The game is definitely killer sided. But a lot of that goes out the window when survivors have communication. That's not to say that killers don't need buffs -- they definitely do. But comms make a HUGE difference.
Considering I'm not a scumbag, I don't use Moris, nor do a lot of killers, but most games I load into have survivors with keys, maps and toolboxes. Also to say that maps aren't survivor sided is a joke, worst case I've had was on groaning storehouse, there was jungle gyms separated by a mere unsafe pallet. Also shelter woods? Yeah, there isn't that many safe pallets, but there is a [BAD WORD] ton of unsafe ones, and all the gens are separated, I can agree with dead dawg, unless it's Vs a 4 man blendettes, and also, chapel? Is that a [BAD WORD] joke? The size of that map combined with the amount of windows and pallets near the middle is ridiculous. Also, just quickly, name a map that has "deadzone after deadzone"
The game is killer sided based on the average result. Personally I expect nothing less than a 4k. A 2k feels like a complete loss at this point because I'm so used to getting EVERYONE.
At the highest level of play however the game is survivor sided because technically it is always possible to run the killer long enough for the team to pump out a few 80 second gens.
Yesterday I got tunneled into oblivion by a Huntress and after 2 min 40sec the 5th gen popped. That's only 3 survivors doing gens since I didn't get to even touch a gen at all.
That's how quick gens can fly if people didn't mess around all the time. If all survivors were THAT fast with the gens the whole game design would look A LOT different on both sides.
The game is determined by the skill of the survivors. Good survivors will be able to consistently beat the killer, and killer's at high rank experience this often. It's also why at high ranks virtually all killers run corrupt intervention, pop goes the weasel, and BBQ and Chili, because you need these perks to have a chance to control the gens when the survivors are at a high skill level.
At low survivor skill level, the games are killer sided. This is because the survivors make lots of mistakes that the killer capitalizes on and creates too much pressure for the survivors as a team to handle. This is what makes games feel "killer sided," but fundamentally it is a misunderstanding that it isn't "killer sided" it is that the survivors are just bad.
The two worlds at the ends of the survivor skill level are like night and day.
It depends on the killer you play against and how good he is. A good looper, can just extend the chase very long, so you have to abandon that guy and go for the others.
The game HAS to be harder for killers, it’s a 1v4 it’s just the way it is. Your mistakes as killer SHOULD be 4 times more impactful compared to a survivor making mistakes.
Also have you played Solo survivor?? If you balance this game around high level SWF players you’ll simply kill the game for the majority of the playerbase. I still get solo games where my whole team loses to the “weak” Wraith, Ghostface, Trapper etc...
Gonna be 'that guy', but I feel like this is a very gross oversimplification of the game.
The game being weighted very heavily towards killer or survivor depends on so many factors- the skill of the killer and survivors, what killer is being played on what map, what their add-ons are, what either side has for perks, what the offerings and items are, etc, etc.
At it's highest level at base, yes, the game is heavily Survivor sided. If you're playing a sub-par (or just misplay) against a sweaty SWF who treat every game like a tournament, you're either going to have to sweat your ass off, DC, or get bullied for ten minutes.
However, at the same time, not every game is sweaty SWF. And when you do play those games with really good add-ons against good (but still not 100% optimal or coordinated) survivors, and it can be an absolute massacre.
Personally, I play both sides (Rank 1 Survivor, Rank 4 killer rn). And my killer games are a mixed bag, depending on the factors above. My survivor games, on the other hand, solo-queue or not, are generally along the massacre side. We usually only get a 1 man escape, and we'll get a few 3 man escapes a night, but it's rare to see anything more then that.
So yes, Survivor is the power role because the Devs push the idea of this being a 'competitive' game, but when you bring key competitive aspects into it (like comms) the system breaks. Outside of that, the game is really well balanced, and in a lot of ways, it is killer sided. (I get why killers do it, but man does it suck to be facecamped at five gens as you watch your other survivors eat beans in the corner instead of doing gens. Or to get mori'd off of first hook because you were found immediately at the start of the game, made a bad play, and then got tunneled and now have less then 5k points to show for the match.)
The game isn't really strictly sided one way or another imho. There's too many things that make the game random (along with fun and interesting to play) that changes the game so much on a match by match basis, that it's just shifting based off the match.
The game is killer sided until you get to green ranks, balanced more or less purple through red, and survivor sided in the highest level of play (4 skilled survivors on comms).
You are a pompous ass. If you don't have the DLC just buy them...
Not everyone has a mummy or daddy to step in when they need money. Some of us have to work and have people to support. So maybe don't have spare cash for a video game.
