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People Really Think This Game Is Survivor Sided?

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  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Things have gotten better sure, but nowhere near where it should be on a functional level. As it is their ranking system completely skews all data since it lumps potatoes in with decent to top tier survivors, completely skewing that match.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,561
    edited January 2020

    Actually it was a healing buff to medkits. The only nerf was the insta heals.

    They mentioned a reduction in pallet density but they've also said that many times with no significant difference to be noted other than double pallet spawns. That was also a quote for density, not a lessening of the amount of pallets. That change didn't do much.

    Pallet vacuum was actually worse for survivor before that recent change. The change they made most recently reduced the animation time. IE the most recent pallet vacuum change lessened the hits through pallets, so a survivor buff.

    Killer pick up and hooking animation is extremely minor.

    DS went from completely OP to just normal OP now. It is still the best perk in the game by far and still needs adjustments badly.

    Freddy is way better, but we are talking about balance in general, not one specific killer. Also, if we're gonna count Freddy then we should count Nurse and Spirit getting hammered down which I would say combined was much more significant than solely Freddy.

    Which really well balanced maps recently are you referring to? Hawkins is the only real improvement I've seen so far. The majority of the newer maps are still survivor sided.

    Bedham is still for the most part quite survivor sided. It hasn't really been improved much with their changes. I can't comment on Lery's as it isn't even released yet for a final judgement on its balance.

    Very little to almost none of this was significant in any manner, much less all the "nerfs" to the killer side that came along with all these that were at least as significant if not worse.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    Save the best is very greedy. You are assuming you will be able to get 8 fast hits on the survivors, but really good survivors are going to make you fight for every single M1. It is only the potatoes who are going to just be giving out free hits for you to build the stacks easily.

    Spirit fury I don't like at all, I think bamboozle is a much better chase perk, and it only uses 1 slot. Half the time there are so many pallets on the map even with the spirit fury combo it won't even get you an instadown (it's trash on M1 killers by the way) because the next pallet is 3 feet away. Bamboozle will punish very good survivors because they will get greedy for extra loops, and trapped at loops where they assume they can pull out an extra vault.

    BE is assuming the survivors are running exhaustion perks, and that they are going to be injured when you are hooking someone. Which means you are quickly injuring and downing everyone, which is only going to happen to bad survivors, or on a really killer sided map. I don't run an exhaustion perk when I am playing for the team because there is no room for it.

    Any slowdown perk is greedy. The only non-greedy perks are chase perks and tracking perks, and NOED. But NOED is kind of a crutch so I don't really care to use it against non SWF.

  • ppo8820ppo8820 Member Posts: 763
    edited January 2020

    Well with survivor the initial grind is brutal. You constantly die and killer is so easy on ranks 14-20 or so. Then as survivors get better and better over time, it appears they are op, especially in swf. Red and purple rank survivors have put in mad time and gotten quite good, and killers often can’t keep up this point. So yes the game seems survivor sided at red and purple ranks, but is killer sided on green and yellow/brown. Throw in a busted matchmaking system and it can be terrible.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233


    Fair enough on STB, I only pull it out if I recognize a alt lemming swf team. Spirit Fury and Enduring I run to punish survivors who drop pallets earlier than they should or just in the nick of time. It has yet to fail me there, especially on Oni and Spirit, my two mains (Yeah, get that hate out on the Oni, because I know he's hot garbage rn lmao). I actually hadn't fully tested BE yet, so thanks for that heads up. NOED is in there just to [BAD WORD] over lobbies who come in with 4 toolboxes thinking that they won't get dunked on in the end game altruist rush.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    I don't see why you would ever run spirit fury on spirit, who can basically ignore pallets, windows, and looping for the most part. She is similar to nurse.

    The only counter to her is iron will, and you can just put on stridor. It will take some getting used to the much louder sounds of non iron-will survivors.

    I will never play without iron will. It is simply too good to either lose a killer in a chase, or be able to hide when you are injured.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Spirit Fury is on Oni, my Spirit build is BBQ, Whispers, HHG/HDH, and HTOTH/Pop

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    It's funny you mention IW as well, my surv build is SB/UE/BT/IW

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    I do SB / Fixated / IW / Calm spirit if I am playing for myself. Or I do IW / BT / DS / Deliverance if I want to save my team.

