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Dear Dead By Daylight: Survivor Perk Changes: Buffs (Excerpt)

Hey everyone,

You've probably seen this stuff floating around for awhile on the forums, but in case you didn't know, I uploaded a document (and accompanying forum post) titled Dear Dead by Daylight about awhile ago which has been getting incredible feedback from you guys here in the community, but the biggest suggestion was to split all the change ideas into multiple documents to make them easily digestible.

Today, we get into the meat of the changes. I've been giving suggestions for most of the killers up to this point, but there is a lot more than that that needs to be fixed. Today, I bring you suggestions for changing underpowered survivor perks. There are a lot of generally impractical or very flawed perks currently in Dead By Daylight. My goal is to have most perks be usable on some level without any of them dominating the meta.

If you want to know my reasoning for each perk or check out the rest of the changes, I'll leave a link to the main post as well as the previous article. Please leave constructive criticism and/or support, you're feedback is invaluable. Thanks again,

NorMak3

P.S. This list isn't perfect and I may change things on the main document based on new data, but I don't plan on changing anything on these fragment posts, so if something seems off, make sure to check the main document or comments to make sure it isn't already fixed.

(Also * means they change the detailed feature fundamentally or is able to replace the entire description on its own)

"

  • Deja Vu*: You can channel your thoughts in a way to see the nearest hook, chest, generator, hatch, or exit gate if you channel it for 10/7/5 seconds, performed by holding still away from objects and using the active ability button. If you fully charge it up, it creates a pathway of light that only you can see that lasts for 5/7/9 seconds. Additionally, if you charge it up all the way, you gain the hemorrhage effect, even if you’re not in the injured state; you will not go into the injured state in this scenario. If you don’t charge it up the way, it will give you a general direction in the form of small light cracks pointing in a 40° angle in its direction. This ability has a cooldown of 75 seconds. The path/cracks are color-coordinated: red is a hook, brown is a chest, yellow is a generator, and white is for hatches and doors.
  • Sole Survivor: The bonus is applied for any survivors in the dying state or on a hook and the bonus becomes 20/25/30 meters. Additionally, whenever someone is killed or sacrificed, you gain haste 4% for 60 seconds.
  • Up the Ante: The luck bonus is now just a straight 4% luck increase and you perform actions 5/10/15% faster whenever a generator is finished for 35 seconds.
  • Calm Spirit: Slightly reduce noise made by brush as well (30% less noise). Also let survivors scream when put on a hook or downed, but not any other screams like falling, doctor initial shocks, becoming exposed, ect.
  • We’re Gonna Live Forever*: Whenever you take a protection hit for another survivor, you gain a token up to 4 and you are healed by other survivors 25% faster for 60 seconds or until you are healed to the healthy state (This does not apply to self healing or recovery speeds). Additionally, your pallet stuns last .25 seconds longer for every token you have and the bloodpoint gain only applies to the Boldness category. 
  • Boil Over: Lessen the time to wiggle timer by 1 second.
  • Ace in the Hole: In addition to finding addons on items, if you search a chest and at least two survivors are dead, you have a 30% chance of getting a Dull Key or Skeleton Key without any addons from it (detract from the toolbox chances).
  • Detective’s Hunch: Remove Chest seeing, add seeing of lockers, active bear traps, and traps from Hag.
  • Open Handed*: Increase aura reading by 5/8/10 meters and any aura reading abilities and perks you have affect all survivors (The only exception to this being Object of Obsession). You also gain 25% more bloodpoints from altruism.
  • Streetwise: In addition to making items more efficient, it increases skill check occurrences by 10% while using an item.
  • Wake Up: Increase opening speed to 10/15/20%.
  • Slippery Meat*: Shorten time for wiggling out of a killer’s grasp and out of bear traps by 1/1.5/2 seconds.
  • Tenacity: Add that you don’t leave blood pools on the ground while in the dying state, you have an extra 10/20/30 seconds before bleeding out in the dying state, and noises made while in the dying state are reduced by 50%.
  • Vigil: In addition to the faster recovery while not sprinting, you recover from the exhausted effect at 33% normal recovery speed while sprinting.
  • Pharmacy: You start with 1 token, when you are in front of a chest, you can perform an “emergency search” by holding down the M2 button which will guarantee that you get an emergency med-kit from the chest. Once you have done this, the token is expended. All other bonuses still apply to normal chest searching.
  • No Mither: You only become broken once you have been injured for the first time and the broken icon does not appear for the killer on your portrait unless something else would give you the broken status effect (like becoming infected). Additionally, if facing against the Oni, you drop 50% less blood orbs while injured and recover 10% faster while in the dying state.
  • Hope: Change the speed bonus to 6/7/8% increase.
  • Technician: Whenever you are at a generator any noises made with the generator, with the exception of failed skill checks, are hushed by 8 meters. This includes passive noises of the generator and other survivors' progress on the generator. Additionally, the effect lingers on the generator for an additional 3 seconds after you stop working on it. The chance to prevent noise from failed skill checks is still the same.
  • Solidarity: Instead of simply healing at ½ rate, you get a token every time you heal someone up to 2 tokens. If you are injured when you receive your second token, you instantly heal to healthy and both tokens are expended. If you are healthy when you receive your second token, you keep your second token until you become injured. If you have been out of a chase for at least 5 seconds while injured, are not broken, and have 2 tokens, you become healthy.
  • Second Wind: Change it so that when you heal with another survivor, second wind activates. Additionally, it should activate when you heal an equivalent of one full health state.  "

