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The real reason you hate Spirit

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  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 3,145

    Competitive games are hella fun. Why do you think E-sports exists?

    Because people have fun watching and playing it.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 6,475
    edited September 2020

    Why do people not understand their own heads? The fun in competitive games is the competition - which isn't what DBD used to be about, and isn't what the Devs have been going for, because that would make it available for e-sports and filled with the absolute brainfrying toxicity and sweat that that entails.

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 2,963
    edited September 2020

    People confuse competitive with e-sports all the time for some reason. DBD is a competitive game because players compete against eachother to win. That does not by any means mean its an e-sports/ready designed game. Blows my mind that people still confuse the two.

    Mario Party is another competitive game. See the distincition?

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    I mean I've been told league of legends isnt competitive before, some people are just odd.

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 3,145

    That is a fair point, I was just making the comparison between competitive games and E-sports.

    I should've probably made that more clear.

  • NekoGamerXNekoGamerX Member Posts: 3,778

    your right don't know why people don't understand this.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited September 2020

    If you read anyone's advice on how to run from Spirit, not one of them says "do random [BAD WORD]". Not one.

    You shouldn't be doing random things. You she be doing things that counter what you know to be her only valid options. In most cases that is 1) she is behind you or 2) she went around to the other side to cut you off.

    Run tiles. Use windows. Don't ever run back to the husk. Break LOS to force phase. Those are the basics to beat her. Nothing random, no guessing, if you know what she is and is not capable of you can counter play her. It doesn't matter if she knows where you are if she can never hit you coming out of phase anyway.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited September 2020

    The entirety of the FGC doesn't consider Smash a competitive game despite Smash Melee single handedly getting x10 more views on Twitch than all other games at Evo combined.

    No, the game itself is fun, AND winning is fun. No one plays a game that's not fun, whether they win or not. IDK why you insist that competitive games are not fun, that's like your opinion man. Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they will tell you they do it for fun. Only the top 1% of players may say "I do it for the money" because they are at a point where they actually make a living playing the game, and you don't necessarily have to have fun at work for you to continue to do it, do you?

    Also it doesn't matter what DBD "used to be about" whatever that means, or the devs intentions, the game is a competitive game because many many players are playing to win. At least at high ranks where Spirit is most common.

    It seems to me you just don't like eSports. Your comments about DBD are just so wrong there is no other explanation.

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 2,963
    edited September 2020

    None of these tactics work on me when I play spirit. The LOS one is usually countered by simply pretending to phase and they'll double back because there's a 9/10 chance you are trying to cut them off or short phasing for a second or two. Using pallets on anything but the safest pallets in the entire game like the basement ones on The Game or the badham basement isnt viable if your visible before phase and vaults are easy to hear. If its a short loop you can even just stand mid length around the pallet and phase in place and you'll get a free hit 9/10 as they try to predict which side to end up on.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    If she stands still, break LOS of the husk and just put as much distance as possible between you. I've had this work many many times, my guess is you're not committing enough to a direction and doubling back, which means less distance. If she is following you then she will be right on top of you now. If she is going around to cut you off, well now you're cut off and she's pushing you back the other way.

  • BigTimeGamerBigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752

    I hate spirit because she isnt fun and deletes any resource the survivor can use with minimal input or skill required

    its not complicated

  • MurloMurlo Member Posts: 3

    Mixup characters in fighting games and Spirit are nothing alike, I doubt OP has even a basic understanding of fighting games to make a post like that.

    Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back.

    In dbd all Spirit has to do is press M2. It doesn't matter what the survivor does, how experienced he his, how bad the spirit is, as long as she presses M2 she forces the surv to guess. Unlike a fighting game character she indeed does magically make you guess just by being there, she doesn't have to do anything to get her mixup. And what's the survs reward for reading correctly ? Like 7 seconds of breathing room before the Spirit presses M2 again ?

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    "Mixup situations in FGs are a reward for playing good, Zangief is a very annoying 50/50 character only when he is close to you, to balance that out he is extremely slow, has bad neutrals and huge hitbox. He doesn't magically make you guess just by being there, he has to find an opening first and his reward for playing good neutral with a bad neutral character is strong mixups. Missing a mixup also leads to punishment most of the time, if Zangief's opponent reads the command grab he gets a full combo, if he reads the meaty Zangief looses his offense and his opponent gets control back."

    Spirit is a 110 killer meaning it is easier to hide from her than a 115. She can't spend time searching for your, and her power is counter-productive to tracking so she can't use it to find you either. She has downsides outside of a chase, she is just really strong in a chase. If you hide and never get chased, well explain how that isn't counter play.