You completely missed his point though. Some of the best survivor perks are free from the get go, whilst the best killer perks are all locked behind a pay wall.
So survivors get the advantage of headsets and always knowing when it's safe to do gens/unhooks, as well as the best perks from the offset. Whilst a killer who doesn't have rich parents or lack of responsibilities has to cross his fingers that it shows up in the shrine?
Yeah, definitely balanced... (<Sarcasm)
With all the responses, idk if it's been said already, but the main thing I can think of is if a tunneling killer brings in an Ebony Mori.
How i see it is at the start it is survivor sided but once a few survivors die the power role goes to the killer
I am a pompous ass because of what? Buying the DLCs? Are you drunk?
If you want to have something, buy it. If you dont have the money for it, safe it and work for it and dont blow it out for whatever stuff.
When i was a kid / young adult back in the 80s and 90s, videogames for console costed about 100 Dollar where i lived. The value of this would be more then 200 Dollar / Euro nowadays. I worked for a single game during summer just to be able to buy this for my 8 or 16 bit nintnedo. A normal walkthrough was maybe a few hours. Was i complaining? Heck no, it was awesome.
Today you get a game you can spend thousends of hours for almost free. Dead by Daylight costed a few $/€ on sale ... and DLCs are the same. If you get them all on sale, you spend maybe 50€ for a game+DLCs... and you can play them for YEARS and devs still deliver and update content. Even if it would be 200 € Its an absolute joke to complain about.
And on top of it, you can even get perks and DLCs for free on the shrine. You can even buy most dlcs for free, so again whats the problem mate?
And to talk about "advantage" because the better perks you have to "buy"... so when they rework some perks what they do right now and all the best killer perks suddenly are "free" and for all the good survivor perks we have to spend money on suddenly... are we then complaining about the same but this time survivors are the kacked? Just pointless, sorry.
They have not released stats since last November to my knowledge.
Since then there have been changes to both sides, but (this is debatable without stats) they tend to be nerfing survivors more than killers, IMHO.
The major ones being:
Killer- ruin rework, nurse major nerf, spirit minor nerf
Survivor- ds rework, bl nerf, heavy map nerfs
EGC- killer sided buff.
I don't think they'll be releasing stats again because they were not well received on the forums (go figure, killer sided forum not okay with stats showing that infact survivors are not the power role contrary to popular belief).
Also, I recall devs saying myers is in a good balanced place recently, but killer mains on the forum thinking he is too weak give enough of a gauge on what the reality of the game is vs what people on the forum think.
It's a horrible game to try to manage balance. It's a 1 vs. 4 so, the Killer needs to be OP and be able to win a majority of chases or, Killer wouldn't be fun and, only the best players would actually play Killer.
Trying to beat red rank Killers as a solo is not easy and, people generally like to play games with their friends if they can. At any point the Killer can use dirty tactics to secure kills, face camps, basement camps, slugging, ect.
As a survivor main, I find the game becomes less fun once I hit purple and red ranks. I either have to play SWF to have decent games or, I solo que and de-pip back to green ranks.
Well everyone makes it sound like survs win just by logging into the match, so what does it matter what player is it. Seriously though : I do my job in trial, help others, and yet it all means nothing. Therefore sthg is wrong.
Yes you are still a pompous ass. Once again you talk about saving money when you were a kid and suggest that I am blowing my money on other things.
What I am saying is that you are obviously privileged if you think everyone is in the same situation where they blow money on things.
I make sacrifices so that the people I love can eat and have some of the nice things in life like internet and mobile phones.
I don't have money, not because I am blowing it, because I spend every penny looking after my family.
I play video games occasionally to de-stress. So when I see that a game gives out the best perks for free for one team, while the other has the best perks hidden behind a pay wall, I would consider that an advantage for one side over the other.
Can you honestly say that this isn't the case? Can you honestly argue that this isn't a blatant advantage?
If so then there is no point in continuing this discussion. You will always believe that the game is perfectly balanced because you had money to 'blow' on DLC.
Just so you know. I have so little money I didn't even buy this game, my friend bought it for my birthday so we'd have something to play together. Not everyone has the same opportunities as you. Suggesting that a game is balanced because you can just spend more money on it is stupid.
By that logic Battlefront 2 by EA was a perfectly balanced game with all of its loot boxes and micro-transactions.
Cuz somehow to them running in circles and pressing a single button for almost everything is harder then anything 😂
That's subjective and swf was always intended.
You shouldn't have to wait for when the devs think a DLC perk should be on the shrine. BBQ itself has only appeared roughly 2-3 times on the shrine. There are a lot of free perks (Agitation, Lightborn, Enduring) are quite common.