Previous Article Post:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/139558/dear-dead-by-daylight-nurse-doctor-and-spirit-changes-excerpt#latest

Original Post Link:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/127810/dear-dead-by-daylight-change-suggestions-and-new-chapter-idea

Comments

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 925

    That's a HUGE Nerf to We're Gonna live Forever. Survivors need a double bloodpoint perk like BBQ+Chili.

  • LightpkmLightpkm Member Posts: 47
    edited March 26

    Boil over, slippery meat together would hurt the killers alot and vigil would be too strong.

  • NorMak3NorMak3 Member Posts: 88

    In killer perk nerf, BBQ gets a massive debuff as well, so don't worry about it.

  • NorMak3NorMak3 Member Posts: 88

    There are combos that hurt killers infinitely worse, but I do understand your concern. The only thing is that they are both virtually useless right now and wiggle timers are what they focus on. What if Boil over made killers 5% slower while carrying a survivor in addition to the increased effect of wiggling? I know it's essentially the same in effect, but if killers can make a perfect carry build like mad grit, iron grasp, agitation, ect. Then there should be a little bit of pushback.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 492

    Vigil too strong? you do realize that back in the day, exhaustion went down regardless if you were running or not? I do disagree with a lot of perks here(especially since both BBQ and WGLF are both meant to reward the player for being risky, altho WGLF should have an additional effect, like BBQ also does).

  • NorMak3NorMak3 Member Posts: 88

    I appreciate you defending my decision on Vigil, but I don't think BBQ awards you for playing risky, it rewards you for playing fair.

    I think the idea was that BBQ was added to stop people from camping by offering a ridiculous incentive AND a very good perk wrapped in one. I plan to (hypothetically) nerf BBQ in both power and bloodpoint gain, so this change was meant to balance that out as well as giving new power to it. Also, in a later article I list out plans to increase natural bloodpoint gain for survivors since it's a tad unbalanced in the bloodpoint department.

    Though, what other changes did you have issues with Predated? I would really like to know what else I can improve on.

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 925

    That makes it even worse. Double BP is a great perk and should mostly remain untouched.

  • NorMak3NorMak3 Member Posts: 88

    I realize bloodpoint gain can be a problem for survivors, but the solution should not be a perk, similar to how camping is a problem that should not be fixed with a perk. Bloodpoint gain itself should to be reworked and bloodpoint gain modifications should be minimal with a minor backlash at worst or, in the case of perks, accompanied by a decent ability since it takes up a perk slot.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 492

    Well, I have had my own views on reworking the game, which I've only published the killer side off so far, so I dont know if you'd agree with any of those views(they are mainly about game mechanic alterations and perks affected by that), but as for this list:

