Maybe because it's too early to say if he needs a nerf or buff now?
I've found that throwing pallets down early is a great counter to him
I don't consider him A rank, as he is still a m1 killer.
He lacks mobility, and all he has is tracking and anti-looping. Now both are good for A tier, except the tracking part can be completely negated by calm spirit and lockers.
That's what makes him B tier as his tracking can be completely negated. MM is an A tier killer as he has an insta-down, slugging potential, and stealth. None can be negated completely like doctors static blast.
Just today, I had 4 survivors (SWF) run calm spirit, which essentially made my tracking power drop significantly. I still beat them as they weren't too good, and that they forgot to do totems, but that fact his tracking power can be completely negated by a single perk, essentially makes him a B tier killer.
Also lets also mention that his static blast doesn't affect downed survivors, previously, the old Doctors static field could tier up survivors while downed. I feel like static blast should do the same.
I played doctor very much after he came out. Yes, his shock can deny any actions, but it has many flaws.
1. In some long loops, if i use shock, i won't catch up to them. Also, my range is not long enough to catch them before they get to the pallet.
2. Doc needs to shock survivors way earlier than the action survivor is about to do. If not, they still can throw down pallet or fast vault even they scream just before it. For base range, this is very difficult because too early, the deny duration expires, too late, they vault. You need to have a close distance to survivors to do this
3. Using shock loses resets your blood lust, even if it missed if i'm not wrong.
4. In very close range, you can dodge his shock very easily, like shocking survivors through some loop with a fence
If they increases the duration of deny or longer range, i would agree with the longer cooldown, but nerfing him without compensation is not good
So you want to give him the Legion treatment? And only 2 paragraphs of your whole post was necessary to make your point.
Yeah no not really. This certainly wouldn't be the Legion treatement, heck I even explain why this wouldn't be a big nerf in my main post. I guess you didn't understand the idea of this nerf and why I think it might need to be done in the future, but that's fine.
Perhaps. Like I said, I don't want this nerf to happen immediately. Just from all the experience I've gathered with Doctor up until now, I feel like a nerf might happen in the future, simply because I fear more and more people will start arguing that Doctor doesn't have enough counterplay, which is why I made this thread, to suggest what nerf I would like to see.
This thread wasn't done just because I feel like I lose against Doctor too many times within this short period of time. I made this thread based on my experience and observation of playing as Doctor, and I explain why exactly I think this nerf would be good, and what exactly this nerf would affect. I'm not saying I am right, just what change I would probably like to see for the Doctor, at least if more people start complaining about doctor, because I feel like I've gathered quite a bit of experience and knowledge with the new Doctor and how he works the last couple of days.
While you make excellent points, I think you are underestimating how much his tracking can be negated for the following reasons
1) Calm Spirit is not a meta perk. Out of a dozen games Wednesday, I saw only one person running Calm Spirit. Calm Spirit also does nothing for the impending madness which has generator slowdown potential. Most survivors loath to build for a specific killer unless it's a S Tier killer. Vast majority stick with their tried and true perks that work for all killers.
2) While the lockers are fine and dandy, they only work if the doc is very predictable with when he uses his Shock Burst. And even then, most of us who play doc regularly are already check lockers as the situation warrants it. If it ever became an issue were people are doing it regularly, we always have the option of running Iron Maiden and getting the tracking we were after anyway, but I doubt it will come to that.
I think you make some great points, and it makes me hopeful that the discussion of Doctor not having enough counterplay will never actually happen. Though I do think that the bigger a pallet loop is, the better it is for Doctor, assuming he has already been close enough to the survivor to shock him when he approached the pallet a first time.
You're definitely right with the second point. Especially with how maps are procedurally generated, you won't always be able to tell where a pallet is coming up early enough to shock a survivor.
I also didn't know that he does not get Bloodlust when using his shock, that's good.
Your forth point is also right, but that's the one aspect I wanted to buff a bit for survivors. Right now, dodging his shock therapy won't do anything in most cases since dodging his shock therapy also means survivors outposition themselves, which means the Doctor will get a hit against the survivor anyways. By increasing the cooldown, survivors will have slightly more time to reach the pallet they are looping and use it against Doctor if they managed to dodge Doctor's shock therapy, despite them getting outpositioned because he can't attack them for a short period of time after using shock therapy.
But maybe this nerf won't be needed. I do agree that an increased range to his shock therapy would be a good compensation for this nerf, should have mentioned that.
