Being 100% honest. No, I don't see anything scummy about what has happened in that scenario. You're moaning about a team working together.
The person body blocked to protect the person you hit before they unhooked them so it is protecting that first person(Rescuer) and their team from having a survivor down. Back to the scenario - you didn't have to hit them but you did because they blocked you, which is fine and it triggered BT. I'm not sure how you could lose the rescuer when being distracted for a second when hitting the person with BT though, but if you struggle to see someone then that's your issue.
You chased them to a locker and they have jumped in and you have to deal with DS. Do you have to deal with it? They're already in deep wound and they aren't running if they are in that locker, so wait for them to drop and leave them on the floor. Easy.
I assume you also class healthy survivors lining up behind an injured survivor on the way to the exit gate as scummy too?
I wouldn't say that's an issue at all, because window teching becomes useless if you just moonwalk when you vault a window. It's an easy free hit and it shouldn't ever catch you out
@MPUK don't really wanna join your fancy conversation, but you somehow throw in points randomly and biased, I just have to comment to show how tunnel visioned that seems to me.
"abuse" is not only @ermsy wording, that is quite commonly used in this forum regarding bugs and perks used for an advantage that should not be in place.
"A scummy survivor tactic? Because they are using a single use perk?" So a single use Mori is fine? And single use is not justifying anything, if it is simply too strong. Initial BNPs were single use and finished a gen instantly. Game breaker. Period. DS is not that strong, but it definitely can flip the coin.
The argument with queue times: you really want to justify bad perk design with queue times? Keeping survivors in the trial as long as possible because they have to wait longer? Like, all survivors should best escape, the killer can jump from one [BAD WORD] match to the next without queue time. Really, that are two different topics.
You make pretty many assumptions on what other people say and are allowed to or not. Just saying. Many post from you are pretty generalizing. Btw there are not only "mains" bitching on the opposing side. There are also survivor mains saying "Instaheals needed to go" and 50/50 players complaining on both sides. Just as example.
Instaheals were not nerfed because killer mains were crying, they reverted a complete chase, which means, if you commit to the chase, there will be another around 30 seconds gone at least which means there is another gen probably done. If you quit the chase, you just wasted the time that you put into the chase. Same outcome.
You don't see anything scummy at all? Yes the person bodyblocked to protect the rescuer using an anti-camp perk...did I camp? No. The same survivor forced my attention towards them and went into the locker just so I can eat a DS...did i tunnel? No.
Granted in this scenario you are right, you can wait for the survivor due to deep wound as long as they don't have inner strength and/or headon but if they did have those perks as well then your in a lose/lose scenario.
Either way it's hypocritical to think these kinds of strategies are ok but camping and tunnelling isn't. Then again you also think it's ok for survivors to play scummy anyway.
Lining up behind a survivor isn't scummy.
People are terrified of DS for some reason, if you can get rid of it early, do it and stop being scared of a stun
I dont personally come across ds that often moreso i get hit by bt all the time. (I main impossible skillcheck doctor) goodluck hitting a ds that is 60% smaller (then again people hit unnerving presence overcharge somehow so i still do get hit even with UP).
You are calling working together as a team to make sure more people are on their feet is "scummy" because it isn't helping you get people down. Standing still next to a hook is boring and game ruining. Tunnelling is very much the same, sacrificing the killer's game in order to remove fun for someone else. Again, scummy.
It isn't an anti-camp perk. Yes that is the majority of its use but at no point does it state this perk will only trigger if you are camping and survivors can only use it if you are camping. It is terror radius related and your terror radius was by the survivor being unhooked.
What perks and add-ons do you use for that build? I've never tried it.
Distressing to make tr bigger overcharge for obvious reasons lullaby so if they fail overcharge lullaby stacks for like a 15 percent regression. (And you can do this multiple times) and unnerving presence to make all skillchecks 60% smaller (including overcharge and ds) and for addons new iridescent king would be amazing or the addon that makes random reverse skillchecks. So a reverse smaller with more regression overcharge skillcheck. (AND PEOPLE STILL HIT THESE)
It isn't the fact that the team is working together that is the problem. It's the use of a 60 second invincibility to achieve it. What is the killer suppose to do in that situation?
I don't know why you can't comprehend the difference.
Nah, you've tagged in now. I'm done lol
How is it abusive at all if the killer can simple come back to the hook and a locker is nearby? It is a legit strat.
It’s not like the locker renders the survivor unable to be pulled out. Same concept as when the killer leaves survivors on the ground over and over and over... they still die right? Even tho we can consider that to be abusive.
I don't disagree with you. Personally, I couldn't care less if the killer goes back to the hook and the survivor hops in a locker. They're using their "don't tunnel" perk to stop the killer from tunneling.
The time where it starts to get abusive is when they use that to work on a nearby generator, they hop in a locker whenever you get close.
Yeah it really on gets op at end game. Get rid of it early and no worries
Heyo, just popping in to say that unnerving presence does not affect DS anymore
@ermsy Try as addon also the one that increases the TR while Static Blast is ready (the reverse skillchecks are not really difficult in my opinion). And bring indoor maps offerings because they are small. With double TR addons, in the middle of Hawkins, there is no place outside the TR. Just get to the middle of indoor maps and blast, there you got your targets. After that you don't use your Blast that often to keep up the TR all over the map. Later you can use it again when you think gens are save and you don't know where survivors are, especially late game when you manage to not have 3 ultra spread gens, the lowered TR + Distressing still is big enough to cover all the closer gens. Just don't forget kicking gens to apply Overcharge.
did not know that but it is ds so of course (enduring was nerfed and ds was buffed because of enduring effecting it) surprise surprise both of ds's counters don't effect it anymore.
