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Decisive Strike Change When?

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Comments

  • NegiNegi Member Posts: 310

    And then you pick yourself up with UB or someone comes and gets you. And you weren't hooked. Sounds like DS did its job.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 5,023

    Giving it deep wound would ironically fix a lot of the problems.

    Something like, When you are unhooked DS activates and you suffer from deep wound status effect. While DS is active and you are hit by a killers attack the next pick up will prompt the skillcheck.

    Now survivors can run for as long as they want and have DS. If they do anything else for 20 seconds they go down again without DS

    Just a brainstorm i had. Don't take it too serious

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,261

    It is intended to stop tunneling, quoting the devs themselves on ds.

    "serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed"

    source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike

  • jrinkwaterjrinkwater Member Posts: 314

    Ah yes BUT the timer also stops slugging to a degree. It is far too overtuned

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,261
    edited January 9

    Oh I think 100% DS needs to be tuned down by a hefty amount, that perk has no sufficient counter play and before someone says "JuSt SlUg" slugging is not always a good move and can lose you pressure in a lot of cases if done at the wrong time, this also doesn't solve the issue of survivors just using DS as a "Do whatever I want" card for the next 60 seconds because they know they can. If slugging was SO bad all the time then survivors would be worried about it and try to avoid the killer anyway. They don't because they know it's not.

    Slugging is still a loss for the killer in most cases compared to hooking that survivor. There's specific scenarios where slugging is a good move and this gives the killer no choice in when or where it happens.

    Not to mention all the DS combo perks like UB ect.

  • vacamanvacaman Member Posts: 1,113
  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 4,659

    @MrPenguin

    It's not intented to strictly be an anti-tunnel perk. It never was.


    Just because it serves that purpose doesn't mean it can be played in other ways. The timer is the downside of the perk, so it's easy to counter it by slugging.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,261
    edited January 10

    You're right its also an anti-farming tool like I (and the devs) said. See not purely tunneling. Unless they come out and say its also something else that's all its supposed to be. The perk is still too strong in either case as "other ways" means abused to put the killers in a lose-lose when it comes to DS and especially with its combo perks.

    Please read my post literally 2 down from the one you quoted to see why slugging isn't a good defense. Also that "downside" is laughable compared to the benefit the perk provides.

  • DoctorMadnessDoctorMadness Member Posts: 24

    That's a bad change, A killer can abuse that by downing the unhooker and then tunneling you to down you and bam hooks the other guy and then back on the hook you go

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 4,356

    It needs to have deactivate conditions or something. I'm tired of hooking someone else and then getting DS'd.

  • tortradertortrader Member Posts: 505
    edited January 11
    Post edited by tortrader on
  • tortradertortrader Member Posts: 505
  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 4,659

    @MrPenguin

    Provide with several exmaples where it is a lose-lose situation for a killer?

    I want several, not some random match you had where you think it was a lose-lose situation for a killer. Cuz you know that happens on both sides right?

    You are obviously one of those people who gets stunned by DS more than not. So please provide examples.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,261
    edited January 11

    I actually don't get stunned very often by DS Mr.Assumptions but that doesn't mean I don't see why or that its not a problem perk as I can easily abuse it myself when I want to and have seen/experienced scenarios of others doing the same both in and out my friend groups. I just choose to play in a sub-optimal way as killer the grand majority of the time because that's how I have fun and that playstyle makes me less susceptible (although not immune because again, the perk is so easy to abuse if you really want to). Of course I also have the experience of the times I do tryhard a match to go off of as well. 4 Lose-lose situations are:

    • On a gen with DS up, especially with a locker nearby.
    • Going for a hook save with DS up, now no matter who you go after you lose (also 1 of them now most likely has BT on them).
    • Body blocking with it up for someone else (also prob with BT as well).
    • Slugging because it forces killers too in a situation they shouldn't be slugging in. Welp, guess I just lose a hook state because the perk say so and now they're an easy pickup. Slugging is just the lesser of 2 evils, not a proper counter. Waste your time but at least they're down (but they now become an easy pickup and with no hook progression) or don't down them and they're free to run around, or pick them up and waste even more time because they just got a free health state and head start while their team sits on gens. A lesser loss is still a loss.

