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BHVR's problem with what they choose to balance

I'm not going to tell you that the billy nerf, bubba buff, and perk changes were awful. BUT, I do think this shows that BHVR only work on what they want to and not what needs to be changed. I'll split this up into sections..

Section 1: The Billy Nerf

After having played the new Billy a few times, I can safely say that the overheat mechanic is not really that big of a nerf. It never really affects you unless you miss like 8 saws or something. In fact, you can still easily 4 man slug with IF without overheating. This shows that the overheat feature was completely unnecessary as it does basically nothing anyway, and it seems like a huge waste of time. I'm not even gonna go into the add-ons here.

Section 2: The Bubba Buff

I think the buff to Bubba was actually OK, so not as much to say here. However, the main problem they said they wanted to fix was the opportunity for Bubba to facecamp. Again, after playing Bubba I can say that it is still very much possible to facecamp with him as you can rev your chainsaw in time to kill the unhooked an unhooker.

Section 3: The Perk Changes

I think the changes to these perks were all OK, aside from knock-out which i think actually got nerfed. The real problem I have here is that all these perks they buffed, aside from tinkerer, didn't really need a buff. Lightborn, for instance, basically got nothing as the perks core function remains the same and the aura reading thing is useless. Franklins was a perk which I didn't think was a high priority for a buff but it's alright, I guess.

Final statement:

I think BHVR really needs to look at things that actually need buffs/nerfs instead of developing an overheat mechanic which does basically nothing in most situations and buffing/nerfing perks which didn't really need it. There are so many perks that could easily have their numbers tweaked which would become more viable, but for some reason BHVR never does it. I don't know why it takes them so long to change things which could easily be changed with practiacally no effort.


  • Ramxenoc445Ramxenoc445 Member Posts: 1,329

    I think billy should suffer more with the overheat mechanic. I do like that he can't spam it but at the same time based on what people are saying he can still spam it to go across the map and down people as he has been he just can't spam it constantly in a chase with someone. All the killers seem to have a downside or cooldown to their power and its unfair to me that he still basically has none. Legion gets a bigger cooldown but their power is just a tool to injure people and not down them instantly. The leatherface stuff seems fine minus how far his power goes now. Maybe it was an addon but i don't think he should be going the distance he is going with his chainsaw it feels difficult enough to try and dodge if you don't have a window it shouldnt be taking him from shack all the way to a different tile set outside across from it. Personally though i feel like they ignore the harder to tackle problems till they feel like it or a ton of the community complains about it like the Spirit situation.

  • slim0bslim0b Member Posts: 551

    Why in god's name do people judge how good a killer is by comparing his/her mechanics to other killers?

    A killer is strong if he performs well in the red ranks, not if he has a silly cooldown or not. Base-kit billy was the most balanced thing to exist and all he needed was to remove some of his bullshlt addons/prevent their stacking. And guess what, they did both.

  • DoomsakiDoomsaki Member Posts: 144
    edited July 2020

    When it comes to perks, I'm baffled at why the devs feel the need to put so many restrictions on indirect utility perks.

    Perks that directly impede generator progress or aid in chases or assist in scouting are often the goto perks virtually all builds. But with an indirect perk like knockout, they removed its usefulness from the killers who'd benefit from slugging the most (i.e. those who can 1 hit down).

    Instead they should be looking at making utility perks very versatile and perks with more direct effects lean towards situational advantages and less cookie cutter goodness if we want to see more variety in-game.

  • Ramxenoc445Ramxenoc445 Member Posts: 1,329

    Because a killer that can insta down someone off of one none cooldown hit should have some drawback aside from just missing the hit. He needed what he got and in my opinion he needed some harsher pushes to the overheat but enough people disliked it and so they listened and changed it. Legion can't down anyone with frenzy period but they get a long cool down on a terrible power that injures people if you hit and gets you some distance across the map. Its nothing in comparison to what billy does yet he can do it and slug and be considered balanced but legion gets a [BAD WORD] power. Which turned out to be a worse reversed version of what the spirit has but her power makes sense. They've had to "rework" parts of legion's kit multiple times which just screams how bad it is. They made a perk that brought back the exact bs part of their kit that got them nerfed/reworked.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    "In fact, you can still easily 4 man slug with IF without overheating. This shows that the overheat feature was completely unnecessary as it does basically nothing anyway, and it seems like a huge waste of time. I'm not even gonna go into the add-ons here."

    Exactly, it was utterly pointless and a complete waste of time. So either the devs were wrong or their stats were right and they're leaving a killer unbalanced because they're afraid of the community. Either way it's sad and just makes me doubtful for the future of balance in this game.

