How do people still not realize that tunneling is one of the only ways to create permanent pressure.
hex_genrush
Member Posts: 736
A loss of one teammate is detrimental to the team, and if eliminated early can easily assure you a 4k or drastically decrease the time crunch. Yes I know, nobody likes to get tunneled, but sometimes it’s really the only way depending on the killer you are playing , survivor skill level , and map. Now please spare me of that “ oh well you just need to git gud and adapt, I 4k every game with perkless clown on haddon field at red ranks and I never tunnel or camp. Your just an entitled killer main who wants an easy win.” Talk because it’s complete bull and does nothing to contribute to a discussion and puts down whoever’s talking about it
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Yes it is, but have you ever been on the end of a hardcore tunnelling killer? I spend at LEAST 10 times as long in a lobby screen, just to be harassed by the killer out of the game, even with Decisive Strike. Killers DON'T CARE if they truly want to tunnel you out of the game, and it makes me question ever buying into this game.
I don't want to sit in Lobby Simulator for 20 minutes, only to be deleted within 2. Especially when I never provoke a killer.
Maybe come up with a better idea that this ideology doesn't have to exist, rather than promoting a style of play that is only good for 1/5 players within every match.
There is no way that someone can convince me that tunnelling is healthy for the game. I don't care about killers, including myself, getting a 4k for a majority of matches. The game is designed around a 2-2 system ffs. Maybe killers just need to shift their focus from securing kills to protecting generators.
Maybe look at why killers tunnel? Then make adjustments?
"Tunneling" is not even a valid complaint!
Capitalizing on weakness by quickly getting rid of the weak link is common sense. Kinda hypocritical if the same people suggesting the Killer should give up the chase against a good Survivor in a strong loop complain about "tunneling" a weak Survivor to death, specially if said Survivor is injured and/or caught in a bad position.
Let's not forget that Survivors are at a vunerable spot when trying to save each other, so contesting the save is one of the best ways of snowballing.
Honestly, "Tunelling" is more often than not Survivors falling to cope with the fact their lives are disposable. You are 25% of your opponent, so sometimes the best you can do is buy as much time as possible for the other 75%.
Tunneling sucks, but sometimes it is a necessary evil.
However tunneling someone from the start will often lose you the game , especially with a decent looper. I know what my teammates are doing when you tunnel me all game. That's right, gennys.
So why I understand the use of this tactic at certain points in a game, i would not recommend it at the start. It is best to split pressure as much as possible and then later it may be necessary to get one survivor out to swing momentum back to the killer.
For me, you tunnel me for 5 gennys and 3 get out, that is a win
But why do you feel the need to do it anyway, when I haven't done anything to warrant it? I don't abuse BT, DS, Flashlights or anything like that, but somehow just because they can or because I play a basic Claudette or P3 Yui, I'm fair game.
bHVR have proven one thing before: They'll change something when one side is getting their way too much according to statistics. If survivors escape too easily more often, then bHVR will actually do something about it, but when killers are actively boosting the statistics with false data, by tunnelling, camping and using Mori's then nothing will be done. Same as the Pig buffs that a lot of people have asked for, but Almo has stated that according to the statistics, she's "in a good place".
Tunneling is bad at creating pressure unless the survivors just don't heal. If you're facing good survivors, they'll pound out gens while you tunnel that one guy. And then they'll use DS and use BT (both of which are also strategies for wasting the killer's time) to keep you off them a little while longer. Tunneling works well against weaker survivors, but good survivors will enjoy having zero pressure to pound out generators. Now if survivors aren't healing, then tunneling might be necessary. Or if you simply can't find other survivors. But if you have a choice between Unhooked Survivor and Guy Who Saved Him, I'm going for the guy who saved him 99% of the time. The unhooked guy will take time to heal (and might even take someone else off a gen for a while to get healed up if he doesn't have a medkit), and the guy you're chasing won't be able to do generators either. Taking potentially three people off generators instead of trying to get one person out of the game (and then getting DS'ed)
I'm no red rank killer, but I do decently at rank 5/6. Usually when I do poorly its for one of four reasons, and not because I didn't tunnel:
#1. I couldn't find survivors. Wrath of Scantum Claudettes, I'm looking at you. Or I assume I'm looking at you. Maybe that's just a cloud of dust. IDK. Sometimes I go to the wrong spawn location, and that eats up a LOT of time.