    Spirit has to find you before she can chase you. You don't need to "guess" as you people like to say if she's not chasing you.

    Missing a phase has a huge punishment. 110 for 15 seconds. If you miss enough phase hits that's all gens done and game.

  • MurloMurlo Member Posts: 3
    edited September 2020

    Do you even play the game ? If it was as easy as just "Hide and never get chased" then doctor and stealth killers would be S tier and all the other killers trash. Stealth barely works past rank 15, I can count on my hand the number of times I didn't manage to find a survivor who tried to hide in the past 2 months. And her being 110 makes it so you take like 1 second more to look around a place than 115 killers, damn what a drawback.

    You only are 110 for 15 seconds if you use your entire power, which any decent player doesn't do. You don't need more than 2-3 seconds of use to be where you want to be. Addons exist too.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited September 2020

    Stealth works just fine at all ranks. It's just not easy at high ranks. I play at rank 1 I literally just finish a game where I was able to hide from a Freddy while he searched for me around a gen. Made him waste a solid 20 seconds before he left to go to another gen, and guess what? I just got right back on the gen and finished. 3e, I escaped.

    Hiding is a completely valid and reasonable tactic. If you say it's not then you just suck at it plain and simple.

    Also if the Spirit is using their power in bursts then running tiles is even more effective on them. You eventually force them to use a full phase to catch up to you.

  • MurloMurlo Member Posts: 3

    I guess you are a galaxy brain top player then, stealth was the real meta all along and the huge majority is just too bad to figure it out. Can't wait to see you erase spirit and nurse players in tournaments dude

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,559

    uhh...but you shouldn't be comparing the one on one survivor-killer interaction to a fighting game? ...or maybe you should. And regardless, saying "the real reason" is implying that people haven't pointed out the fact that a big issue some people have with Spirit is the whole "standing still and not phasing" thing, which is your point about starting animations.

    Disclaimer: I don't mind Spirit and I quite liked playing against Prayer bead spirits (w/o Spine Chill I would like to point out).

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    Can I ask in the situation with the freddy were you asleep or awake, if asleep I'm really impressed given that blue glow everyone's got

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    I was asleep and he had Shadowborn.

    It wasn't hard. He hooked someone across the map, I had a feeling he was coming to my gen (why he didn't teleport IDK), so I walked away to another tile. Halfway there I heard the lullaby. He came over, kicked my gen with Pop and looked for me for like 20 seconds. Guy got saved about when he got to me, so by hiding I reset all his pressure because the guy was healed and on another gen by the time he got back.

    Stealth doesn't have to be anything crazy. Literally just walk away and don't let the killer see you. If they waste time looking for you that's as good as a chase.

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 891

    Why do people still compare DBD to fighting games? That's just such a ridiculous comparison IMO. Would you really claim to be able to 'read' an unknown opponent if you died in two hits while being unable to see or hear the opponent in a fighting game? You have no time to learn that at all if they are an expert at Spirit.


    @thesuicidefox Crossplay is on now. I'm willing to let you show me these Spirit counters at any time.

  • GoodLookinCookinGoodLookinCookin Member Posts: 339

    Dead By Daylight Esports players up in here

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 6,475
    edited September 2020

    "Ask anyone that plays a game competitively and they say it's for fun."

    Yeah. Competitively. That's my point. It's not fun to muck about in competitive games. They're playing to win, and by winning they have fun, not by just playing the game. It's basic psychology: Pit people against one a other and most of them will try to win because they don't care about anything else.

    That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,132

    It is a game where you compete against other players, rather aggressively at that. It has established metas, rewards for success, and punishments for failure. Saying this game "clearly isn't for" someone because they also enjoy competitive games (that, you know, have those things in common) is being a bit rude to say the least. Also kinda pointless.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 6,475

    If DBD was a competitive game, then 2 competitive teams would have a relatively even chance of success. And yet the term "deathsquad" exists for a reason: There's no chance at all, even if you're the best Nurse player with an Ebony Mori, to win. If DBD was even slightly considered competitive, that would be every other trial instead of every tenth.

    And that's ignoring all the times the Devs have said it's not a competitive game and shouldn't be treated as such.

    Siege player, BTW. Love the game. Love the competition. DBD is not and never should get anywhere close to that, because not every game needs to be that. If people want DBD to be that... Then it really isn't the game for them.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,132

    That just means that the balance in the game is bad, not that its not competitive. And is your argument really "the game can't be competitive, because not every game is a coordinated swf?" You DO realize that people don't take advantage of every possible exploit in competitive games, right? You learn more from a loss than a win, thats one of the most important fundamental aspects of ANY competitive game. Winning is the goal, but what you take away from a loss can make it more rewarding than an easy win. You're acting like every match in any competitive game is a money match.

