not be something you go for in a killer, as it can be countered by just dropping pallets in many cases.
WALL OF TEXT, lol. I'm actually very passionate about the clown, so I'm going all in on this.
His power works well enough-ish.
He's great during his release, because back then the meta was all about how fast you can end chases. He was made redundant with the Freddy rework because the snares are essentially better slows on top of Freddy's secondary ability.
But in the last 20 months or so since his release, the game's really shifted hard to how much pressure a killer can pressure a survivor ON TOP OF being able to end chases quickly.
He just has one power, and a power that doesn't always work well too, mind you.
The reload is slow af,
the slow fault effect doesn't affect pallet vaulting, so there's still potential for him to get looped on safe pallets.
Intoxication affect doesn't work, similar to the doctor's shock. Meaning survivor can still fast vault when they're gassed just because game things the survivor already vaulted the window before they got gassed/shocked. even tho visually you both can see that wasn't the case. This problem got worse once we migrated to live servers because there are more factors affecting the game now.
the bottles would randomly dissapear.
the gas would dissapear instantly/they would fall into the map or disappear faster then they should.
the bottles would "randomly" break on invisible objects or clips. its more notiable on him than on huntress's projectile because the throw is slow and has a harder projectile curve.
Couple that with him having very weak tracking(tracking's not too important the higher in ranks you go) no movement ability, no map control ability, no slow down ability and no ambush ability. This really puts him at a disadvantage, where's say even a "worse" killler like trapper, wraith and pig with no movement ablitiy. They all have a combination of abilities working with them.
Trapper can slow down the game if survivors play carefully slowing them down by encouraging them to walk over sprinting, they can get hurt if they step on the trap. This does two things for the trapper, they have to get lucky or wait for someone to rescue them. They get hurt, so they obviously have to heal themselves. Which buys the trapper some time. if they don't heal then the trapper will have an easier time downing them when he comes across them.
Wraith, has the ability to quickly get hits early in the match on multiple targets too he can use addons that affect how working and healing speeds. He can get easy first hits, leave and hit other people and just come across them when they're hurt.
Pig, has the ability to get easy ambush hits by hiding her terror radius like the wraith this opens up the ablity for her to pressure peopel even she's not actively chasing anyone, has the option and potential to deal with crazy loops with her ambush (naturally counters dead hard lol) and her trap buys her at a minimum the same value as pop goes the weasel to get off generators.
This is apart of why we've been seeing people slowly put the value of the huntress just a bit lower than they would around the same time he was introduced. Generators can literally be completed before the killer can get to them because its physically impossible for them to go to one end of the map to another. Also survivors take about two minutes to die, repairing takes 80 for one person and about 44 for twos. So yeah that's where clown feels the most pressure on because if he's not chasing someone he can't pressure the team because he doesn't have the ability to chase more than one person around..
So yeah, many people consider clown trash because if he's not actively chasing someone he's not pressuring anyone, he doesn't have a secodary ability and he can't spread damage around for pressure and he has no movement bonus and his still a regular moving killer meaning people can get [BAD WORD] done real fast. The power that he has can be very random with how it wants to behave.
personal thing, but he's also boring as [BAD WORD] to play with or against.
Hope this all makes any sense. I personally still play the clown I think I'm the only one playing him in my region, I still do okay with him even in red ranks without ruin because he can still somewhat defend hooks well enough once the gates are powered. But yeah the whole match is tough if you're gonna be playing the dreadful try hard ranks especially once the ruin changes go live.
But as bad as he is, at least he's no plague who doesn't have their power for the whole match if the survivors can help it. And his bloodpoint generation isn't hot garbage like her's too so you can invest in some strong addons for him.
What I personally would want to see happen is that the game can get overhauled in terms of map design and size or we get some gameplay changes (not by simply slowing the gens down that'd be god awful the last thing i would want is to be forced to play survivors sitting on a gen for 3 minutes for [BAD WORD] amounts of bloodpoints because things got too annoying to killer anymore).
A proper secondary objective would be nice, this would potentially help every killer instead of just the clown. I would like to see where survivors have materiel they need to collect or install on the generators or gates, because they can power the gens or start the generator.
That or they can give him a new ability to give him some flavor and cover his weaknesses. But I don't feel too confident in BHVR's ability to rework or update characters, because the last thing I would want to go off against a killer that's a snore fest to go against who's also super good at pressure and slowing the game down. That would be a nightmare. 🤭 Oh wait...
@mistar_z I may be alone but I find him fun to play as AND against.
