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The Hillbilly Problem

PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842
edited February 2020 in General Discussions

THIS IS NOT A HILLBILLY HATE OR HIT-PIECE

Since nobody is properly reading this, here's a small sunmary for you so you can stop with bad criticism to shut down discussion:

- I'm not calling for changes or nerfs, besides insta-saw

- I'm not saying Hillbilly is OP

- I'm looking at his skill floor, not celing. Don't mention curves or flicks.

- I do not believe Hillbilly to be this "gold standard of balance".


So, with recent events, it seems that Hillbilly is now in the spotlight for everyone's hate. It was Nurse, then she got re-worked. It was Spirit, then Prayer Beads and Phasing body-blocking was removed.

While both Nurse and Spirit had actual problems, and I know that I personally hate on Hillbilly all the time, but I have a very serious issue to bring up that really is a genuine cause for concern. And that is that for the very little mechanical skill that Hillbilly does actually require, he's WAY to strong. And potentially the single STRONGEST killer in Dead by Daylight.


Hillbilly is a very straight forward killer, you have a chainsaw dash that will destroy pallets in (roughly) a 5th of the time it takes to break them normally, you have an incredibly fast dash ability (faster than a Survivor "Haste" effect) that can be sustained across an entire map and it's all tied to an instant-down ability, that only requires you to hold an activation button. With base killer statistics. And the coolest camera animation for movement.


Nurse is literally slower than Survivors, but her blink ability is very good at shortening a chase and can bypass the map. A small price to pay. She does also have the shortest lunge attack range, and that is actually a problem right now for, what I can assume, is a lot of people.

And yes, I play her. On console no less, but at lower ranks for now as my main account, a low green is getting paired with nothing but high purples. Super frustrating for a stealth killer main.


Spirit has the smaller killer stats, and a fantastic chase power. Being able to traverse the map with great speed and being almost undetectable is quite good, but you have a trade-off of you can't actually see anyone. Only their scratch marks.


Both of these fine ladies who ruled the top ranks are both "M1" killers, and I hate that term since it's only a PC thing. Myers, Oni and Ghostface all have an instant down, but require some sort of interaction and a build up. They sacrifice time chasing or damaging generators in order to get their instant down. Otherwise they're just a basic attacking killer.


Now, a lot of people are going to cry "JUNGLE GYMS!" or "INFINITE LOOPS!", but we can't always use them. Not every Survivor is a running god with map knowledge over every variation of the maps. Some are more easy to mind game out of their hiding spots, or cut off loops.


There is also a concern of the player base for Hillbilly. With that amount of mobility, it's easy to exploit perks like Kindred and Borrowed Time so that they don't proc, while still camping and tunnelling. Nor the concerns of those who actively body-block with the chainsaw revved in order to score a cheap and easy down.


I am NOT saying at all that Hillbilly should be put on the level of Legion or Old Freddy, and I'm NOT saying that we should make killers even worse, but for such a killer who has one of the lower mechanical skills, and is so rewarding compared to Spirit, Nurse or Huntress, there is just no denying that there is a legitimate problem here. We should be rewarding those who are playing higher skill required killers.

Hillbilly is rated "Difficulty: Easy" on his character profile and after playing him for a while now, I believe it.



Make difficult killers great again.

Post edited by PigMainClaudette on
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Comments

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Did I forget to physically write the IMPLIED "Compared to other killers"?

    And yes, I acknowledge curving. Also, no I will not play in red ranks. I am not that sweaty. I am talking about chainsawing someone who is 5m in front of you.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Then why is he labelled as an "EASY" killer to play, where as someone like Doctor is labelled "HARD"? Shouldn't those labelled "HARD" require more mechanical skill, and therefore be more rewarding/powerful? THIS is the main point of my argument.

    Yes, a lot of Spirit's power is in the mind game, but that is due to how her power is based. Myers, Plague, Pig, Freddy, Trapper and Hag all require some level of resource management.


    There are respectable Billies out there, but I've faced so many that his image is permanently tainted, but it does not influence the bias of what I am saying. I never supported the Devs with Nurse changes, but I understood why they needed to happen. I supported the Devs in their Spirit changes, with body collision and Prayer Beads because they were a necessary change.


    And I personally find that curving Billy's saw is more about reading your opponent, and the occasional good weave, rather than mechanics.

    Can we both agree though that we'd all rather see a good Hillbilly than one of those obnoxious camping Leatherfaces, though? I hate him way more than Hillbilly.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I get that, but it just feels bad that Hillbilly can so easily out-perform old Doctor. I do see his new iteration as more of a Freddy than a Nurse.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I mean that I spent time trying to say how one of the easiest characters to pick up and play, and one that also has the largest amount of utility in one power, is kind of a problem.

    I outline how I have come to this conclusion and my own personal struggles against them, and I get dismissed as a salty player. I even say how other killers who have a higher skill floor are currently less rewarding than him.

    I even say "I WANT STRONG KILLERS, but I don't think that Hillbilly should rule the game as Nurse or Spirit has before." I don't mind him being good, just not THE best killer in the game.



    And I get dismissed, told to try ridiculous challenges, offered no explanation as to why Billy should be stronger than other former top-tier characters.

