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Really disappointed that Sloppy Butcher doesn't work with Feral Frenzy.

Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

You would think a killer that can't down a survivor with their power could at least receive the benefit of Sloppy Butcher. But I guess not.

*sad Legion noises*

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Comments

  • ShocktoberShocktober Member Posts: 678

    Pretty sure they did this because when it applied on hit, legion could get to 8 stack STBFL stacks within like a minute of the game starting, as well as injuring 3-4 people with sloppy while doing it. At that point he never had to use his power again because 8 stack STBFL was much better than using his power.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488
  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 2,144

    They want all perks to be consistent. Before it was hard to tell if perks like STBFL or Sloppy Butcher would work on every killers ability.

  • ShocktoberShocktober Member Posts: 678

    I'm not sure they distinguish between the different on-hit effects. If legion could apply sloppy on-hit with frenzy why can't demo with his shred, pig with lunge, etc etc?

    Plus I still think it would be pretty dumb to be applying like 60+ seconds worth of damage every feral frenzy if the survivors were too close together. There are plenty of maps that are small enough that splitting up isn't a realistic option for solo Q teams. On maps like the game people can be in the next room to you and you would have no idea.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

    I know they want things to be consistent. Just seems like a foolish design choice if you ask me.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

    But here's the thing. Legion can't down anyone with his/her power. So it seems fair to me that Legion be able to keep survivors injured more effectively.

    Even on smaller maps, you can stay spread out to minimize the feral frenzy damage.

  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 2,144

    I get what you mean and at the time the change just nerfed legion even more but it was the right choice. I remember asking constantly "does sloppy and stbfl work with ambush and hatchets". If I'm correct stuff like that didn't work with ambush.

  • SydraenSydraen Member Posts: 101

    Legion literally moves faster than the survivors, makes it hard to see as a survivor when in need of mend, increasing the chances of error in finding a safe spot to run away from a Legion behind them or hiding, and they basically get free vision on survivors in a proximity area.

    Mending already takes time out and a Good Legion will be able to keep a mend up on survivors constantly, especially with map changes. You want to add to that additional time so that what, the survivor bleeds out from the Mend timer because you cant land an M1? Theres already plenty of slowdown Legion Builds with Thanatophobia etc.

    I really dont understand the complaint when if you actually knew how to use Legion you'd know it wasnt a neccessary addition, plus if you did want to use sloppy butcher, just M1 like a Pig would, or a Myers, or literally any other killer who has movement abilities as their secondary.

  • ShocktoberShocktober Member Posts: 678

    How are you supposed to stay spread out if you don't know where anyone on your team is? And don't say run bond, because telling people to run 1 specific perk to counter a specific situation isn't a good argument. There's too many of those niche situations for that to convince me. "Just run BT for camping" "Just run DS for tunneling" "Just run sprintburst for deadzones" "Just run iron will for spirit" "Just run bond for legion" "Just run spine chill for stealth killers" etc etc.

    I see plenty of red rank legions that combo the completely free feral frenzy hit with another loop-stopper like bamboozle or spirit fury + enduring. So now your free first hit comes with an easy second hit. That's where legion is annoying and strong, but I feel like too many people are focused on adding an extra 3 seconds to generators with thanatophobia to have figured that out yet.

  • brokedownpalacebrokedownpalace Member Posts: 5,092

    Yeah that would be a very fun gameplay experience for survivors. More staring at progress bars. Sign me up!

    Let's give the exit gates, opening chests, throwing down pallets and unhooking survivors skill checks, too!

  • KakateveKakateve Member Posts: 287

    He was still trash. Not enough to justify a nerf like that. Also you lost them pretty easily like any other killer but at least it gave you a reason to smack deep wounded survivors.

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 2,986

    They did it because of consistency while yes on the stream talking about it they did mention that it probably wasn't the best decision for Legion specifically but it was in the effort to make everything more consistent.

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 3,231

    Didn't it previously work with all the on-hit perks, minus the ones that use Exposed?

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 2,986

    The removal of synergies always going to create problems while yes mending can take a time out of the survivors activities there has also been several pieces of evidence to show that survivors usually don't care about deep wounds.

    Coming from someone who uses Legion as a secondary main and someone who is faced against legions usually people will trust what could be objective after getting hit until the last couple of seconds of deep wounds and then start mending this way they maximise the most they can do from frenzy.


