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It's time for Mori's and Keys to be addressed.

NebulaNebula Member Posts: 452

Both of these items are extremely outdated and take the fun away from the other side when used. There's nothing enjoyable about getting tunneled off hook and taken out of the game right off the bat, or when you're playing killer and all the sudden the game just ends because they had a key. I know that mori's are big selling points for their new killers but I would not mind at all if they just deleted those and keys from the game.

Comments

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,929

    both are tied to vanilla game achievements, they might get reworked at best, but the effects will always be the same.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    I enjoy the cool animations and the added tension that comes with knowing my next chase could be my last. The only issue I have with keys is that they can be found in chests.

    Bottom line, there are people who genuinely enjoy these things, so don't project your lack of enjoyment onto everyone.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285

    This is not a good reason to not change things. Achievements can be changed.

  • DeshDesh Member Posts: 1,118

    So Mori's I can slightly understand the issue with. You'll get Killers who tunnel you into oblivion and kill you quickly. I think people have more problems with the Pink Mori than the Green Mori. Mind you, I only ever use a Mori when a ritual (or challenge) demands me to kill them by my hand.

    Keys however, I still to this day don't understand what the problem is. You don't suddenly win the game when you walk in with a key. You still have to play and do a certain amount of Gens before you can escape. And that amount varies on how many are alive. If you want to argue that Moris should similar to how Keys work where a Killer needs to do x for a period of y before they can Mori someone, then sure, depends on how you approach it. But I don't see the problem with Keys and people don't like Moris when a Killer goes full "toxic".

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,929

    no they can't. They didn't change the 3 blink grab with nurse (despite needing now an ultra rare add-on, making it almost impossible after nurse nerf), or the left behind achievement (despite introducing the egc, which basically makes said achievement impossible).

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285
  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,929

    thanks for completely ignoring the proves I've brought. Anyways they stated that they can't do it, probably not even willing to do it.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285
    edited June 2020

    The "proof" you gave doesn't mean anything. Those achievements are still possible to get, so why would they change it? If they change something that makes the achievement impossible, they can change the achievement.


    Also while we are at it. Who actually cares about achievements? They shouldn't not change something that would be healthy for the game simply because there is an achievement which very few people actually care about or engage with. Just look at steam achievements and even some of the most basic ones like "get to level 10" have less than 40% completion rate.

  • NebulaNebula Member Posts: 452

    My problem with keys is that they just feel cheap. There's games as killer where I feel I'm doing really well and on the verge of a 4k and all the sudden the last two survivors escape with 1 gen left and the games over.

  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,929

    they won''t change achievements, keys and mori will stay, accept it, or keep living in this fantasy where one of the thousands "remove keys/mori thread" that get open every day can actually change the game, while I literally told you why it won't happen.

  • RizeAkiRizeAki Member Posts: 1,209

    Best thing is if not just make deadhook Mori base kit make the offerings themself be deadhook but also add the yellow effect on all of them. Then keys be one person only and make purple keys unable to reopen a hatch already opened by a key but maybe allow iri key reopen closed hatches if not remove both iri versions of key and Mori. By closed hatch I mean if a person uses the key it auto closes and can or can not start egc. So if killer closes hatch it can still be reopened.

  • toxcitynacltoxcitynacl Member Posts: 464

    If you don't want to have a Mori you can simply leave the game before it loads as 99% of the time it will be a Mori and not that shroud of separation. Often the mori is the Cypress one and more times than not the killer doesn't even get to use it. I rarely see keys but do a 3-man key escape right in front of some killer's face...priceless.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285
    edited June 2020

    The way you fix moris and keys is to do the following:


    Keys:

    • Keys that can open the hatch can no longer be found in the trial and must be brought in, this means a killer can see a key before the game starts and react to it. It also eliminates that cheap RNG where you are going to win the game as killer and then survivors just RNG a key out of thin air and get out.
    • Keys now only allow 1 survivor to escape when using the hatch, after one survivor goes through the hatch immediately closes and is put on cooldown for 60 seconds, preventing anyone from using a key to open the hatch and also preventing the hatch from automatically opening when there is 1 survivor left.
    • Keys are now removed from the trial when someone holding it is sacrificed/killed, this gives killers a way to completely remove the key from the game if they see one, allowing them to develop a strategy around removing it. It could also lead survivors to sharing the key more often when they are on death hook for example.

