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Survivor toxicity vs Killer toxicity

Everyone (or at least everyone who is rational) knows that toxicity happens on both sides of the game. However, I hardly think the two sides are comparable or equal and here's what I mean by that.

What are some typical things that survivors do that are considered toxic by their opponents? Click flashlights, t-bag, vault spam over pallets and windows....

What are some typical things killers do that are considered toxic by their opponents? Face camping, hard tunneling, tunneled and morid off of 1st hook, slugging and making someone bleedout for 4 minutes. body blocking someone in a corner as the wraith for 5 gens (happened to me twice)

Notice the difference? Not the size of the list because I'm sure someone will come in here and bring up something else on the survivor end. But the main difference is that a "toxic" survivor is annoying. That's it. They're an auditory or visual nuisance. A "toxic" killer literally stops one or more people from being able to play the game.

A person spamming the crouch button may be toxic but you can still play the game and go about your business. A person camping and tunneling you immediately off hook gives you absolutely no options.

I think this also explains why there's more post game survivor salt than post game killer salt (well that and because there's more survivors in sheer number). A killer deals with a team of jerks spamming the crouch button and clicking flashlights, sure they might be annoyed a little. A survivor gets face camped and doesn't get to even play the game, that's actually frustrating. (Note: This is NOT a defense for people who tell you to [BAD WORD] or hope you get cancer or anything like that in post game chat. I will never defend that)


Anyway, that's just my observation and my opinion. Knowing these forums, I'm sure many will disagree

Comments

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,461
    edited September 2020

    Correction. NONE of those things you list are the so-called "toxic." Those are play style tactics and strategies on both sides of the coin. The term "toxic" needs to be purged from our collective vocabulary because it means whatever anyone wants it to mean. The only damaging behavior, to the community, is being a bad sport (or person) in the pre-game and post-game chatter. Caveat, the endless whining, shaming, and rants about "toxic" behavior over here on the Forum is also bad.

    What happens in the game, stays in the game. Those things you describe are choices and can be answered by other choices in the game. Too much energy is wasted on them. Your bait to try and weigh in on what behaviors you PREFER is just another version of shaming and wasting our time. What we need to be tackling are people who disconnect and ruin games for other players, people who insult, threaten, shame, and say creepy crud like "I hope your cat dies... you camper!" Those things are bad and worthy of discussion. The stuff you are talking about should only be discussed in posts that offer suggestions and advice on how to counter play it.

  • RakimSockemRakimSockem Member Posts: 1,264

    There's a reason I chose my wording carefully and said "considered to be toxic by their opponents".

    I agree that most (because slugging someone and letting them bleed out with no one else to chase isn't a "strategy") of what I said isn't ACTUALLY toxic. But those things are perceived to be toxic by the community and by players.

    I also agree and said at the end of my post that we should never defend and should go after people who say harmful things or make threats (however empty they may be) in post game chat

  • UnicornUnicorn Member Posts: 2,194

    I agree with @Moundshroud, not how he/she said it, just what he/she said.


    The word toxic is used way to fluently in the community for things that wouldn’t even be considered real toxicity. None of that compares to being told to “off” yourself after a match, or being cyber-bullied personally on other platforms. It’s happened to me, & the person that targeted me got a group of friends to join in and comment disgusting things under my Youtube channel.


    Teabagging, Camping, Clicking Flashlights, Pointing, whatever. It’s all just in-game taunts used to portray a certain gesture (not saying it’s right but it’s literally nothing compared to what people actually endure out of game). When it gets personal it gets personal and that’s worse than anything in game.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,461

    Fair enough, and that is why I didn't go after you with a rhetorical sledgehammer. But even having this discussion perpetuates the notion (the perception as you call it) that these behaviors are somehow "bad" and that the focus should be on them. What happens in the game should only get answered in the game. I'm merely pointing out that the emphasis of your post was on play style choices, with an after thought to pre-game and post-game chatter. That shapes the argument; do you see what I mean.

    I'm a pretty vocal guy, someone who is an opinionated ass. I try to remain civil and ethical at all times. We all fail in what we try to do now and then. I've kind of made it my personal mission to put the emphasis back where it belongs, i.e. the pre-game, post-game, and posts on the Forum. That is what is damaging the community, creating memes, and a perception that one thing is broken or that a behavior is only done by toxic Players. All of that is garbage. This is a full contact sport, albeit virtually. If it is legal in the game, there is no reason anyone should be commenting on it other than to offer advice. I will step in anytime someone start spewing this garbage and I will take out the rhetorical sledgehammer.

    I like this game. I like this community. I believe, based on my experience so far, that most of the community is made up of good people. Most of them are not jerks pre-game or post-game, and most play for the love of the game. I despise the vocal minority born of entitlement and internet trollishness who seem to make it their mission in life to make others miserable and tear things down. That is a windmill that I will gladly tilt against.

  • SquirrelKnightSquirrelKnight Member Posts: 951

    If we are talking about toxic behaviour, the death threats and comments to kill myself are unwarranted

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,461

    Yeah. If I had a nickel for every time I've gotten one of those... I wouldn't be rich but I'd be enjoying a very expensive meal.

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,487
    edited September 2020

    I think this thread is besides the point.

    Toxicity is toxicity. If we stop seeing it as what it is and start to categorize it, we also start to legitimize it.

    We can only hope that it in general stops one day, even if that is utopian.

  • Luciferr_2ndLuciferr_2nd Member Posts: 883

    I understand what you mean

    I literally just got a facecamping bubba...

    Free depip for me :D

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,263

    In the past couple of days I've experienced bad behaviour from both sides, but to be absolute about this it has only happened in these games alone. All other games have been played versus decent people and I just like to say recently my matches have been vastly more positive both before, during and after the trial.

    As survivor, I competed against a camping, teabagging Ghost Face (basically, the worst of both worlds in one - horrific!!). I survived with a hatch escape (and yes, a few teabags of my own to avenge my fallen comrades).

    As Wraith, a rare glimpse into the world of a 4-man SWF with OoO. A headache? Yes. Teabagging and torches? Yes. Post game abuse? ... No! I'm not ashamed to admit I got 0k, but I did get a few hooks and ended up with Brutal Killer (which is a win for me!).

    I do tend to agree a Killer toxicity is more punishing tham survivors. However, maybe we're all using toxic in not quite the right context. Bitter comments and threats and racist/homophobic/mental-health slurs are definitely toxic and should be punished. In-game antics, whilst sometimes feeling toxic, are all allowed within the rules. They could be labelled "unsportsman-like" or "childish", but toxic to me implies something more than acting like a doofus. Toxicity to me is disgusting behaviour. In-game, it's more childish or dull.

    But yeah, towards your original question, a Killer's action is more damning than Survivors. Still, both are a bit annoying - nothing more.

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