I take back all my thoughts on the rework for Doctor being a nerf. In no way, at all, was this a nerf. I couldn't play doctor before, and never really put in the time to learn how. Kept him at level 1, only used him for the easy "Shock 4 ppl lul" daily. Well just used him since the rework to get the Doctor Archive. Whoa and behold. Here I am with new Doctor in hand. Saw other people play him. Well let's see how this works.
I proceeded to potato stomp 3 redranks, and a level 6 purple rank all with meta perks, with a level 1 doctor w/ Monitor and Abuse.
I [BAD WORD] you [BAD WORD] not.
Now i'm not saying he's OP, i'm not saying to nerf him.
but no seriously that is broken af - nerf soon
His counterplay is literally the same as every other killer - sit on generators. That's it. He's barely better than he was before, and he'll suffer from massive maps like the majority of the cast. If you don't get greedy vs doctor, you'll stomp all over him.
If the killer has counterplay, which you claim he does...and hes not overpowered, which you claim hes not...why do you wanna nerf him?
Because I am simply worried that it isn't enough counterplay. Like he has counterplay, but it's hard to tell if it's a fair amount or just very little counterplay that he has.
In that case people will catch on to this sooner or later, and that's why I wanted to make a post about how I think Doctor should be nerfed if it comes to that. Perhaps I'm just a bit paranoid that the devs will make a mistake and the Doctor will end up with a Legion treatement, even though I don't actually believe that would happen.
I mean I really don't think he is op or anything. Definitely not broken. All I think is that he might need a bit better counterplay for survivors, that's all. An increased cooldown to his shock therapy would achieve this.
But in general I think he is a very well balanced killer. Fairly good map pressure with his strong tracking ability, and strong in chases.
No nerf needed. Sit back and watch the babies cry, they're not entitled to escaping against doc.
To be fair this small nerf I suggested is not based on my experience of stomping players who aren't that good with survivors yet, but rather on my observation and experience of how Doc works and how well he can counterplay at loops.
But perhaps he might not need any nerf in the end. I would be happy, but if he does need a nerf, I pray BHVR will nerf him by increasing his cooldown after shock therapy, and not in any other way.
Lol doctor still is a very weak killer. Better tracking and slightlyMore ease of use but his game delay was gutted.
Without add-ons his shock is so easy to dodge and is not even that good at stopping loops against half component survivors. Just an m1 guy with tracking. Just learn how to loop him. If he shocks just keep running since it slows him down still.
They tore madness up, that way more than enough so quit crying. He's easier to beat now anyway
I'm not crying though.
In my experience, if you keep running around a loop whenever he shocks you, he will catch up to you and get a hit against you. Now that he doesn't have to switch stances anymore, his shock is so much more effective at loops. That's why I suggested to buff one of his counterplays slightly.
I wouldn't mind a different buff to him as compensation, increasing the time to snap out of it for example.
He's anti stealth and always has been, which is annoying to certain players. He's an m1 killer and static blast has a 1m cooldown so you *can't* just spam it. I think he's in a great spot right now. He is definitely not A tier or whatever imo.
"Annoying" means "Takes mild effort to escape from" to these people, it's so grossly dishonest
It's not like it's godly strong right now. I think it's not needed since the counterplay is there and with the slight slowdown doc can't be guaranteed to catch up just by shocking alone.
And the most important thing, it would feel so bad and unenjoyable to increase the CD further.
Legion has a 4 second cool down on his ability that cripples his game play. You want to add a cool down on doctor. I actually read and understood your obnoxiously long post chief. At this point, any nerf to doctor would be too soon.
Nope, even another little nerfs will be big slap into killers face. Now its time to nerfing survivors and their perks.
They’ve been doing that for the past year and a half or so.
I dont think he really needs to be nerfed. Surviviors will learn how to counter his power as time passes, nerfing him this early and in this particular area would probably backfire as soon as surviviors learn to counter him
I don’t think this is entirely necessary. Survivors just need to adjust their approach to loops and pallets, and perhaps be prepared to drop them early rather than attempt a stun (like if they were matched against Clown)
If he couldn't cancel vault animations especially if they were quick vaults i would be okay with whatever. But i find it completely BS that its a 50/50 if you can vault because of his power. It happens even more now than it did with Old Doctor. Quick Vaults should be more rewarding than they are. Because vaulting in general anymore just means you get hit because of dedicated servers.