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Should Mori's Forfeit Ranking?

I mean for BOTH SIDES, so don't bite my head off just yet and read first. All of it.

So, there's a lot of talk about Mori's and how they just suck. And I agree! Unless it's the Cypress Mori, getting murdered out of nowhere sucks. I have a proposal for the current set of Mori offerings that should help stop the hate for them and even slow down their usage to make both sides happy.

You bring a Mori, ranks are now unaffected. Not just yours, but all players involved.

Survivors cannot be ranked down because you tunnelled with an Ebony, you cannot rank up because you don't actually play most of the game any more. Even for an Ivory, that one survivor probably just got unlucky and is now dead out of nowhere because of a single offering.

This would also be a good method for learning new killers too, since you now are less concerned about your overall performance and how it will affect rank without having to de-pip, wait for the rank resets to lower your rank or have to go into custom games to practice. Just slap on a 4000 BP Cypress Mori and not care that you might get smashed!

Are there problems with this? Probably. I can see people easily trolling or slapping one on to deal with those 4 toolboxes you just saw load in, or in response to seeing keys. It might become a signal that a killer wants to have a farming game which I know that a lot of people don't exactly like, or even an excuse to be absolutely toxic and camp or tunnel everyone with the excuse that ranks don't matter any more.

I can also understand one of the developers coming here and telling me that it would be a coding nightmare, and I can get that.

I think that it's still an idea that we can all discuss in a civilised manner. Now don't turn this into an Us vs. Them thread, since this is an issue for both sides and I won't hesitate to get the mods to shut this down. I've had threads before where it's just devolved into name-calling and I will NOT have that happen again.


  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I'm assuming you mean Devour Hope, and no. Kill effects will not count, as there are very specific requirements for them. Devour Hope requires Survivors to ignore a token and feed the Killer it's power. I know this as I've been on both sides of it quite a bit. There would also be issues around people who use it to get Exposed and that's it, so making it that rank is unaffected by reaching 5 tokens would both promote camping with the perk to avoid tokens.

    There is also the issue of if ranking will be denied OUTRIGHT by having the perk, or arbitrarily reaching 5 Tokens with Devour Hope. Same can be said for Rancor, which has a very specific kill requirement and doesn't necessarily activate that requirement.

    So overall, no. This is only for Mori offerings.

  • Terra92Terra92 Member Posts: 583

    I think that sounds like a nice idea. It definitely sucks to depip because you didn't get enough points in the 33% of the match that you were able to play in. It never feels nice to depip when you had very little in the way of controlling that outcome.

    I think Moris should only work on death hook, I think that would be the best case scenario(hell make Cypress base kit so Killers can just end the last Survivor instead of hooking them), but this also sounds like a fantastic idea.

  • TWiXTTWiXT Member Posts: 1,693
    edited May 2020

    Currently, Ebony Mori's are my favorite way to de-rank as killer. Using them robs the killer of Chaser, Devout, and Malicious scoring points, so If you use a mori on every survivor after their first hook, you are bound to get the "Entity Displeased" screen and lose a Pip (especially if you also used 1-shot killers like Billy, Oni, GF, Shape, or Iri head Huntress). The only reason I do this is because, while others aren't having this problem, whenever I reach the red ranks, I rarely encounter survivor teams that aren't also Red rank, and I play this game for casual fun instead of pure frustration. Mind you, not all red rank teams feel like they belong there, but more often than not they are ridiculously sweaty and not very fun to face. True it's not very nice to do to the survivors as they will likely de-pip as well, but the chances of you going up against the same team multiple times are slim, so it'll mostly be a mild annoyance for them if they were hoping to pip.

    If you take that away, then killers wouldn't be able to de-rank with them and would instead resort to lame tactics like hiding in a corner all game without playing, or playing terrible on purpose while goofing around. At least with the Mori's the game can be over quickly, and more intense.

    On the swing side you have keys for survivors, but unlike mori's, keys reward survivors for using them in both BP and ranking, so unfortunately survivors have no fun options for purposely de-ranking.

  • BigBrainMegMainBigBrainMegMain Member Posts: 3,826

    I really like this.

    What about Ranking Positively, for survivors? Sacrificing Rank, for a Mori shouldn't affect survivors IF they do well.

