Spine Chill gives you a small window to avoid a Wispers using Doc. Again Calm Spirit counters him. Scratched Mirror Myers does completely negate stealth yes. But a killer with specific addons to counter stealth is a hell of alot different from a base game mechanic.
stealthin Dbd is pretty much nonexistent especially in red ranks ..your wasting time stealthing around the map you only really see it in the lower ranks
Wasting time in your opinion. I'm not talking about Urban Evading around the entire map.
"Good idea, lets not do this" -devs
I’m done arguing with you lol I can tell you don’t care if gens go to fast or about killers fun ..it’s all about the survivors fun guys!
An idea like this I can get behind, unlike all the “add time to gens!” or “make survivors collect gas!” crap that buffs camping and tunneling. This does nothing for that, and only gives the killer an assist where it’s needed at the start of the game. Sounds fair.
All they said was that they don't want stealth play to be punished even more than it already is, and somehow you took that to mean that they don't care about game speed or killers having fun? That's some seriously impressive mental gymnastics.
Yeah, I don't care if gens are done too fast. Pay no attention to where I said above that I agree there needs to be an early game slow down. It's not like I've made threads in the past with suggestions on how to slow the early game. I certainly didn't oppose the Ruin nerf. It couldn't possibly be I just think this particular way of slowing the game is a bad idea.
@Fibijean @thrawn3054 With all do respect stealth would still be a play style just not an early game one basically meaning if you are found first just loop you can still play stealthy mid to late game its not completely crapping on the playstyle all this does is add more killer and survivor interaction early game which honestly is healthy for the game.
Calm Spirit does not counter doc if they run Restraint (or Iri king and get good rng that gives them the restraint effect) your madness still tiers up so it still reveals your aura.
If nothing happens they'll know to check lockers
@ScottJund Also props to you man this idea is honestly the best i have seen proposed its healthy for both sides while finding the sweet spot to help killers and also making for a fun early game!
A big part of stealth is the early game. Getting stuff done early is crucial for it.
I should rephrase that it doesn't completely counter Doc. But it does severely limit him.
I agree that killer/survivor interaction is healthy, but I don't believe it should come at the cost of what we might call player freedom or agency. The point - at least, my point - is that players shouldn't be forced to play the game a certain way, at any stage. If stealth is a mechanic in your game, if you have dozens of perks dedicated to pulling it off, you shouldn't be actively discouraging players from employing it. As I said, I think the concept has merit, I would just like to see it adjusted to be less punishing on those who enjoy and design their builds around stealth play, while still remaining enjoyable for the killer, if such a thing is possible.
Still though stealth can have a impact mid to late game it's not like this change completely cripples this idea and honestly all this means is early game you just play stealthy until the killers finds a survivor there you go you can still technically play stealthy.
It would actually be way easier and more effective to simply change the way skill checks work on generators.
1) Put a 2 charge-per-second cap to generator speed. No matter how many survivors, toolboxes, perks, etc., you can NEVER repair a gen faster than x2 speed basically. 40 seconds would be the absolute fastest you could do a gen barring great skill checks (see #3/4).
2) Rework charges per second of individual survivors when they group up on a gen. Right now it goes 80s - 44s - 33s - 28s. The charges per second should be adjusted so that, at base, the times would be 80s - 60s - 50s - 40s.
3) Remove great skill check zones from repair actions until 2 gens are done or a survivor is hooked. Let's call this the "opening phase" of the game.
4) Toolboxes no longer increase repair speed. Instead toolboxes increase both the frequency of skill checks and the size of great skill check zones. Maybe they could also provide great skill check zones during the opening phase where they would normally be absent.
5) Rework toolbox add-ons to work with the new toolboxes. Either they increase frequency of skill checks or the size of great skill check zones. BNP should do both at the cost of reducing charges on the toolbox slightly (80 to 70 for example).
6) Rework some survivor/killer perks where the new system might not work right. For example, Unnerving Presence would both decrease the size of the skill check zones and removes great skill checks completely (unless they have a toolbox). Prove Thyself could give an extra 1% boost to great skill checks for all survivors repairing a gen within 8m of that survivor. Stuff like that.
