This is not an accurate comparison. I used to play Spirit. She was the first one I moved away from Trapper for. The problem was, she gave me a false sense of security. I was a middle of the road killer trying to ween myself off of NOED as my crutch. I started using Spirit and felt good. I was getting 3 to 4k every match. I could end loops easily with her power. I could easily locate survivors while phasing through sound. No matter what trick they used, it was easy.
Then I played Trapper and Pig again and got destroyed. I could not sit back and easily isolate survivors. I had to work out mind games and learn from mistakes.
I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play. The best counter play to Spirit is hoping the one playing her is not very good.
Now, I rarely run her unless there is a daily for her. I'm much better as a killer, especially with Trapper, because I did not have the easy win button.
Spirit, especially with Stridor, is not fun for many because she outright eliminates the skill level of the survivors she faces. It is more about the killer's skill level than anything else.
"I eventually added one plus one and figured out that Spirit was easy because she does not have much, if any counter play."
Alternative theory, Spirit makes survivors brains leak out their ears and they just do really really stupid things that actually just make it easier to catch them. I play Spirit, Huntress, and Nurse primarily. I notice that anytime I play Spirit survivors just do REALLY dumb [BAD WORD]. Like super dumb [BAD WORD]. [BAD WORD] I would never expect them to do against any other killer. [BAD WORD] that just makes no sense.
Spirit feels easy because survivors overthink how to outplay her and end up outplaying themselves.
Thank you for your input. You have a valid point about vortex characters, I didn't even think about that. Good looking out.
However, as I've stated before, you're not guessing against Spirit. She generally has 2-3 valid options to actually catch you and you usually have at least 1 option on any given tile that would avoid at least 2 of her options. Some tiles can avoid all of them, for example really strong windows like Ward or even Suffocation Pit (both the building and having connected LT walls in the middle).
Against a vortex you are definitely going to get hit, it's a matter of which move you get hit with. Against Spirit you are not always going to get hit because she can't reach you with phase, but the chase will continue because she will end phase and still be following you. It's like you avoid the vortex but the it's still the other guys turn, if that makes sense.
-Fair point in that it is not base kit. However the option still exists and still illustrates the point that the Spirit does essentially 0 guess work while the survivor has 0 real information.
-Stridor 'distorts' depth perception for only as long as you are not used to the change. A Spirit who runs Stridor and is familiar with the change suffers no downsides. In general, these arguments tend to assume the players are familiar and skilled with their respective side.
-The discussion around punishment/reward is an attempt to display how in a fighting game the defender still has agency and can turn the interaction around. If a Spirit minds their phasing bar they will never be punished in any real amount for making a mistake.
All of this is merely an attempt to illustrate why Spirit is not a 50/50 and why games with Spirit can be seen as unfun for the survivors.
Once again in a custom game the frames are great. Trust me we can try it out if you want its Azame San on xbox. Restart your game and let's hop in a custom just us two and run around and experience it.
You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay.
A 1v1 doesn't just show who's better than another. If you say there is counterplay why not showcase it 1v1 or not you should be able to do it. The only artificial thing is the predetermined start area other than that it's a normal chase which you keep trying to say otherwise.
On your gears situation season 1 in ranked match was busted placing diamond meant nothing and the opponents 4 years ago were not good. Diamond in the later seasons such as 6 took more skill.
You claim you beat some many spirits and outplay them and everyone just refuses to learn how to loop differently. Scott jund is no different. Its whatever though man if you cant showcase the counterplay it only makes you look bad.
She's not fun to play against.
I dont see how he contradicts himself in that situation, would you care to elaborate?
Also in a 1v1 situation all you have to think about is the specific chase, you dont need to worry about keeping any pressure on gens, or worrying about anything else at all except the chase, which will inevitably skew results.
1v1s dont really reflect balance in any game involving teams, especially in asymmetric games but even in symmetrical team based games, such as league of legends for example, you wouldn't use a 1v1 to prove whether or not vayne or jinx are overpowered, as they are designed in a way that they rely on their team to peel for them so they do the damage.
Similarly DBD is designed in a way where 1 killer has a chance to win against 4 survivors, therefore if you reduce the survivors numbers the game will start to favour the killer more and more.
"You just contradicted yourself. "All 1v1 do is prove one player is better than another. I never took a 1v1 despite being better than 95% of the players." It's fine you cant prove spirit has counterplay."
Yea because I'm so much better than the average player I could "prove" Snub is overpowered. It's not, I'm just a really really good player. It doesn't matter what I use, I will win against the other guy way more often than I lose.
So basicly you want to be able to win vs the killer 1v1 in the only aspect of the game you like and that already works on the majority of killers.
Part of the reason they are trying outlandish tactics is because the norm, or logical, do not work. From the survivor side there is way too much chance involved. There is little to no way of knowing what side of a window or pallet Spirit is moving on. Sometimes they just try to do something unexpected and it turns into a worse situation.
Honestly, I think 3 minor tweaks could fix all the issues on Spirit.
1. Make it more difficult to track by simple sounds, such as breathing and footfalls while phasing. Either make it greatly intermittent or just increase the noise the killer hears from the phasing sound itself. Make the killer's skill at anticipating survivor actions more important.
2. Have her movement "kick up dust". Let the survivor see an ever so subtle movement of grass or dust as she moves. Skilled survivors, or attentive ones, might pick up on it to make a play.
3. With the previous 2 intact, revert to the old Prayer Beads where phasing makes no noise at all. Survivors will be warned of her approach if they are paying attention. There will be grass or disturbed environmental as she moves.