    I'm digging this idea though.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Keys should do the same, since they are essentially the same thing for survivors. But I like the idea and would want it added.

    The fact that de-ranking is a plus in this game shows how messed up the mechanics are on a base level, never mind what ranking does when thrown in the mix.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    Sure, that sounds like a normal thing for video games to have. If you use something that some people consider too powerful, nobody ranks up or down and the (previously) ranked match becomes pointless.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I think pausing rank instead of giving free ranks is the best solution. That way survivors do not have to stress about being an absolute tryhard that round and can still mess around.

    If you want, all items and addons can also be kept for another round, if you really want to reward survivors for some reason...

  • GhostwithafaceGhostwithaface Member Posts: 594

    Well if this idea gets put in, going with the idea for now for the shake of debate it is put in and this becomes the new system for moris. Well not a single other offering would do this. Using a game offering or other map offering to get a map that favors the killer you play or allows you to make great use of balance landing, rank is not effected at all. So it might lead to some confusion, if there is no warning to it. So you would need to add a warning, if you use this offering you won't be able to rank up but you will still earn blood points at the end of the match. That way it would avoid any confuse with basically every other offering that does not have the same effect.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    Personally, this sounds good to me but this is a bit of a slippery slope with both sides, since it brings up the topic of what takes skill to do and whether X should make it harder to rank. At least I've seen posts on the forums saying stuff like that.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I've purposefully left out positive ranking, because then there would be a lot of contention from EITHER side with being able to rank up very quickly, and with the amount of farming games that would appear from this, I don't think it'd be fair to allow it and boost people's ranking further than it should be.

    There would also 100% be a bullet point in the description warning killers about a lack of ranking.

  • GhostwithafaceGhostwithaface Member Posts: 594

    Yeah that would be a fair and good way of handling it. That way, they know what they are getting into when using the offering.

  • BigBrainMegMainBigBrainMegMain Member Posts: 3,826

    In any case, this sounds great.

    I Love the idea, but I don't want to bring anymore hostility to the killer because 4 survivors will lose out pipping.

    I Love the idea though, but you know, I wouldn't want anymore toxicity toward killers.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    That's why I suggested this. Mori's are in a way, inherently toxic. This will either lower the toxicity of bringing a mori, or shifting it to these games that don't affect ranking. It will also make them infinetly less frustrating to go against without having to just remove or nerf them into oblivion.

  • snozersnozer Member Posts: 776

    Only if keys forfeit rank for every survivor in the lobby (even if they don't have a key)

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    Moris have cool animations that survivors and killers need to appreciate more. They're not "inherently toxic" in any conceivable way.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    ........... but why though? And why only survivors?

    Survivors have to do a large share of their objective, or have the niche situation of the killer having closed the hatch first.

    This comment is also extremely off-topic, and part of the Us vs Them debate that this thread is not a part of. Keys are also linked to specific challenges. Drain 3 Keys is very different to Kill 4 Survivors by any means.

    There is also the issue of the Broken Key and the effects of add-ons being used while not being able to open the hatch.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Tunnelling of hook with an Ebony is though, which is the most common use of a Mori. I appreciate them through use of Devour Hope and Rancor, as you actually have to put in effort to pull them off. It's not "Oh, hey. I've already hooked you."

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    I don't consider that toxic either, I consider it "common ######### sense". It's just pressing the advantage.

    DH and Rancor rarely see use; DH in particular because it can be destroyed in 14 seconds, IIRC. Moris, to me, are a treat, like finding a box of chocolates you thought was empty but realizing there's one left.

  • snozersnozer Member Posts: 776

    Oh so... get rid of the killers "free win" but keep the survivors free win.. i see.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    See what? You gave me no reason for a point unrelated to the topic at hand and now attempt to frame me as someone who's survivor sided.

    If we really want to go there, then you have perks to deal with it. Or just tunnel or camp those with a key. They are "legitimate tactics" after all.

    I asked you why and you haven't given me a reason. Make a point or leave. Hell, make your own thread explaining everything and tag me.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I said "in a way" because there are some people who see them as toxic, and to a degree I do. This is just a way to end all of the arguments about their use that is fair for everyone.

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