I was watching an Umbra stream, and she mentioned that she spoked with some other people, and the idea they came up with for DS is simple;
DS activates when you come off hook. If another survivor is hooked. It deactivates. Unless you are in dying state when the other survivor is hooked - to avoid the case where you get unhooked unsafely, and are immediatly downed by the killer, then left there to slug.
Doesn't really resolve the issue with abusing lockers/generators/windows/pallets/hook saves to force the DS skilcheck, but it does make it more involved with actual tunneling. Though having it deactivate while performing an action would help that a lot.
Heck they could just pull a Hex: Ruin nerf on the perk, and that would make everyone use Borrowed Time more, and at the same time give Borrowed Time a buff that it works when the killer is within x meters of the hook - instead of terror radius.
@Peanits Honestly I wouldn't even care about if a survivor does "work on a nearby generator, they hop in a locker whenever you get close". If taking the DS stun didn't strike my Malicious emblem.
This kinda comes from the wishy-washy stance the devs have taken in defining this as a *team" game. They want to encourage solo play but optimized it for SWF. But they still want to try and balance around solo. Only more recently trying to fix some SWF issues
If tunneling is a valid strategy so is jumping into the locker with DS is a valid strategy
What the hell are you talking about?? Dead by Daylight is designed in the way that survivors will make mistakes and get downed. That's the whole concept of this game. Or are you telling me that survivors should be able to 5 gen run rank 1 killers if they don't make mistakes? That's nonsense.
By the time that survivor is found again there is no longer 60 seconds. You’ve said it yourself before.
I understand that to some the use of DS to its full potential might seem abusive but where do you draw the line? The killer could for all we know “pretended” to walk away, only to turn around and keep tunneling that survivor... after they got on a gen.
The perk never stopped the tunneler from tunneling, it merely bought that survivor some time. I just don’t understand why people see it as abusive when there are built in mechanics on the killer side like Camping and Slugging, that are “abused” And no one is complaining about that, even tho survivors have made it very clear that it is annoying and sometimes unfair.
I just think at this point DS is being nit-picked. It is probably in the best place it has been.
Serious question why is it only considered abusive if they decide to work on a gen and not say unhook survivors/heal them or anything like that?
Nobody has said that it isn't, that's just an example. Nothing is confirmed yet.
A lot of the ideas are more concerned with favoring The Killer on a Perk intended to remedy a Survivor problem. I've always said DS doesn't do enough to address tunneling, for starters it only works once. The Killer can easily counter the counter without a Perk or much effort, just slug. And then the one Survivor counter to that is a one-time use Unbreakable lol And that's another firestorm discussion for people here about how unfair that Perk is. Imo The Killer should be able to face camp, tunnel, slug but Survivors should have a way to deal with these scenarios.
I appreciate you guys looking into this.
I think you can really see the problem when it is arguably better for the Killer to eat DS early then not tunnel.
I Honestly think that the main issue with DS is the Timer, a full minute of immunity is just too much. I think reducing it to 40 seconds would be the best option over a complete rework. at least then it's still useful against tunneling but not so much that you feel invincible while also being long enough that slugging isn't exactly ideal either.
It is too early to discuss this right now. But ds is not strong they really exaggerate. I stopped taking DS because I eat all kinds of heavy camps and tunnels. DS always wait for the time to expire, then when the time is over, they pick it up off the ground and hang it. It doesn't matter if you abuse DS. Every killer has the power to abuse his advantages and is free to use any deficit. In the past, murderers knew how to deal with this, because skill control ds would arrive within 3 seconds of being picked up from the ground.
However, the nerf came up and they applied this method again, and the solution for this was the skillcheck while we were picked up directly from the ground and this was great. However, murderers will abuse all kinds of mechanisms to gain all kinds of advantages. Decisive strike is not strong enough to punish the tunnel. But as I said, it's really early to discuss this. If you ask why:
3.6.0 version will come, however map dimensions will be resized, pallet amount will change, safe places will be reduced and there will be frangible walls. What solutions will we resort to if it really causes a big problem for the survivors? Especially when we use Deliverance + DS, the killers get angry with us and do not leave us until we die. Now that means we're using this feature badly? The killer wants us to die of any kind.
Now you are thinking nerf because of the Salvation advantage? If this nerf comes in, it would be really bad, because if the killers find out that we're off the hook on our own, the killer will do their best to end my life immediately. The old DS should be brought back, but as I said to everyone, it has to go through a little test and this will answer version 3.6.0.
What everyone says is not my concern. Murderers are free to exercise their legal rights, but this is true for survivors. I don't care what everyone says, killers are free to play as they want, but this is true for survivors. They are free to use their advantages for good faith or malicious purposes. Nobody can interfere with freedom of play! However, as I said, it is too early to discuss it. Don't forget what I'm saying @Peanits. Even in the old DS, 4K was still easy to do. You just enlarge it in your eyes. DS is not strong.
There's a simple solution to this problem. every killer now becomes a trapper main. Someone hops in a locker? trap it. See? problem solved