You’re exactly right though. People had huge faith in him when he came out because of how quickly he ended chases. While I wouldn’t mind some tweaks like faster default reload speed or him not being slowed as much while throwing bottles his power isn’t bad at all and can end chases quickly and I think people are assuming that its useless.
As you say his entire problem stems from the fact that he can’t juggle other survivors nor does he have anything to keep them busy nor does he have mobility.
Unlike actual 1 shot killers, Legion gives the survivor a speed boost first, which they'll quickly use to get to a strong loop. If Bubba catches you out in the open...your going down. If Legion catches you out in the open, he'll help you fix that with a speed boost to safety. On maps like Crotus prenn asylum, Every time you get that first hit, you can guarantee survivors are just gonna beeline it to the map's overly safe spot.
If you run around and leave every single survivor after a stab when they get to a loop you will not kill anyone, this is just a timewaste. At certain time you have to keep going for that one survivor, especially if you dont hear your killer instinct.
Yes when chases are in your favor you go for it. If they aren't you go until you get a palet and then go back and pressure the other survivors again. Eventually there will be massive deathzones everywhere
You need to be good at m1 chasing. Knowing what can be mindgamed and such. Many people act like m1 chasing is impossible but it's really not.
He's definitely not played well, as could be said for many killers. I've seen many Clowns who barely use bottles in a chase or chase without having any bottles. They also don't use bottles in loops.
That said when people do know how to play him, everyone agrees he's weak due to map pressure. Even Fungoose said this who Almo quoted as a good killer and he was a former Clown main.
Clown car lets him move faster and run people over, as well as still throw gas bottles.
Clown car has limited fuel that goes down gradually and once it runs out, the engine sputters out and goes on a long cool-down before the Entity refuels the gas tank. The car cannot be moved except by being driven, so Clown must leave the car behind while being recharged and manually go to it again once it is ready.
Clown is super weak. If you play him vs good survivors you will struggle every time. His power is only useful in long chases without corners/angles. When looping survivors just need to throw pallets down early and force him to break the pallet. Breaking the pallet resets the chase and lets the survivor find another loop. His power can definitely help end chases earlier in a lot of different cases, but not enough to matter in a lot of games. Most of the games i do well on clown, i would have done well on any other M1 killer. Like other people mentioned, the clown has no way to apply map pressure and has no way to snowball if he downs someone. He's just an M1 killer that has the potential to sometimes end chases earlier because of his power (map dependent).
Personally I love clowns power. I'm relatively new to playing clown but from my expirience his power is great for directing survivors in a Chase. Their first instinct is to run away from the gas so some well timed bottle throws can completely mess with a survivors loop and if the decide to follow through then the chance of them making a mistake is greatly increased. Plus I love tossing a bottle in the air as I head to a gen and right before I get there it hits making 2 or 3 survivors scream so I can get an idea of if I need to worry about hitting the gen or pursuing the chase.
I think clown is fun to use as a killer. He moves quickly and the bottles are fun to throw, trying to guess where the survivor is going to go to. Also like you say, looping isn't that much of a problem if you have a build that doesn't care about eating pallets. At least you won't be going in circles for long as you force them to drop it by slowing them down with the gas
Yeah I really love what you can do with the bottles, sometimes I can cover 2 loops with 1 bottle, I feel like a [BAD WORD] scientist when I did that :D
Comments
Having fast chases are enough. Downing and hooking a survivor is pressure all its own. His chase potential isn't fast enough though, like Nurse, Spirit, and Huntress.
Except typically the snares are better. They're pretty comparable at countering small loops, but for the bigger loops like ironworks god window... While you can place afew snares to kill it pretty easily, throwing a bottle is pretty useless since the smoke is likely to be gone by the time you come back around.
A large problem Clown has is the same thing Doc has. Once you starts a chase with someone, everyone on the map knows about it. Its easy to tell exactly WHERE you are due to the Clown's gas making people scream and its easy for the other 3 people to stay productive since they know you're busy, even if they dont see you. Add on the lack of mobility and they typically have too much of a feeling of safety. I KNOW I'm safe when screams are occuring on the opposite side of the map, and I know im safe for awhile afterwards because you still have to walk over to me.
For other killers who are deemed more lethal, they either offer good mobility to allow them to cross the map and pressure me immediately after a hook, or I DONT know their location at any given time and have to worry about a possible ambush out of nowhere at any given time. Freddy has BOTH of these between his teleport allowing him to get around and his Lullaby being omnidirectional. Typically when a mobility killer hooks someone and then you hear their TR come close to you really fast...you know which direction their approaching from. Freddy could be approaching you from ANY direction, making his kit offer abit of a stealth aspect as well.