    Especially considering that without Franks mixtape ( which is an awful add-on and nobody runs it) Legion cannot not down you and running causes your timer it's very easy for you to just simply do that and if the Legion comes back too close you could just run and still keep the timer up.

    As for going up against Legion when they use feral frenzy you are a potato survivor if you ever try to find a hiding spot when you're facing that.

    Literally the best counter you have is just run they will either not be able to catch you or it will give you enough distance that you could properly juke

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

    Those perks work on Deathslinger though.

    I just think changing Sloppy Butcher to work with FF would be a nice buff for Legion.

  • GeordieKillerGeordieKiller Member Posts: 173

    that because deathslinger does a basic attack so it would appy SB if the chain breaks without him doing a basic attack then no SB

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

    Depends on the map. If the map is open, then I keep my eyes peeled for Legion. If I see the Legion going after someone else then I start moving away from my teammate being chased.

    If the map is indoors, then that's a bit more complicated. I usually run Spine Chill, so I know if the killer is looking at me or someone else. Intuition is important here.

    Point is, Legion can't down anyone with their power. So it seems fair to me that Legion be a killer who can keep survivors injured. Legion still has to chase everyone and walk across the map.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,488

    I'm not trying to argue the logic here about what is considered a basic attack or not. I'm just saying I think Legion's feral frenzy should receive the benefit of Sloppy Butcher.

  • GeordieKillerGeordieKiller Member Posts: 173

    oh i totally agree with you there it would be nice but unlikely to be fair legion needs more or less a rework :/ or some serious buff like being able to see blood when in frenzy or not losing 50% of your power if you m1 hit a survivor or reduce the deep wound time from 30 to 15 seconds to make it actually drangerous as if im correct BT has a 15 second time to heal from DW that is inflicted on you

  • GhosteGhoste Member Posts: 606

    The Deep Wound effect is basically a pseudo Sloppy Butcher. Survivors already have to spend extra time to heal vs. Legion. Stacking mending with Sloppy is obnoxious and unfun, and that is why the devs removed Legion's synergy with the perk.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 329

    Just playing devil advocate, doesn't Myer have special attack that functions like a basic attack that downs people in 1 hit on EV3 with fancy new lunge and fancy music. I think there should be a grey zone for transformation abilities applying hit-on.

    Just a little trick, a lot of legions memorize spawn points of survivors because they generally spawn together and Legion wants to get a good start on his power every time he loads into a map. This is also really good for Oni and Billy so they can get a head start. If your grouped against Legion and he finds everyone, one of the strategies you can do is purposely camp a weak pallet and wait for him to hit you, as soon as he hits you, you can drop the pallet and protect everyone else health state. Honestly though, If the survivor team is good, even if all 4 get hit by legion power, there isn't real consequence to staying together against Legion. On most maps, If they're good at survivor, they'll loop the killer just as well as injured as they would when healthy.Its just that red ranks sometimes has a lot of potato survivors/teammates.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 6,652

    I think transformation abilities shouldn't count as basic because they're too easy to apply.

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 2,986

    They removed it because of consistency with powers vs basic attacks it had nothing to do with synergy.

    Third seal

    Save The Best For Last

    Remember me

    Franklin's demise

    All of these also had synergy it would be incredibly dumb from a balance position for you just to remove all of that because of one interaction with sloppy Butcher instead of just changing sloppy butcher itself.

    As I've said previously in the Stream that they were talking about the changes they even said but they realise Legion was going to take a definite hit in the synergy but they really wanted to make sure everything was consistent.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 3,617

    We may want to consider a sloppy tweak then..that's a hard limit for such a niche perk....

  • USELESSUSELESS Member Posts: 1,151

    another thing that doesnt work with feral frenzy, remember me. "even more sad legion noises"

  • NeaMainNON_TOXIC3NeaMainNON_TOXIC3 Member Posts: 211

    As a Legion main, I don't really want Sloppy to work with FF. That removes the purpose of the mangled and broken add-ons. And if they did go together, every toxic person would play Legion. They'd use them just to piss people off. If enough people complain about it, they'd just reverse Legion back to their old self.

  • csandman1977csandman1977 Member Posts: 1,434

    I would argue that those add-ons were created specifically BECAUSE of the change to FF synergy with some perks.

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