Besides, comms will outweigh any perks a killer can have any day.
Items are only as useful as the survivor using it. I have used toolboxes to complete 1 crucial gen extremely quickly, while others waste it as the progress earned is removed.
Keys get stronger based on how many people die + how many gens get done. Moris do not. They can even be detrimental if a key (or someone with plunderers instinct) exists. It is infuriating to have a game in your control after a tough tug of war, only to have the remaining survivors leave via the hatch, which they can even control now through offerings. It is just ridiculous.
Saloon is not killer sided. I would call it neutral, as it depends on how both sides act. Coldwind can be very survivor sided as well, Both Yamaokas are survivor sided... but that is not the issue. Many of the tiles are easy to loop from one to another, even for a bad survivor like myself, and many are way too safe. And boring. There is no intensity if there are no stakes, and these tiles often rob the stakes from the chase, as you know you will just get to a vault or a pallet, taking you out of danger.
Survivors needed the nerfs, as there was no medium vault, there was no momentum mechanic (which I think needs a rework), every window was open, general infinites, and exhaustion went down even if you were running... it was legitimately an unfair situation at the time. It is not perfect balance yet, but it is a far sight better than it used to be.
I almost forgot to mention, but gens used to take 40 seconds, and BNPs completed an entire gen.
Tru3talent has a video of DBD in 2016. I would recommend watching it before listing off the survivor nerfs as a defense.
Actually swf was added latter in the game. I also don't believe headsets were intended.
This is correct. SWF was not originally intended; it was quickly rushed in because of demand. This is the reason why your entire party would originally disband after a match.
Its killer sided for the solo q... :(
there’s too many variables to say either side is more powerful tbh
like, theres times where sheltered woods can spawn 4 pallets including shack, thats a very killer sided match
This discussion is from September. Killers lost their moris.
So uhh, yeah. Game is as survivor sided as it gets.
On the plus side: killers have instant lobbies, because there are not enough killers around.
I mostly die as a survivor and always 3-4k as a killer, that’s my reason
I honestly wish I could enjoy survivor but no matter how many videos I watch and how much I practice I feel like I get humiliated each game.
As a killer I didn’t need much practice, I just kinda got the hang of it. My only complaint is how anxious I feel sometimes, to the point where I’m shaking. Even if I 3-4k I still feel unhappy with the result. I never feel anxious as a survivor, mainly just angry.
(I’m a red rank on both sides, platinum for the game)
They either don't play killer or they only play with strong-ish stuff.
This game is killer sided in the vast majority of games. Sure, maybe the game sometimes might favor survivors if you have 4 good players on a team against a low tier killer but these games are rare. I play against a good team of survivors maybe once every 15-20 games and these tend to be the most enjoyable and challenging games for me.
If you are playing solo/duo queue or even trio queue as survivor you are probably in for a bad time if the killer has any idea what they are doing.
Let's tear this apart...
#1 - "Many survivor perks can be obtained for free" - Brutal Strength, Enduring, Tinkerer, Stridor, Thana, Nurses's Calling, Shadowborn
#2 - Items and Offerings? Iri Head/Inf Belt/Exhaustion Hatchets, Tombstone(Any), Pinky Finger/Exhaustion Bottles, Bloody Coil, Rusty Shackles/Mint Rag, Iri King/Queen, Swing Chains/Paint Brush, Iri Button, Silent Bell/Bone Clapper, Mother-Daughter Ring, Yakuyoke Amulet
#3 - All of DeadZone Haven, Any indoor map, Dead Dawg, Shelter Woods.. But there's a fair balance of both Killer and Survivor sided maps.
#4 -Glitches are glitches.. and both sides have them so I wont even get into that.
Now lets talk what killers get that survivors don't.
Pardon my incredibly late responses, everyone. I haven't checked the forums since Christmas.
With the new UI changes, this will be partially solved.
Shelter Woods is just an example of poor map design. Balanced Landing is impossible to use now that the tree has been nerfed, and Head On is difficult to use due to the entire middle of the map being a dead zone. The Head On point is also the reason vault and pallet spawns are unforgiving.
Killers lost their Moris, and in the recently mentioned changes, keys are nowhere to be seen. The notes are also as survivor sided as possible. Fast lobbies because people don't want to deal with the pain of playing killer, but I guess yay to those killer mains.
I don't mean to come off rude here, even though it is impossible to see it otherwise, but there is a large difference between game balance and player skill. You can't say the game favors one side because you aren't as good at playing that role as you are in another role.
I've seen a large influx of DS + Unbreakable, keys, and secondary use med-kit addons. Fortunately, I have been seeing fewer and fewer Object users.