    There are no bots in the game, there isn't even an "unranked" mode. SWF goes against the game's core design, and was added in after the fact because of survivors who were basically sabotaging the matchmaking system to get teamed up with each other. Survivor and killer objectives directly conflict with one another. It is purely pvp. it is competitive.

    Competitive doesn't mean "multi-million dollar e-sports tournaments."

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited September 2020

    1) There is a fighting game called Divekick that is literally that. You die in 1 or 2 hits. The entire game is a bit of a meme, but fighting games like this do exist.

    2) Some infinite combos exist in some games such that, basically getting hit once or twice is death against a good player. UMVC3's Zero is a prime example of this, he has a 0 to death combo on pretty much every character in the game. All it takes is 1 hit confirm and your character is dead.

    3) Yes crossplay is on but there are some issues. First frame rates are still god awful on console and it's honestly not fair at all to play against a PC player with uncapped/stabled 60 FPS while our game can barely run at 30 FPS. If you don't believe me go play on console and just wait until you get hit by Sloppy. The game shits itself. Second, and I've made this point before, you are a good killer. I honestly doubt I could outplay you when you are Bubba let alone Spirit. I mean just the fact you have that one video of you getting like 40 4k's in a row with pre-update speed limiter Bubba should say to you "hey there's not many survivors that can outplay me, period."

    Maybe later in the year when the game comes out on Series X and such I'll take up the offer but for now I don't think it will actually prove anything.

    EDIT: I'd also like to point out that you clearly misunderstand what a read actually is.

    A read is not a REACTIVE action. It is a PREDICTIVE action. You don't read an opponent by reacting to their character's animation or something. You read them by predicting what they will do and then pre-emptively countering them. This is exactly what you need to do against a mix up character, and exactly what you need to do against Spirit. You need to make accurate predictions.

    And no a prediction is not a guess I've been over this. A prediction factors in information, previous encounters, and just basic knowledge of the game. A guess is just a shot in the dark. You can predict someone will do a thing. If you skip back a few pages I posted a Smash Melee video of top 10 reads. Again the second clip, Luigi read that Peach would tech roll to the left, so he did a landing wavedash left then did up B on the confirm for the tech roll. He PREDICTED she would do that because she was close to death and the safest option would be to roll closer to the middle of the stage. He might have also notice he rolls left so he was taking advantage of his opponents predictability. Nothing what happened there was him reacting to the roll animation or any of this stuff you seem to think. It was a prediction. He had 4 options, tech roll left (safe), tech roll right (unsafe), tech in place (unsafe) or don't tech (super unsafe). So tell me of those 4 options which do you think the other guy will pick? The safest option, which he did.

    Post edited by thesuicidefox on
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    "That's not DBD. Go back to the competitive scene. This is clearly not the game for you."

    I legit LOL'd here. Bro, what planet are you on where neither killers nor survivors are sweating to win at high ranks? Like really get with the program.

  • azameazame Member Posts: 2,870
    edited September 2020

    Number 1 custom games with 2 people run at 60 frames. Stop making excuses lol. Also doesnt that kinds prove you cant counter a good spirit because you said it yourself you are scared and hes good. It's all good though.

  • ScottJundScottJund Member Posts: 891

    I feel like its not fair to have the defense of "Well you're good at the game so there wouldn't be a point." No one is complaining about bad Spirits that don't know what they're doing.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited September 2020

    Bro it's the same thing if you asked Mew2King to prove to you that [insert character] is overpowered. I'm willing to bet regardless of who you pick he can make them seem overpowered because he is a really good player (one of the best in the world) and you're not that good (I assume maybe you play Melee but I'm still confident you are no where near M2K).

    Like really what do you expect to get out of this challenge? You saying "1v1 me bro" in a game that's not exclusively about a 1v1. My friend Cesar is really good at the game, one of the best survivors I know, but when we go into a KYF to practice and it's just me chasing him I catch him in like 30-40 seconds as most killers. But I know in a real game I'd spend like 2 minutes easy chasing him. Like yea you caught Zubat pretty fast in a 1v1, but do you think you'd still catch him that fast in a real match? I honestly doubt it. A real game is different than this little highly controlled environment.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is that all these types of challenges prove is that you are better than another player, not that there is a problem with the game or character or whatever.

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