    Moris:

    • Yellow mori is removed from the game and is now base kit, this mori realistically doesn't come into play ever and would be a fun way for a match to end if you can manage it, i don't see too many scenarios this would be a huge buff outside of like a DS near the exit gate, but even that is a stretch as it happens so rarely.
    • Green mori still allows you to kill 1 survivor, Ebony mori allows you to kill 2 survivors
    • Green/Ebony Mori is now tied to a charge/token system, killers now gain a token every time a survivor is hooked and killers LOSE a token every time a generator is completed. Once 3 tokens have been accumulated (same required for a sacrifice) the killer is able to mori someone which then consumes all of the tokens, This means that killers can't camp/tunnel someone down immediately with no counter play and requires them to earn the tokens. It also gives survivors a means to slow down or even prevent a mori from occurring.
  • Mikey4HireMikey4Hire Member Posts: 270

    Didn't the devs say that it's not on their radar?

  • ActulCasulActulCasul Member Posts: 178

    Leave them as is. It's funny to have game altering items that encourage toxic behavior and then moderate the toxic community from a pretentious moral high ground. That never sent mixed messages to anyone, ever.

  • JustCatsJustCats Member Posts: 298
    edited June 2020

    Still have to catch the survivors and hook them, then down them again to Mori. Arguably harder to do than to just get a couple gens popped.

    I don't have a problem with either, personally, but saying they're not pretty much the exact equivalent of each other is disingenuous.

    Personally I think a killer should be able to Mori whenever he has someone on second hook - no item required - at the risk of displeasing the entity and popping a random uncompleted and currently unoccupied gen automatically. The animations are fun and it makes the killers feel like... killers... in a game where most often they feel like middle managers trying to keep survivors on task. Vice versa I think the hatch should be available for survivors from the beginning to open, no key required, but have a limitation that only one survivor can escape during the course of the game.

    No points gained for sacrificing or escaping taking either route. Points gained for being killed by the killer's hand (caused blind rage) and points gained for being a killer and having a survivor use the hatch (scared em out).

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,203

    Moris would be fixed overnight if they only worked on survivors who are dead on next hook.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    Moris would be fixed made useless overnight if they only worked on survivors who are dead on next hook.

    FTFY.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285
    edited June 2020

    This would make moris completely useless. Most Mori animations take longer than picking up a survivor and putting them on a hook. On top of that, you already miss out of perks like BBQ/Pop/Thrilling etc when using the mori. These combined make it so using a mori would be a net negative for the killer.


    While you are at it, just make the keys automatically end the game and give survivors 0 bloodpoints and depip, and give the killer 32k bloodpoints and a doublepip.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285

    Keys allow survivors to skip part of their objective, and moris allow killers to skip part of theirs. They are both pretty equal IMO.

  • SpaceCoconutSpaceCoconut Member Posts: 1,962

    The Executioner has a unique mori tied to his power.

    I imagine that this was an experiment to see how well it went over with the community. Since it seems successful and well received, I'm willing to bet that we're going to see similar mories introduced to existing killers with unique prerequisites and/or the (3rd hook & affected by power) prerequisites would be applied to mori offerings.

    There's precedent for the devs removing offerings that suit the changes the game has undergone, so I forsee offerings being removed, the mori conditions changing and becoming part of the killer's kit.

    But I guess we'll see.

  • Speshul_KittenSpeshul_Kitten Member Posts: 1,861

    They’re both crutches that need reworking.

    Mori’s, not all but often, are used for toxic/hate reasons in higher ranks and rarely-exclusively as a way to “slow the game down” .

    In my experience, keys are often used for challenges in Tome’s, using an Escape Cake/BPS (to maximize points), or for people who keep dying every game as a survivor.

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