The game relies on RNG (random number generator. This determines what tiles, vaults, windows, and debris will spawn. The issue is it is incredibly busted. Shelter Woods is bad by design, so it cannot be mentioned, but The Game is just safe pallet after safe pallet; Crotus Prenn is a TL Wall into a jungle gym into a pallet gym into a powerful filler pallet into the main building. If you read through my replies to other people, you will also see how nothing has been done to powerful survivor perks or items, but Moris and Undying have received hefty nerfs.
Brutal Strength and Enduring are the only good perks you mentioned.
Tinkerer is powerful, but if you aren't a mobility killer and are far from the proceed gen, then you most likely won't make it in time to push the survivors off.
Stridor is not a good perk. Unless you are an average Spirit main or going for Adept Nurse, then the perk is niche.
Thanatophobia got nerfed pretty badly recently, having lost the reduced healing speed in turn for like 3 or 4 percent slower gen speeds?
Nurse's Calling is a great perk, it's just not something you see anymore. It's relatively common on both Huntress and Deathslinger since they have ranged attacks as well as Ghost Face due to his stealth abilities, but just like Stridor, it isn't great on many other killers.
Shadowborn is good on Ghost Face and Michael since it increases the FOV of which they can stalk, but it isn't useful on many other killers. It can be good on Huntress if you get used to it, but mainly players see it as more of a detriment than an aid.
I will agree with you on the Huntress addons, but only because of dedicated servers and latency causing her hatchet hitboxes to be incredibly wide and tall.
No one uses Tombstone Piece unless they are doing something specific or just don't have the entire Tombstone. Even if they have the ultra-rare version, it is only good with infinite, which is difficult to reach tier 3 with both add-ons equipped.
Clown's Tonic bottles are the most difficult ranged weapon in the game to land hits with, so Pinky Finger can end-up providing no value if you don't have a good aim; exhaustion add-ons should just be eradicated IMO, or be higher rarities.
Rusty Shackles are good and don't need to be changed, but Mint Rag can hurt you more than it can help due to its cooldown.
King is pretty broken, but Queen doesn't offer much for being an ultra-rare addon.
Swing chains and paintbrush aren't even that great unless paired with slowdown perks. The devs went overboard with buffing Freddy, even completely ignoring the way he works in the movies.
Iridescent button isn't even amazing. Decent info, but nothing else. Legion's best add-ons are the duration ones.
If Wraith didn't have either of those addons, he would be even worse than he already is.
Yakuyoke Amulet is good, but the trade-off with the Mother-Daughter ring is not worth it.
Autohaven has all of the good car loops and really good filler pallets. It's really determined by RNG. The Game is killer-sided by design, but it is just safe pallet on top of safe pallet. Dead Dawg I don't have much to say about. Shelter Woods is terrible map design, even after the rework. It is the killers' version of Haddonfield.
Yes, glitches are unintentional, but more of them tend to affect killer than survivor, and in negative ways.
There are times where I've jumped in before they close it, and without them hitting me. Plus, if there are three survivors and one leaves with a key, but the killer closes the hatch, then that is two survivors who get a second chance with the exit gates.
There isn't much you can do here aside from widening the space between the obstacles the pallet rests on-which would probably look clunky-or remove the collision that survivors have with killers.
A tunneling/camping killer is throwing the game. Sure, it ruins one player's experience, but with Moris being nerfed, tunneling isn't as much of a problem anymore.
You can still get many altruism points for unhooking and reuniting with survivors. You also get assist points regardless if the survivor can be healed or not. Stealth killers still provide boldness points. A T1 Myers and shrouded Ghost Face can still chase you and you can still get chase points. Ranged killers also provide boldness points unless you're getting hatchet sniped.
Unless it was a streamer, and even then, survivors would DC if a killer brought a Mori. A 4-man SWF could bring a map and key, but as soon as that offering doesn't flip, someone is closing their app.
I rarely depip from a killer intentionally playing bad or going AFK. It has only ever happened once, and it's because my teammates rushed the gens and gates, preventing me from getting anything done.
A 3-gen situation is caused by survivors, not killers. The killer can play a part in forming a 3-gen by protecting certain generators over others, but it is still the survivor popping the gen.
2 exit gates exist to combat this specifically. Survivors can also use hatch if it hasn't been closed or if they have a key.
I spent way too long on this.
I imagine it's the potatoes in red ranks that skew the kill rate statistics, rather than the top performing players. It would be REALLY awesome to see kill rates for players that average 20+ hours a week, and maintain an average rank of 1 or 2 for half of that time spent playing.