Another example of a killer who doesnt suffer from quite the same issues is Huntress. Although shes slower, shes able to pressure survivors across the map alot of times. Being outside her TR doesnt mean I'm safe I still have to keep an eye out for flying hatchets. Add in her small TR and really large omnifirectional hum, and often times she can get closer to you than you realize because it sounds the same when shes at 21 meters than when shes at 45 meters. Is it safe to heal now, or are you in nurse's calling range? Unless you have LOS on her, often times you dont know and that 45 meter range puts you in her humming range too often to stay overly paranoid all game.
Clown is weird. His power is good because it gives you the last bit of oomph you need to get a hit when you've done everything else right and just need to take care of the inherent safety of the tile. It really only helps if you already know what you're doing as a killer. But if you already know how to chase efficiently, Clown's power may not be something you go for in a killer, as it can be countered by just dropping pallets in many cases.
Freddy does everything Clown does, but better.
WALL OF TEXT, lol. I'm actually very passionate about the clown, so I'm going all in on this.
His power works well enough-ish.
He's great during his release, because back then the meta was all about how fast you can end chases. He was made redundant with the Freddy rework because the snares are essentially better slows on top of Freddy's secondary ability.
But in the last 20 months or so since his release, the game's really shifted hard to how much pressure a killer can pressure a survivor ON TOP OF being able to end chases quickly.
He just has one power, and a power that doesn't always work well too, mind you.
Couple that with him having very weak tracking(tracking's not too important the higher in ranks you go) no movement ability, no map control ability, no slow down ability and no ambush ability. This really puts him at a disadvantage, where's say even a "worse" killler like trapper, wraith and pig with no movement ablitiy. They all have a combination of abilities working with them.
Trapper can slow down the game if survivors play carefully slowing them down by encouraging them to walk over sprinting, they can get hurt if they step on the trap. This does two things for the trapper, they have to get lucky or wait for someone to rescue them. They get hurt, so they obviously have to heal themselves. Which buys the trapper some time. if they don't heal then the trapper will have an easier time downing them when he comes across them.
Wraith, has the ability to quickly get hits early in the match on multiple targets too he can use addons that affect how working and healing speeds. He can get easy first hits, leave and hit other people and just come across them when they're hurt.
Pig, has the ability to get easy ambush hits by hiding her terror radius like the wraith this opens up the ablity for her to pressure peopel even she's not actively chasing anyone, has the option and potential to deal with crazy loops with her ambush (naturally counters dead hard lol) and her trap buys her at a minimum the same value as pop goes the weasel to get off generators.
This is apart of why we've been seeing people slowly put the value of the huntress just a bit lower than they would around the same time he was introduced. Generators can literally be completed before the killer can get to them because its physically impossible for them to go to one end of the map to another. Also survivors take about two minutes to die, repairing takes 80 for one person and about 44 for twos. So yeah that's where clown feels the most pressure on because if he's not chasing someone he can't pressure the team because he doesn't have the ability to chase more than one person around..
So yeah, many people consider clown trash because if he's not actively chasing someone he's not pressuring anyone, he doesn't have a secodary ability and he can't spread damage around for pressure and he has no movement bonus and his still a regular moving killer meaning people can get [BAD WORD] done real fast. The power that he has can be very random with how it wants to behave.
personal thing, but he's also boring as [BAD WORD] to play with or against.
Hope this all makes any sense. I personally still play the clown I think I'm the only one playing him in my region, I still do okay with him even in red ranks without ruin because he can still somewhat defend hooks well enough once the gates are powered. But yeah the whole match is tough if you're gonna be playing the dreadful try hard ranks especially once the ruin changes go live.
But as bad as he is, at least he's no plague who doesn't have their power for the whole match if the survivors can help it. And his bloodpoint generation isn't hot garbage like her's too so you can invest in some strong addons for him.
What I personally would want to see happen is that the game can get overhauled in terms of map design and size or we get some gameplay changes (not by simply slowing the gens down that'd be god awful the last thing i would want is to be forced to play survivors sitting on a gen for 3 minutes for [BAD WORD] amounts of bloodpoints because things got too annoying to killer anymore).
A proper secondary objective would be nice, this would potentially help every killer instead of just the clown. I would like to see where survivors have materiel they need to collect or install on the generators or gates, because they can power the gens or start the generator.
That or they can give him a new ability to give him some flavor and cover his weaknesses. But I don't feel too confident in BHVR's ability to rework or update characters, because the last thing I would want to go off against a killer that's a snore fest to go against who's also super good at pressure and slowing the game down. That would be a nightmare. 🤭 Oh wait...