    BBQ is risky in the sense that to ensure it, you need to hook the survivors as soon as you can, even hunting down a survivor you might not have seen all game. To ensure the full 100% BP, you would need to switch targets oftenly. As a killer, that means hook order of 1,2,3,4. This means you need to spend at least 1 minute per survivor in chase. While a survivor is being chased, other survivors are doing gens, with 3 people on a single gen taking less than 1 minute. This pretty much means that if you want to ensure the 100% BP bonus, you would pretty much ensure 5 gens being done before you can even injure the 4th survivor. Sure, 75% extra BP is still nice, but bloodpoints are practically worthless for any main player anyway. I mainly use bloodpoints to gather more addons and items on a survivor as the only perks I still need are perks that are currently practically useless(quentin perks in general) or from new survivors. The only reason I would have to level up survivors further, is to get the prestige clothing, which, with all current cosmetics, isnt even that special anymore as I'd be losing all the perks I gained for a piece of clothing that doesnt help me out(except for blendette). Same applies to killers, with the current state of the game, its neccesary for people to gain more BP to be able to get the perks they need against survivors. The only issue I have with BBQ, is that in addition of the 100% extra BP, it gives an aura reading. Which is incredibly useful. WGLF doesnt have anything besides the 100% extra bloodpoints, which you can only get from protection hits OR from safe unhooks, both are quite limited if you want the 4 stack. Personally, I'd give players a slight speedboost at the start of a chase based on tokens, in addition of any exhaustion perk.

    As for my other issues, I am assuming these are all reworks rather than additions(in which case, a lot of the perks are too strong):

    Dejavu is simply a start up perk for starting players, a lot of bad killer perks also are simply a starting perk for new players. Making it super complex doesnt give people a reason to use it. Especially because its too hard to use as an early player, and as an experienced player, you can do all that was added without even needing the perk. Personally, I'd add the function on Dejavu of being able to place a beacon similar to the map addon, to show other players where you are or where something is.

    Sole Survivor is a bit of a though one, as it already recieved a buff lately(being range based instead of % based). Sole Survivor already fully counters All Seeing "Blood" from wraith as soon as someone dies, will counter perma T1 and T2 myers while being a T1 perk. Fully counters I'm All Ears after 2 deaths as a T3 perk and 3 deaths on a T2 perk. (here is basically a list of things SS can counter, not all of it tho, as it includes gen aura's etc too, but still, its a lot) On most maps, you can even be completely invisible with SS against BBQ. I might agree that people being slugged should work with this, to have another perk that counters slugging builds other than Unbreakable, but increasing the range of it will literally make it the strongest perk as you're removing any aura reading perks with only 1 person downed/killed. Adding the haste to it, might be a nice thing if it has 3 full stacks tho, other than that, it would essentially be another exhaustion perk.

    Up The Ante, actually is unique, in that the luck from Up The Ante also affects item loot, where Vigo's lips does not. And it stacks, meaning that if everyone runs it, you'd have a 36% luck increase, including chest loot and possible addons. I personally would like see it increased slightly, perhaps 3/4/5%, but giving it increased action speed for any amount of seconds, in combination with resilience and spinechill, means you can vault before the killer can even lunge for X amount of seconds. I might see it giving it a temporary luck boost after a gen is done, meaning you'd need to rush to a chest to actually use that luck.

    Calm Spirit is actually quite a decent perk. Because a lot of highly skilled killers can see a crow fly away and KNOW someone is there. Allowing them to inspect it if they dont see any scratch marks. So preventing it from taking off is actually quite good, better than a lot of survivors think(honestly, exhaustion perks excluded, I think Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Spine Chill and Unbreakable/Decisive Strike are amongst the strongest solo survivor perks right now). The only addition I'd see to it, is giving it a 25/50/75% chance of not screaming when you otherwise would. Which might even be too strong.

    Boil Over is fine, but base wiggling should affect killer movements a lot more. Perhaps adding a timer reduction with 1 second per tier instead of changing it to reducing seconds

    Ace In The Hole, like I said before, Up The Ante already gives people increased chest loot luck while people are alive. Making this into a perk that gives people increased chest loot luck while people are dead, is basically giving survivors free keys if they use Ace In The Hole with Up The Ante once 2 people died. I'd personally like the idea more that the killer basement would spawn a key if the killer closes the hatch rather than giving more perks to make finding keys even easier.

    Detective's Hunch, you're basically turning it into a buffed Small Game. Besides, Detective's Hunch is based on Map abilities. To add in traps and lockers means to buff maps aswell. I might agree with the lockers being added tho, as there is no real locker reading aura. I get why you wanted chests out, since Plunderer's Instinct is much better at that, but Plunderers Instinct is more about the chest loot, while Detective's Hunch is more about objective locations.