#2. I committed to chases that I shouldn't have. "I'm bound to catch up to this player eventually. I'm faster than them. Surely I can catch them when they're running around the central building at Crotus Prenn. "
#3. Stupid Styptics. I can't imagine how the game was with instaheals. But I imagine its not too different from the STUPID STYPTICS
#4. Mistakes I made. I misjudge the distance to a hook, and a player wiggles free. I lose a survivor on the ground and spend way too much time looking for them.
I guess #5 could potentially be pallets. But I haven't had a game where pallets just made me want to tear my hair out lately. So either I've been lucky or I've gotten better.
You are having 20 min lobbys because no one wants to play as killer. If you are terrible enough to lose in 2 mins even with all the second change crutch perks survivors have than i have nothing to say to you.
You don't apply pressure by "protecting generators", you apply pressure by slugging survivors or putting them on the hook so they can't do their objective, and ultimately by removing them from the match.
My Pig would beg to differ. I play Gen-Protector and I do very well, actually. Surveillance on a Stealth killer is actually really good.
Then again, ALL of my killers would beg to differ.
You find survivors on generators, and you targe them. Done. Pressure applied, and a survivor is off the generator. Now chase them as normal. No tunnelling required.
What second chance perks? You think I run that boring meta trash? I run Self-Care in my builds ffs! The only meta perk I use is DS because of trashy tunnellers, and even then they don't leave you alone.
My numbers may have been an exaggeration, but my point isn't. I CANNOT PLAY the damn game because of tunnellers. It isn't even about fun at this point, it's not being able to do anything to combat unfair external factors, like the Xbox dedicated servers.
Gen speed isn’t in a good place. Survivors don’t want to hold M1 longer, because it’s unfun... but they don’t like tunneling (a strong counter to gen speed) because it’s unfun...
FYI I don’t tunnel because I play both sides and I know how absolutely unfun it is as survivor, but until gen speed gets fixed I will not judge or bad mouth killers who feel the need to do it
You will after 20 games of it. No joke.
As for gen-speeds, it all depends on rank and role. Killer? Too quick early, regardless of rank. Rank is then applied in a similar manner to that of the survivor's perspective. Survivor? Too slow in low ranks, good in mid, pretty fast in red.
Tunneling isn't effective against the players you'll need to tunnel. It won't be worth it against really good players. 3 or 4 gens will be done by the time you focus down one player. That's aside from the fact that it's a distasteful playstyle to tunnel from the outset. There are more effective ways to play.
Well, personally I think BHVR needs to make more subtle nods towards how everyone ‘wants’ the game to go and perks to encourage that. Like a bonus bp to killers for hooking (all survivors). Either a 1 time bonus for every time it happens or a bp bonus that builds as you play and maxes out when you 3 hook every survivor. More reason to encourage killers not to care so much about the tunnel or kill and try to spread the hooks out when possible.
Maybe not make the killer feel bad by having a bad game or letting all survivors escape. ENTITY DISPLEASED. Half the time I feel like the Entity is my mother and I’ve let her down by playing too fair, so I feel it’s more necessary to secure a kill (camp/tunnel) just to please the Entity.
You could add a new survivor perk that could rival ‘were gunna live forever’. I think survivors really need a new perk that grants stacks like (BBQ) and up to 100% bonus blood points. Personally, I think a portion of solo survivors are having a bad time because they are all trying to fight for the unhook and the killer really has no reason not to stay near the hooked survivor and play hook, rinse, repeat till the survivor is dead and the game becomes killer sided.
If say, you got stacks for healing complete health states (All perk related healing and mednkits/add ons are debatable but I’d suggest self care didn’t stack) then it would encourage survivors to heal/work together and slow down the game. So now we could reward altruistic plays and healers, hopefully splitting the desire of certain survivor roles and not having everyone mad dash to the hooked survivor or farm the randoms.
I’d also be down for the same idea but for completing a complete generator. I mean gen jockeys are also a thing and a necessary part of a team when things are looking bad. Sometimes it’s the gen jockey who keeps the killer pressured when the other three are saving/healing/distracting/hanging and why not also give them a perk that takes up a slot but rewards them BP for working gens.
My point is, we can point fingers at the community all we want but at the end of the day, most of us are just trying to work out the bp grind and BHVR has offered only 2 perks that really help with that. BBQ is great for killers because it rewards the killer for not tunneling 1 survivor to death by at least securing 1 hook for each survivor before anything else. Me with BBQ and without will change my mindset in the game. I never feel like a loser, If I snagged a load of BP, even if every1 escapes.
We’re gunna live forever also encourages survivors to save each other and try to help save each other in mid chases and take hits or aggro. This is great BUT not if every survivor is trying to do the same thing. Survivors need a more group mentality and to be the most effective team by having different roles as their main objective. Less reward for being a team healer or gen jockey right now, better to be the crazy guy mad dashing to every chase and hook to score more bp.