@mistar_z I may be alone but I find him fun to play as AND against.
You’re exactly right though. People had huge faith in him when he came out because of how quickly he ended chases. While I wouldn’t mind some tweaks like faster default reload speed or him not being slowed as much while throwing bottles his power isn’t bad at all and can end chases quickly and I think people are assuming that its useless.
As you say his entire problem stems from the fact that he can’t juggle other survivors nor does he have anything to keep them busy nor does he have mobility.
Legion's power is actually pretty good if you play it well
Tracking, stall and bassicly turning you into a oneshot killer
I don't understand how people can think it's a bad power
Unlike actual 1 shot killers, Legion gives the survivor a speed boost first, which they'll quickly use to get to a strong loop. If Bubba catches you out in the open...your going down. If Legion catches you out in the open, he'll help you fix that with a speed boost to safety. On maps like Crotus prenn asylum, Every time you get that first hit, you can guarantee survivors are just gonna beeline it to the map's overly safe spot.
Don't chase the person you just stabbed? Especially if they run to a safe loop
Injure them and then later catch them off guard
If you blindly follow survivors into safe spots then you'll do bad with any killer
That has nothing to do with Legions power but you as a player
@Sonzaishinai
If you run around and leave every single survivor after a stab when they get to a loop you will not kill anyone, this is just a timewaste. At certain time you have to keep going for that one survivor, especially if you dont hear your killer instinct.
Yes when chases are in your favor you go for it. If they aren't you go until you get a palet and then go back and pressure the other survivors again. Eventually there will be massive deathzones everywhere
You need to be good at m1 chasing. Knowing what can be mindgamed and such. Many people act like m1 chasing is impossible but it's really not.
I think I heard @Almo mention on their stream that they also think Clown is under utilized / not played well.
I think Clown is pretty ok, but his perks are great (well, 2/3)
As other people have said, his power is a worse Freddy power. He has no map pressure and good survivors will just throw pallets early.
He's definitely not played well, as could be said for many killers. I've seen many Clowns who barely use bottles in a chase or chase without having any bottles. They also don't use bottles in loops.
That said when people do know how to play him, everyone agrees he's weak due to map pressure. Even Fungoose said this who Almo quoted as a good killer and he was a former Clown main.
Stupid idea to give Clown more map pressure:
He has a tiny clown car he can get in and out of.
Clown car lets him move faster and run people over, as well as still throw gas bottles.
Clown car has limited fuel that goes down gradually and once it runs out, the engine sputters out and goes on a long cool-down before the Entity refuels the gas tank. The car cannot be moved except by being driven, so Clown must leave the car behind while being recharged and manually go to it again once it is ready.
cause people are dumb.
shuts down loops instantly. people that bitch about clowns power are just bad at using it and dont understand what theyre doing.
Clown is super weak. If you play him vs good survivors you will struggle every time. His power is only useful in long chases without corners/angles. When looping survivors just need to throw pallets down early and force him to break the pallet. Breaking the pallet resets the chase and lets the survivor find another loop. His power can definitely help end chases earlier in a lot of different cases, but not enough to matter in a lot of games. Most of the games i do well on clown, i would have done well on any other M1 killer. Like other people mentioned, the clown has no way to apply map pressure and has no way to snowball if he downs someone. He's just an M1 killer that has the potential to sometimes end chases earlier because of his power (map dependent).
Personally I love clowns power. I'm relatively new to playing clown but from my expirience his power is great for directing survivors in a Chase. Their first instinct is to run away from the gas so some well timed bottle throws can completely mess with a survivors loop and if the decide to follow through then the chance of them making a mistake is greatly increased. Plus I love tossing a bottle in the air as I head to a gen and right before I get there it hits making 2 or 3 survivors scream so I can get an idea of if I need to worry about hitting the gen or pursuing the chase.
@toxic_clown
Agree
I actually like his Power, i just dislike what he doesn't have.
He can put some slowdown in chases and that's it.
He needs fixes anyway, is his personal bug list still at 40+?
I think clown is fun to use as a killer. He moves quickly and the bottles are fun to throw, trying to guess where the survivor is going to go to. Also like you say, looping isn't that much of a problem if you have a build that doesn't care about eating pallets. At least you won't be going in circles for long as you force them to drop it by slowing them down with the gas
@Boss
Yeah I really love what you can do with the bottles, sometimes I can cover 2 loops with 1 bottle, I feel like a [BAD WORD] scientist when I did that :D
@zaquintar
Exactly! He just needs some map pressure help.