  • DabihwowDabihwow Member Posts: 3,410

    The only issue I have with billy's rework is how constrictive and limiting it can be, I suck at Billy because its impossible for me to land a hit So I use his chainsaw mostly to travel, his addons correspond with his personal perks which is again constrictive and limiting, this is a very big mistake I've seen happen to many video gaming companies like Blizzard, Activision, and Ea. They messed up so bad at times its ridiculous, mostly they amde their own decisions and are out of touch with the community, BHVR is starting to follow that path. So be very careful how you make future updates, because if you do something that affects the game negatively, you destroy a possible future.

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 1,273

    Im sorry you're so sad that a balanced killer stayed balanced.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    except they admitted he was overperforming lol

    but of course, you're a killer main. 4k is the balance.

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 1,273

    But actually I'm not, I play 50/50 consistently. Stop trying to make this a killer vs survivor thing. I've called for many killer nerfs before.

  • ZaitsevZaitsev Member Posts: 1,285

    BHVR doesnt like to balance what needs balancing. They do like messing with things that were perfectly fine in the first place tho.

  • OniWantsYourMacaroniOniWantsYourMacaroni Member Posts: 5,732

    Didn't they also say that they are happy with the way he performs and that he has a lot of counterplay?

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    This is from another thread, but I think my comment applies here too (some of the beginning is odd out of context)

    "I can tap the power button repeatedly and get it to overheat in a little over 11 seconds. That's not fast, and that's a huge penalty for something as little as what is effectively a taunt.

    While you may love the roar (for comedy?), I think it's far too silly. I stop and laugh at it as survivor, and that gets me dead. As a killer, it can be annoying and repetitive, given that I love going for chainsaws even if I know I can't hit them. It's the same deal with Nurse. The changes make players who just enjoy using his power for fun and not effectiveness are punished far beyond just missing an attack. I don't play Hillbilly to be as effective as I can be; I play just to enjoy the experience of going for bonkers chainsaws that work out 1/100 of the time, and then the survivors say, "oh, I wasn't expecting that." I am the kind of killer that is perfectly happy seeing the exit gates get powered as long as I've had ample opportunity to use my power for my pleasure, whether that results in downs or not.

    So, to me at the very least, what the devs did to Hillbilly was the worst thing they could have done. Instead of addressing backrevs, strange hitbox connections, and the speed of his chainsaw cooldown or even his movement speed during that, the devs went and just said, "NOPE! Our game is not for people who just want to have fun. Be competitive (we don't mind you having a little fun if you're competitive) like this is an E-sports tournament, or get lost!" And that's just disappointing..."

    The developers seem to always be making balance changes that weed out players who happen to do well while having fun, and they do this by preventing players from having fun and failing. For all perk changes in this patch, the developers taken their design yet again in the direction of "action, action, all the time!" at the expense of any killer or survivor playing more passively. This game does so well (in part) because of how many different styles of gameplay can all be sustained at the same time. Stealth lovers and chase lovers can both find their place in this game (with some exceptions of players directly conflicting in playstyes), but the devs are constantly trying to force players into a mold of how they think their game should be played rather than allowing for emergent techniques and styles. The Billy changes and Nurse changes are great examples of how no new tech was generated, and the old techniques were hindered to at least some extent while the add-ons now are very specific and are only functional in very specific ways the devs decided.

    Everything in terms of gameplay feels increasingly artificial and makes me less and less excited to play in a way that will surprise my opponents or teammates, because increasingly, I can't.

  • ShenaniganShenanigan Member Posts: 200

    I notice a lot how people say things about the devs.

    "They don't listen to the community"

    "They don't care about the community"

    "They're afraid of the community"

    I'm confused on this situation. They listened to community when they got complaints about Billy.

    They heard complaints on the overheat mechanic being to strict/restrictive and they listened to the feedback and decided to tweak it.

    Then the new add-ons (even though we can all agree they were pretty bad when they were first presented) had complaints which the devs listened to the community and gave them a rework.

    There's instances where they do listen to the community, because they can use our criticism and suggestions to improve their game and make it better. But when they make the changes some of us get antsy or just frustrated at the changes they suggested or the feedback they said (understandable depending on the situation), most of the time I understand what the community is trying to say to the devs and such. But at the same time it's really draining to see the devs not getting a win for doing what we've been saying over and over or at least trying to use our feedback and make changes to them.

    Sorry if this is a stupid thing to say or anything, but I just wanted to voice my say into this.

  • mostlyghostlymostlyghostly Member Posts: 135

    I never said they didn't listen to the community. I just don't know what's going on at BHVR's office that they don't bother changing perks that have been known to be absolutely awful for ages now. Perks that could be so easily changed but just aren't. Then they change billy with a new mechanic that basically does nothing and rework perks that didn't need to be reworked (aside from tinkerer)

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