    Throw into the mix other second chances like BT, UB ect. and it gets even worse:

    • Deliverance into DS, esp during EGC
    • UB making the slugging situation even worse because now they can pick themselves up, also potentially soul guard
    • Power struggle, DS, UB, combo. Pick them up now? Stunned. Leave? they get up or get picked up. Wait? pallet stun.

    That's just off the top of my head. I could probably add more if I sat and though about it for a while. Not all of these are to the same exact degree, but there's not much, if anything, the killer can realistically do in these situations to come out on top. The perk should deactivate if the survivor gets on a gen/totem, in a locker, unhooks anyone, or heals. This would most likely solve most of the abuse cases while still leaving the anti-tunnel/farm aspect alone.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,785

    DS is not an anti-tunnel perk; the devs confirmed its intent on stream. It is, if you’re ancient enough to remember DS 1.0, a second chance perk. It just happens to overlap with anti-tunnel capacities, but since that’s not it’s job, it will not fit perfectly into that capacity.

    That being, I don’t like DS either and I wish all DS users a very NOED demise, but I don’t think it’s going to be whittled down more to an anti-tunnel perk. They’ll probably change the activation requirements, or stun time.

  • darktrixdarktrix Member Posts: 1,790
    edited January 11

    Yes, this is the reason the 'deactivates when another survivor is hooked' solution is bad. It not only encourages more camping, it's a way around DS, since killers that like to race back to the hook every time that often forces people to trade hooks.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 4,659
    edited January 12

    @MrPenguin

    Oh we're on a nickname basis now? Must have hit the right spot.

    I am going to touch on each one of these, and why I disagree that they aren't a lose-lose situation for a killer.

    "On a gen with DS up, especially with a locker nearby."

    This is simply wrong. Unless you are an incompetent killer who doesn't understand that DS has a timer attached, you would have to grab the survivor off the gen before you can get stunned. If they go into a locker, AND you haven't been tunneling off hook, you have seconds to wait before their timer is out. So, no it's not a lose-lose situation.

    "Going for a hook save with DS up, now no matter who you go after you lose (also 1 of them now most likely has BT on them)."

    This doesn't even make sense. The survivor who saved can go down, DS doesn't protect them. You only think it does because the timer is active, but it doesn't actually do anything unless you pick up. BT can easily be countered as you just have to wait 15 seconds and when you hit them after they go down.

    Body blocking with it up for someone else (also prob with BT as well).

    How is this a lose-lose situation? The person with DS can still go down? If it's the last hook and the gate is nearby, all you have to do is force a trade.

    "Slugging because it forces killers too in a situation they shouldn't be slugging in. Welp, guess I just lose a hook state because the perk say so and now they're an easy pickup. Slugging is just the lesser of 2 evils, not a proper counter. Waste your time but at least they're down (but they now become an easy pickup and with no hook progression) or don't down them and they're free to run around, or pick them up and waste even more time because they just got a free health state and head start while their team sits on gens. A lesser loss is still a loss."

    I am not really sure why you think countering the perk is a bad thing? It doesn't create a lose-lose situation because you have applied free pressure either way. You are only incorporating specific variables to satisfy your argument, because what if instead of working on gens, survivors tried to pick that teammate up because in actuality the killer WAS tunneling all along? See how it can flip? I have made a lot of survivors snowball, especially if I have sloppy butcher slotted.

    I think you have a problem with waiting. Like, no disrespect, but I think you want a down immediately, with no obstacles and no situational decision-making. That is not what this game is.