    Deliverance / DS / BT let's me play very aggressively, and make up for my teams mistakes, like going into the basement. It is a one shot combo for the most part, but that's really all you need if you play well.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Yeah, the other dude in my swf runs DS/BT/Del/SC for the low rank grind, he loops while I smash gens. In the higher ranks SC gets swapped out for Adrenaline

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 427

    I'm curious if you have actually watched the games in this experiment. I watched all the nurse games, expecting to see some great plays by the survivors, and yet..there was nothing like that. All but like one of the nurse games had nurses that had no business being in red ranks, maybe not even purple. I'll admit, I haven't seen many of the other games, but just going by those nurse games, I wouldn't be able to trust the results of that experiment very much at all.

    That isn't to say you're wrong in this topic.

    Especially with this ruin change, the devs are going in the absolute wrong direction for balance.

    On a large map against equally skilled survivors the killer will have no chance unless their first chase is over as soon as it starts.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Well that's the problem with the emblem system isn't it, it puts potatoes in ranks they don't belong

  • MurcielagoMurcielago Member Posts: 163

    The problem with your precious stats is an early stat post by dbd showed rank one survivors have a 70% percent escape rate twenty percent higher than even rank two

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,561
    edited January 2020

    Keep in mind, when the survivors are really good it makes the killer look worse. Just saying it can skew the perception. Nurse is also one of, if not the hardest to killer to learn/perfect. They also could have been way sweatier with items if they had wanted.

    I think the entire idea of winning so and so many games in a row to prove or disprove this point is flawed in the first place. Just giving the response since he specifically asked for it.

  • PostcommodorePostcommodore Member Posts: 9

    "Sure most of the killers are weak" "Most maps are strong for survivors" If the majority of the killers and the majority of the maps favor the survivors would that mean that the survivors have an edge? Therefore making the mindset not so unfounded. In truth I think the survivors have a bit of an advantage overall Its not game breaking but it can be frustrating at times. But the largest advantage for survivors is that swf with communication if the friends have any decent amount of experience they can run circles around a lot of killers. I am well aware that swf is not a guarantee and can be overcome by veteran killers and is not a sure fire win but it is an advantage better than any perk. Another issue is in the Variety of killers each killer has a different play style. Which is why I think the ranking system for killers should have each killer have their own rank rather than it be collective. You get good with one killer your rank increases a bit and you think "I should try out a different killer" only have the rank you gained turn against you in matchmaking as now your are fighting higher ranked survivors than you are ready for with that killer.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,427

    They say and I quote "Do not draw any conclusions from these stats as there are many factors that go into them" I.E. too many things are inflating the stats , moris, noed, survivors killing themselves end game, hook suicides, dcs..once you take all that in you realize the stats are massively inflated

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    Holy crap. I had to play survivor tonight with my wife and it is the absolute worst experience. I despise that role. Every game is either a camp/tunnel fest or a smurf killer wiping out low levels. Sorry, but rank 20 Huntress with all T3 perks does not hit precision shots with axes. Most can barely throw an axe in the general direction of a survivor.

    I want to thank survivor mains for putting up with this crop of bs so I can hunt you as Trapper. Speaking of which, wife logged, so I get to play killer again.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 427

    Yeah, definitely really good players are able to make lesser skilled players look silly. I watched those games with that in mind. At least for almost all of the nurse games though, it was like watching grandmaster players beat platinum players. They couldn't catch dead hard-less players for minutes at a time.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,561
    edited January 2020

    I think you will get a much better representation of the games balance watching the games against the M1 killers as that represents the majority of killers. For how bad the Nurses looked, the M1 killers look like clowns.

    Post edited by Blueberry on
  • danielbird11danielbird11 Member Posts: 149

    I strongly agree with this. Killers can dominate any team if they are good enough. While survivors chance or escaping is mostly Rng around bad teammates and what killer it is. Don't get me started on addons and perks. moris are stupid op and ruin the game for all the survivors. And before you say keys are bad you have to complete 5 gens to get everybody out 4 to get 3 out and so on which is pretty balanced.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    5 gens can be done in a single chase if you coordinate in pre game lobby lmao, hence why toolboxes are coming back into the meta. 131 seconds of pure BING BING BING BING BING

  • danielbird11danielbird11 Member Posts: 149

    The average chase for good killers last about 40 seconds if i'm correct. So the killer still has time to go to gens after hooking and apply pressure. Plus one survivor will have to unhook which is 2 survivors that are not on gens. Plus the killer probably found another survivor in that time and got them off a gen and downed and hooked them in about 50 secs. Then the killer goes to patrol gens and repeat the cycle. If they are a good killer which in most cases they aren't. Because matchmaking is f**ked and rank 20 killers get rank 1 swf with toolboxes. Same with potato survivor teammates like i said in my other comment. Matchmaking is why the game is mostly unbalanced right now. And the devs have no idea how to fix it because they don't get accurate results on average kill rates and stuff like that. That and also because they dont play their own game lol.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 889

    Don't forget the fast vault nerf.