Just saying BHVR. Simply reward the killer and survivor playstyles that you feel will make the game more healthy. People will still be toxic but many others would be more tolerable to the negative aspects of this game if it helped with the grind. I’d ignore a near death Jake for a never hooked before Nancy (giving up my chance to swing the game in my favor, if it meant I could secure a bp bonus despite what happens afterwards), in a heart beat.
if you feel the need to defend your “play style” then there is probably something wrong with it lmao. I don’t even hook AFKs let alone tunnel as their queue times are bad enough and yet I still usually 3-4K 90% of the time
also your lack of empathy for survivors in general is blatant
I hook AFK's. They might disconnect, and then I miss out on BBQ.
I do agree that the game needs to start making it feel better for killers when they get 6+ hooks. I'd say 7 hooks should be a win for the entity, regardless of rank or how many people were actually taken out of the game.
It's one way to create pressure, but it's not necessarily a good way.
To give an example, you tunnel that one guy all game. They get saved with BT, you finally down them and get DS'd. Then they're saved again with BT.
All of that is an awful lot of time for the other three healthy survivors to do generators. You're leaving them with nothing else to do. They're all healthy, nobody that's not in a chase needs healing, so the only thing they have left to do is generators. Yes, things would slow down after that one guy dies, but that's only if all the gens aren't done by then. If the guy you're tunneling is decent at the game, that's going to give them plenty of time to do the gens.
Short version, yes, that guy being dead is going to help later in the match, but only if there's still a match left by the time you kill them.
tl;dr op can only handle a 3v1 omegalul
For me a much better way of applying pressure when a survivor immediately unhooks in front of me or the survivor I am chasing runs to the hook and unhooks is to down the unhooked, it stops the unhooker getting their bonus for safe unhook and then carry on after the unhooker. The unhooked person now needs someone to come and get him off the floor whilst you chase the other.
As a survivor I don't mind that play either. It is the really desperate abandoning a chase with unhooker to down the unhooked and throw them straight back on the hook that I find embarrassing for the killer when I am a survivor. Too scared to play properly. Always come up with an excuse though, usually gen rush. When the reality is they spent too long on someone in the first place.
Your just an entitled killer main who wants an easy win. <---- Thats exactly what your post comes down to at all.
I tihnk sometimes by tunneling people imply taking out survivor as fast as possible.
you would have a freddy icon...
you're only talking about the result. nvm the process of downing them. well if were neglecting the process of doing something. taking out a survivor while the 3 other just finishing a gen. whats worse, if the other 3, just like the dev said, has BT, DS. then more gens complete if you neglect all 3 of them
If the first person being chase isn't a complete potato and the other are doing the objective you can easily do 2-3gen by the first hook. And by your 6-7th hook survivors can easily do 4gens. Believe me most killer would like to have the chance of hooking 2-3 different survivor before going back to the first one they hook but the game depend on how skilled survivor are and not or the killer's skill. In fact killer's mistake make your chases last way longer.
BTW it's not hard at all to get a 2k just by camping and tunneling.
Also I have no problem being decent against a full random team of red ranks but have a hard time going against a 3-4 swf in purple rank just because they have the advantage of coms. I do believe SWF is good because many people like to play with friend but can you guys balance the game around them and give free perks/ advantage to lonely survivor to balance it out?
yeah i would suggest free survivor aura reading to that only solo queue players. but i guess a lot of killer would complain so nvm
Your problem is continuing to make this all a personal attack. We're all just playing a semi competitive game here, we all want to win at the end of the day. That isn't always possible for both sides (as much as they seem to balance towards that being the case)
Maybe taking a break will help with some perspective. It helped me alot
No i mean if killer chase others too but trying to eliminate survivor that has less lifes that sometimes implies as tunneling i believe since there s no other well known term for that around here
ahhh then as a survivor ill just do my best to run away from you while being mindblown why do I deserve this??? hahahahaha
Just give every survivor the same thing: auras, but then buff the killer in other ways to make it fair.
It is. But killers complain not because they can't create pressure, but because they don't want to resort to unfun tactics. That's why there is more tunneling and slugging since ruin change. Killers always had the option to kill off 1 person quickly, even make them suicide or dc they just didn't resort to it that much.
I dont tunnel. I do pretty well. Ill slug an unlucky survivor but I wont hook them twice in a row. Free map pressure especially if the unhooker is within chasing range.