    Open Handed: I agree with the aura range increase, but its a bit unknown if it includes "negative" aura reading, like Sole Survivor. Personally, I rather have Open Handed increase the aura range based on map size. Like, 8 meters on small maps, 12 on medium and 16 meters on large maps. The dev's need to start accounting for mapsize rather than just whacking in some meters and expect it to be good enough. Sole Survivor currently is a bit too strong on small maps. Especially in combination with OoO.

    Streetwise, kinda agree, but it would need the same reduction that Spine Chill has. Because any great skill check benefits people a lot. They already nerfed toolboxes a lot, buffing them again by giving more skill checks with no reduction would pretty much counteract the nerfing they did.

    Wake Up I also agree with, as its supposed to counter Remember Me. Perhaps even 5/15/25%

    Tenacity might add a bit more movement speed too so that you can actually juke the killer with TBH. Any noise generated while on the floor already gives you away, let aside that you should be able to instantly crawl away. As for the addition you gave, I think that actually should go to No Mither instead. Tenacity is about floor movement speed while recovering and no picking up(although, I think it should do it once, like Unbreakable), Unbreakable is about recovery speed(which IMO should be 5% faster) and No Mither is about picking yourself up over and over again while giving reduced sounds, although, I do agree that it shouldnt give you a visible broken status at the start of the match, or at least introduce more strong perks that also start with a broken status, but give a ton of wiggling boost if they are picked up right after they are downed, so that killers have no clue if they can pick themselves up or free themselves easily, or both. Leaving killers literally with a conundrum if they should pick the survivor up or leave them be for a while.

    Pharmacy: funny, actually, because you've literally described how the perk works, except you added a token to it, which implies that you could use it not to get an emergency medkit. Which might have some form of playstyle I guess, but the whole downside is supposed to be that you get a specific item out of it. I get that this gives it better synergy with Plunderers Instinct, but you can still 99% every chest in the map and have someone else run Plunderers to do the final 1%. I dont get why you would add a token to it, as pharmacy is not really meant to be a solo play perk in the first place.

    Hope: Originally, Hope was meant to counter NOED. So personally I rather see the time being indefinite untill the EGC starts.

    The only addition I can see with Technician, is that it would include other noises and a lingering effect. Which would be nice.

    Solidarity is actually quite a nice perk, using Tokens instead is a bit odd. Because what counts as healing someone up? Healing someone after they've already been healed 99% by someone else? Because that would be mean to the person who healed them up 99%. Solidarity is meant to be ran with other perks, like We'll Make It, to reduce the time to being healed as much as possible. Adding Tokens would require so much more than a simple conversion. I might want it buffed to 2/3rds rather than 1/2, because its meant to counter sloppy butcher, and right now, its not doing a great job at that. I do understand that healing someone else while healthy makes this perk a bit useless, but perhaps it should give a healing boost to others while you are fully healthy. Which would mean either a boost while healthy, or a 2/3rds ratio while injured, not both, obviously.

    Second Wind already does what you're describing. It activates once you heal the equivalent of one healthstate, regardless if you heal another survivor or not. Personally, I would add in personal recovery rate in this. Meaning that if you use unbreakable and pick yourself up, Second Wind could activate.


    At least, that includes all the buffs/changes to the current meta. Considering Devs want to change things up in giving solo survivors the same info as a full SWF team can do, including information that OoO will give, there will be a lot of meta changes too. I still need to make my post about what I would like to see in a new meta survivor side, but I guess I'll see you around when I do too.

  • NorMak3NorMak3 Member Posts: 88

    Predated,

    Thank you for the responses, I'm glad you brought some of these points up. I did, however, notice some problems with some of your arguments that I would like to address.

    BBQ and WGLF: Playing a good killer means being willing to chase for a little bit in order to get the down. You can't patrol generators and expect to win the game, or at the very least expect the game to end within the next half hour. As for getting better perks against survivors, one my goals with the rest of Dear Dead By Daylight is to make killers less of a joke and less reliant on addons and perks, even though they should still be somewhat important. The tokens are harder to get for We're Gonna Live Forever, but that doesn't really make it worth that 100% BP, at least not more than BBQ. Additionally, there are several other bloodpoint related perks that have a lot less power and a lot less bloodpoints, so I feel it would make sense to put both of these perks on level with perks like Beast of Prey, Distressing, or No One Left Behind.

    Deja vu: I'm not even sure new survivors use it for how much of a meme it is. As for the rest, perhaps simplifying the process of using it could be better, but my goal with these changes was to make all perks at least slightly viable in higher ranks.