    Survivors now take a bit longer to finish a vault than what they used to.

  • EZ5kEZ5k Member Posts: 233

    Highly depends on the map as well as what rank. An actual red ranker can easily run the killer for 90-120 seconds, at which point 60-90% of their objective is done, and if they hold on hook for another 11 seconds, it's GG until the killer initiates the next chase. Keep in mind the stats I'm using are based off previous experiences at rank 1 on both sides, and calculated using the times provided on the wiki. A non rushing team is 192, which is significantly more time, but if you're up against a team full of toolboxes and a single PT, gg no re, you've already lost 90% of your pressure in the first chase. Exceptions to this are maps like The Game, and Hawkins, because of how widely spread gens are and how convoluted the navroutes are to get to them.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    Link? Ofc you will not have the video due to reasons.

  • silverwolf4455silverwolf4455 Member Posts: 475

    You just stated it in your opening. *most* killers are weak and *most* maps are survivor sided. Therefore most of the time the survivor is the power role.

  • luka2211luka2211 Member Posts: 1,387

    Not survivor sided in soloQ,but SWF sided i'd say. Ayrun got to a 96 escape streak with his squad,he lost to a stream sniping gf in the end

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,080

    Definitely have to disagree here as well. I do not think the new maps have been extremely survivor sided. Especially now, that Ruin is nerfed, these are probably some of the most balanced maps. I wouldn't mind if they made a few pallets in the hallways of Hawkins slightly safer so survivors could mindgame those pallets as well, and I do think that Sanctum of Wrath could need a few more pallets, all mindgameable though, but in general they are very balanced.

    Good survivors still have the potential to run the killer around long enough to make a good difference. The main difference here is that killers as well have counterplay to make chases last short enough so they can keep up with the gen speed. At least in Hawkins. I wish more maps had the balance of Hawkins, Lerys or at leasth the Badham maps, even though I feel like the Badham maps still have one or two too many safe pallets when considering the good window spawns that map has as well.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,080

    I'm talking about the increase in general healing time. It used to be 12 seconds for a survivor to heal another survivor, now it's 16 seconds.

    And I personally have noticed quite a difference with the pallet density nerf. Sure, on some maps more than on others, and rng still plays a role in this as well, but for me this change made quite a nice difference.

    Regarding pallet vacuum, I guess you are talking about the buff where survivors were able to throw down pallets a bit faster when stationary? I was talking about them teleporting from one side of the pallet to the other, which seemed ridiculous and removing that definitely helped the killer.

    The DS nerf in my opinion was huge. Except for juggling, which wasted time and could be completely negated by body blocking survivors, there was no counterplay to DS. Now it's so much more manageable.

    Hawkins in particular, which seems like a pretty balanced map to me, it just has maybe a few too many pallets that are completely unsafe for survivor. Sanctum is also pretty balanced in my opinion, since it's not that big and doesn't have too many pallets.

    Lerys is also pretty balanced and probably getting even more balanced. The only problem I see with that map is the double window setup with the god pallet at the library. I feel like the devs might need to take a look at that loop but I doubt they will based on past experience.

    Badham maps are also fairly balanced despite the buildings maybe still being just a tad too strong for survivors. Father's Champbell is also pretty balanced, and there are probably a few more I'm not thinking of. Of course, there are still quite a few maps that are unbalanced, especially the original maps. The Macmillan maps are probably the most balanced ones out of the original maps, but even those still have too many safe pallets. Except maybe for Shelter Woods. That map seems pretty balanced. Or even killer sided if the killer has high mobility.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,080

    Well I definitely agree that matchmaking and the ranking system is a big problem right now. Pretty sure there are some survivor players that believe the game is killer sided because of this one problem. They don't realise how problematic the ranking system is right now.

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