IMO doing this would benefit the game WAY more. Scott's idea is nice but I don't see it making a big impact in the long term. The fact it ends so easily with just a chase starting makes me thing there would be serious cheese going on somewhere. I mean just imagine as killer walking through corn, a survivor runs in front of you where you can't see, starts a chase, and now gens can go at normal pace while you lose the survivor in the corn. IDK I just see a lot of holes in the idea.
@thrawn3054 i never understood what's so fun about stealthing? There is so small amount of interaction between killer and survivor,if there's any tbh at all. Enlighten me
Yeah i mean its not like you still cant play stealthy early game again the idea is based around an early game interaction so all that means is you just wait until he finds another survivor then you can start your objectives i dont think this really hurts stealth i mean does it punish hiding and not being found yeah but honestly im not against that. The developers have said looping is what the game has become and they have accepted it with all do respect just learn how to pallet loop and there ya go stealth will still be useful throughout the game but if this change is added whispers needs a serious change.
Which still wastes your time in the early game. Your forced to dive at the killer early or lose a massive amount of time. That's not even getting into all the extra toolboxes you would see to counter the early game slow down.
I mean you are not technically "forced" to run at the killer you can just wait until he finds someone else also Toolboxes are not the biggest problem you can wipe through gens without them you can still have a 2 minute game without them they only increase the speed. Gen times are still a problem.
In regards to the stealth argument just wait until he finds someone else there ya go the generator penalty would be gone you can easily do so and honestly if this was to come into the game id imagine Whispers would need a change so that would reward stealth gameplay even more.
Here's one thing though:
Most killers I have played against will flatout quit the game if they don't find someone in the first 2 mins(Which is a suggestion addendum).
its simply because while successfully hiding is fun(Even though I do like looping a lot I still try stealth when applicable) for the survivor you might just bore/frustrate the killer out of the game if they can't find anyone within 2 mins.
Stealth is fun but the fun of the killer needs to be considered as well.
I suppose for me it's the fun of trying to not get seen. The tension of knowing if you are seen you probably can't run to safety in time. To me hiding from the killer gives me more of that horror movie aspect I originally expected from this game. I'm a huge Halloween fan so trying to hide from Myers is great. Especially when you don't see him at first and he's stalking you. Gives me a little jump. Like [BAD WORD] how long have you been there.
Which still leads to alot of wasted time early game.
I've had it happen a couple of times actually. I agree that the killers fun matters. That's why I want a second objective to slow the game and give them time. I just dislike this idea of trying to force interaction.
It's not that people can't loop or play aggressively, it's that they don't enjoy it as much. No one ever claimed that Scott's idea negates stealth completely, only that it punishes it in the early game, which it does. Stealthy players still want to be useful. No one has fun just hiding in the grass in the corner waiting for someone else to get found so they can start being useful.
I'll say it again - it's a good idea, and it has merit, but I think it's a problem that it essentially makes survivors useless until they (or someone else) gets found by the killer. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to contribute to your opponent's objective in order to start making progress on your own.
I mean i dont know about you but about 90% of the stealth players i see hear a heartbeat and waste time running away even if the killer is in a chase with that being said it's not wasted time the thing is it's 4 to 1 you are telling me that the chances of a good looper trying to get the killers attention which would remove the penalty wont happen if you are i completely disagree with you on that.
I think you can already stealth in @ScottJund's idea because you can just wait for the killer to find someone else first. Then after the TWU, you can just jump on a generator. 😁
That's true, but as I explained above, it's also missing the point. Survivors shouldn't have to wait for the killer to start making progress on their objective, or go out of their way to make that happen, before they can make any meaningful headway with their own.
That's a problem with bad stealth players. So many of them don't use their heads. You are right that there will be the games where their is the player that wants to loop gets in chase quickly. Unfortunately a good chunk of those players are bad at looping/think they're better than they are.
But it only requires 1 survivor to end this mode.. the other 3 could still be stealthy.
Read my comments above. The point is that they only have two choices - throw themselves at the killer, or be useless. There is no option to be both stealthy and substantially useful in the early game under this system, and therein lies the problem.
Actually, a survivor shouldn't be able to stealth their objective easily, which is why you need to know when it's perfect to use stealth. Using stealth early game can help you avoid the killer and start working on a generator, odds are, the killer is going to find someone else and you will lose the penalty. Someone will have to be the first target, regardless of you like that or not — if survivors could just get by stealth, then they can lead into boring games for both sides.