    But no real feedback. Nobody actually considering that I might just have a point based on the comments here. Just people explaining to me things that I already know about how the rating ssytem is wrong and why. Or that what I've observed is wrong simply because one other person hasn't.

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 814
    edited January 2020

    Devs stated multiple times that Billy is their go to when it comes to balance. Its not that he is too strong, its other killers that are too easy to bully with second chances and bodyblocking. Oh you bodyblock? So you get the chainsaw, enjoy. He is what killers are supposed to be, dangerous during every stage of the trial but not broken.

    You can 360 chainsaw and that is not too hard. Smart Billy will just wait but answer to this is not doing 1 spin, just 360 until he uses it. He is also weak to looping, if you know how use 4 major maze tiles you are safe. When you do stupid mistake though he is the killer that will punish you, just like Myers and Leatherface. But the truth is, you will have much easier time against Billy than Trapper or Clown (anti loop specs). If you are good survivor. If not then you are easy prey while other killers have to hit you twice, wasting much more time on you.

    Imo he is the strongest when comparing time to learn to effectiveness, but good Nurse (even this ######### nurfed crap we have now) will outperform Billy against smart survivors. Problem with Nurse now, she is way harder to get into than ever and actually not fun to play even if you go into her.

    Edit: If you think something is overpowered but not because of a bug then abuse it. Best argument is always and example showed.

    Edit2: @ABannedCat I agree with you but I don't think he is overrated, even with m1 only, his mobility on bigger maps is a winning factor and shear possibility of having that instadown on cramped maps prevents survivors from stealth play (i really have good time as Billy on Lery's because of it).

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I'm not denying that pros can do some fantastic things with Billy, but it's like Mercy or Lucio in Overwatch. Very little is required at a basic level, but there is build up. Just not enough for me.

    I'm not exactly new. I've been playing since Legion's release, but not all of us can exactly recognise god-loops. Or run a killer for days.

    I'm at rank 5 on console at time of post playing stealth. Not much looping.

    And balancing every other killer around him says a lot about the state of the game then. I do want every other killer to meet Billy in power, but as a baseline, he has literally everything except Stealth. I'd rather see Freddy as this golden standard.

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 814
    edited January 2020

    @PigMainBigBrain I like Freddy, he can make fun plays. Thing i like the most is he has "high mobility" without making him so strong in chases like Nurse is, and since she is no longer high mobility we have kind of a balance.

    But honestly i think Freddy is stronger than Billy on higher level play. If survivors make no or very little mistakes his power actually helps securing the hits when Billy would be helpless. He is bullyable once exits are opened while Billy is not, so i like Billy more, he punishes recklesness like noone else xD.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 2,806

    Billy and Huntress rely on survivor mistakes to use their ability. Thats why they’re not the top killers even though they absolutely can devastate a survivor’s mistake.

    Spirit and Nurse were top of the chain because survivors (at least pre-nerf) couldn’t really stop the killer from getting them. OP, the players in this thread are trying to explain this about Billy.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    I love the hidden complexity of billy's power. As I get better and better as killer I have begun to prefer him over GF because GF is good for memes but is pretty basic.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,675
    edited January 2020

    Bubba being able to instantly down everyone in 1 second means he will always have the highest downing power potential in the game.

    Even oni has a higher downing potential then billy having effectively the same charge + it has AoE.

    Saying billy has the highest downing potential is always going to be factually wrong as long as there is AoE instant downs.

    Also billy does have a CD of about ~2.5 seconds after he charges as he has to wait for his chainsaw to finish swinging slowly and de-rev.

    I do however agree that him missing his chainsaw short range(Less then 2 seconds into his charge) should put him on a longer CD but him chainsawing you from the other side of the map while in the open moving in a straight line is your own fault.

    So how about this nerf compromise: Billy's ability bar is red while within the first 2 seconds of his charge.

    If Billy misses hit chainsaw(But didn't bump into a wall/pallet) while his bar is in the red he should stumble making him have the same ~4-5 second cooldown as if he did bump into a wall to stop billies from being too greedy with instant down saws.

    It doesn't stop his mobility(His main gimmick) but does help punish overly greedy billies who try to constantly fish for only instant downs.

    Edit: When I say Cooldown I mean his self stun where he can't do anything

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 814
    edited January 2020

    @ClickyClicky bro you complain about Billys potential to snowball, how about Plague, Myers or Trapper? GhostFace even, stalking to 99 and then activating it for one second as you touch survivor before anyone can flush you out of shround. Super out of character and logically stupid mechanic not making sense what so ever, unlike Myers. But it is in game, otherwise noone would play him. If survivors make mistakes Leatherface has the biggest punish and snowball potential, why not nerfing him? Because he is laughable if survivors are decent.

    Edit: Early downs, how about Myers grabs, op?

  • underlord99underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    lol I've been playing billy in red ranks without perks or map offering for the past week and I have gotten nothing but 4ks.

  • AsePlayerAsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    I'm not even good at killer and I can still 4k with Billy lol.

    He is pretty ridiculous sometimes.

  • underlord99underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    yeah people act like he takes skill. I literally never played him before this week and I'm getting 4ks every game.

  • underlord99underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    want proof

    what's your sc? insta? let me send you some pics.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246
  • underlord99underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    what? you're crazy. you said doubt and I'm tryna send you proof.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246
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