    You realize they cannot possible balance DS in every speckle of imaginary situations where you think it is unfair. Why? For the same reason they can't fully balance Camping, Slugging, Tunneling (Even tho we all know they are boderline abusive many times, just as your little situational examples). It's funny how I often hear "Well you see... Camping is a strat, Tunneling is a strat, Slugging is a strat...." as a way to justify plays. When DS comes into the picture tho... "OH NO, IT'S BROKEN, ABUSIVE".

    Bottom Line: The perk should be changed when Camping , Tunneling and Slugging changes. As of right now it is fine as it is.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 4,659
    edited January 12

    @Wesker09

    They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    In other words, killers who often complain about DS, often ALSO do not understand the level of tunneling that occurs in games.

    There is no way they will change DS without also addressing the elephant in the room and how obnoxiously abused these built in mechanics like tunneling actually are.

  • AzerothAzeroth Member Posts: 66

    [BAD WORD], they changed ruin and its still most used perk on rank 1. I think u play another game lol

  • NotACompPlayerNotACompPlayer Member Posts: 183
    edited January 12

    "When is this perk going to be fixed? It is intended as a defensive perk for survivors when a killer tunnels them. As such, it is essentially an ''anti-tunnel'' perk yet it benefits the survivor even outside this context."


    Any proof to the devs saying thats what they want it to be, or did you just pull the statement out of your ass?

  • TheCursedTitanTheCursedTitan Member Posts: 168

    Just do what everyone else does slug, combine thana with sloppy butcher and nurses if it bugs you that much, honesty it’s what I do, I either eat it or I just slug em

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,261
    edited January 12

    I was just pointing out you were assuming, you didn't "hit the right spot" (assuming again btw) just because I used a 1 off nickname that's not even offensive lol.

    Simply put just getting a down is not good enough since DS still makes you lose out on that hook state if you leave them and give them a free heal if you pick them up. If you wait for the 40-50 seconds then that's roughly half of the other gens getting done. I don't personally have a problem waiting, however the killer does not have the time to just wait in the current state of the game where gens fly by. Its not just 1 or 2 people its a 4v1. Any time your waiting is time the others are doing gens or something else. I could wait and have the patience to do so, but that's how you lose games.

    If you can give me a solution to DS that lets me put said survivor on a hook without getting stunned or having to wait potentially almost a minuet because they are throwing themselves in front of me or onto the objective then it might be considered a decent counter since the killer will still be making progress on their objective. The solution should just be if you don't tunnel you don't get hit, but that's not what we have right now.

    There is nothing you can do so DS does nothing to hinder you to a much too large extent. Slugging does not give you more pressure than putting someone on a hook will unless its used in specific scenarios and in a lot of cases will lose you pressure compared to having hooked or even killed someone since now they can move, be an easy pickup, you didn't get your hook state(aka progress), use unbreakable and you wasted your time on them for no progression on your objective while they created time for their team to do theirs.

    There's nothing to stop a survivor from getting off hook and just jumping straight on a gen right away. Then if you try to punish them you get stunned, they get a free health state, and whole additional chase starts because they got rewarded for making a bad play right in the killers face

    If your problem is tunneling and camping then there's no reason why you would oppose the changes purposed.

    Further on that point camping and slugging all have decent counters and drawbacks, DS does not (thats a whole additional conversation I could go into but not the point of this thread and this comment is long enough as is). You cannot give DS a counter outside of "Just don't tunnel" because then actual tunnelers will abuse that counter. It doesn't have a good counter now and it shouldn't get one, not tunneling needs to be enough. Right now it is not.

    On that note, tunneling is its own enigma because apparently its not fine for the killer to focus their objective but the survivors can focus theirs no problem. Bit of a double standard there. It should either be fine for both or not fine for both, not fine for me but not for thee.

    It needs a deactivation requirement so that its more focused on countering what it should counter and not just a massive middle finger "I can do whatever I want and if the killer tries to stop me I get rewarded" card and hitting killers who are just doing well or had a survivor toss themselves in the way because they know they can and not be punished in a way that matters the grand majority of the time.

    Post edited by MrPenguin on
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