    Sole Survivor: While it does successfully counter all of those, most of those are situational and so is the perk. Additionally, it nearly encourages non altruistic gameplay which, if recent chapters have shown, is not what the devs want, nor should they. I wouldn't want to die on the first hook every game. If it were more available before your allies get killed, it would work a lot more often and be a lot less situational.

    Up The Ante: I have no idea where you're getting those numbers. If all the survivors brought in Vigo's Salty Lips and brought in Up the Ante, which is a pretty big if, the total would be 24%. Even then, luck is perhaps one of the most underused and least important statistics in the game. I do work to make luck more important in the main document, but not enough to make luck that important. Furthermore, spine chill doesn't apply to those kinds of action speeds. Sure that would be 24% vaulting speed, but that's only a little under a quarter and you have to be injured and it only lasts for 35 seconds. It could be a little strong, but not that bad. Also a luck boost wouldn't help much either.

    Calm Spirit: I know that not startling crows is important at higher levels, but the perk also promises to stifle screams: "Your calm spirit can overcome the urge to scream." I just want it to fulfill its end of the bargain most of the time. Hook screams just help other survivors know where you are, so it becomes more of a detriment.

    Boil Over: I have no idea what you mean with the timer reduction, but a very minor boost to the movement hinderance wouldn't be bad. I have also been informed that the 1 second could be too much with other perks. Perhaps that little boost is all it needs after all, so thanks.

    Ace In The Hole: Ace in the Hole doesn't give more luck with items, it just offers the possibility of addons with your loot. In fact the luck stat doesn't even apply to chests. Also, most killers camp hatch anyway instead of closing it. Even if it did, you'd have to be very lucky and very prepared in order for things to work just right. I was actually in a game that was similar: one survivor with a key died leaving it behind, killer had NOED, last one alive, killer closed hatch and started patrolling the doors, managed to get the key and open the hatch with maybe 3 seconds to spare. It was very intense and would be too situational. Also, as someone who runs plunderer's instinct a lot, you're usually more likely to find a map or very food medkit over a key anyhow.

    Detective's Hunch: Maps are pretty underpowered as is. Also technically yes, it would work like small game, but it would only work if you had a map or everytime the generator activates. It'd be stronger, but a little more situational, so I think it would balance out.

    Open Handed: Maps are pretty underused as is and I'm not sure a minor map buff would help bring open handed up enough to be usable. Additionally, I should specify that it does not apply to Sole Survivor either, thank you.

    Streetwise: Spine chill offers a secondary purpose of knowing if the killer is coming in your direction which is really strong as is. It also only decreases the success zone, not the great skill zone. At least as far as I am aware.

    Wake Up: 5/15/25% maybe a little too much, but I appreciate the enthusiasm.

    Tenacity, Unbreakable, and No Mither: I think that it would be best to keep these all distinct and, thus, it may be best for me to list what I personally think all of their purposes are. Tenacity is for stealth/getting away if you are slugged, Unbreakable is for recovering faster and getting a second chance, and No Mither is like a more dangeroud version of unbreakable, giving you the potential for more chances, but for the cost of having less chances in other places. I think that Unbreakable is fine as it is, Tenacity needs just a minor buff to hold up the stealth and escape element, and No Mither needs a different kind of disguise. While more permanent broken perks would help disguise it, they are extremely niche. If it were to allow you to escape quicker, it would only encourage slugging more, or, if nothing else, would need a cooldown.

    Pharmacy: Emergency Health Kits aren't always what you want and you may want it at a later time, so giving the choice would probably better realize its potential.

    Hope: End game is usually over by the time Hope runs out. At the very least the doors are usually open, so it already fills the goal timewise just fine.

    Technician: Thank You.

    Solidarity: You're quite right, I should have specified the equivalent of 1 health state per token. I think giving a buff to healing while healthy would be redundant and the 2/3rds would be too powerful if they didn't have sloppy butcher. Even then it's a conversion of percentage not time, so it would heal you at the same rate.

    Second Wind: It says it works like that, but it's more complicated. You need to heal 1 survivor from unhealed injured to healthy without anyone helping. The chances of that happening are ridiculously low. There's usually been progress or another survivor, even if you use something like we'll make it.

    I do appreciate you looking into this and making sure that I've got everything in order. Your feedback was really helpful and I hope to hear from you in the future Predated.

    NorMak

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