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WHY This Game Will Never Be "Balanced"

One thing that I see a lot of posts saying is that this game will never be in a true state of balance, and yes, I can agree. BUT what I'm going to try and explore here is not at all that the devs are incompetent, but rather that what we have here in Dead by Daylight are two completely SEPARATE GAMES that are technically being forced to work side by side. I'll give you a brief run-down on what I have observed with playing both sides and see if we can all see why both sides will never be satisfied.

SURVIVOR:

  • 3rd person Survival Horror.
  • More team focused, rather than individual skill. I can run a killer for 3 minutes with no objectives complete or they can be done before a 30 second chase is over.
  • Based highly on the information given and how the player acts upon it.
  • No difference between Survivor playstyles across characters, outside of very minute points such as skin selection, character models size and character noises
  • Two objectives: Complete objective A, or find objective B after team fails.


KILLER:

  • First person HUNTING SIMULATOR.
  • All about the individual, and their skill within a match. And yes, processing information is a part of that, but the bigger part of killer comes from on the fly decisions and skill in a chase.
  • 20+ unique playstyles BEFORE you add perks, or add-ons.
  • ONE over-arching objective with secondary objective: Kill all survivors (eventually!) and protect generators (secondary, but to me more important than soooo many other killers think)


Now you combine these two together, and the difficulty in balancing is already apparent. You have two different games, trying to complete against each other to complete totally different objectives within a match. This is part of why my mentality as killer is NOT to just kill survivors, but to STOP THEM from doing theirs.

You then also have the division of the Killer playerbase with having so many unique killers and their own set of problems. Even in the example of the "Stealth" killer family, you have people arguing that Ghostface is a better version of Pig, and that Wraith is possibly the worst killer in the game. THEN they go and argue with Survivors about which side has it worse.

Add the fact that there are people who either A) do not play the other side or B) may play a game for daily rituals but ultimately don't even care about them. This further divides the community and the game's direction because you now have people who argue against a side THEY DON'T EVEN PLAY.


This game isn't just Survivor vs. Killer. Or Community vs. Devs. It's Survivors vs. Trapper vs. Wraith vs. Hillbilly, ect. vs. Devs. And that's before we add the issue of ranks or time played.

bHVR are also just trying to keep the peace as we tear at each other's throats over issues that we ourselves have caused! "Second Chance Meta this", "Camping, Tunnelling and Slugging that". Guess what, both sides forced this upon each other. It's not the devs fault.


The sooner that we all just remember or realise that this is a game that very few of us are making a living off, and playing because we LIKE TO PLAY THE GAME, the better off and happier a community we will be.

Now, if you excuse me, I'm off to scream into the void for another 8 hours.


I'll see you in the Fog.

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Comments

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Well, you're going to get THAT issue when you add any sort of ranking system, but I feel like that point has been explained before for other people, and different titles.

    For me, the biggest issues this game will ever face is that Survivor and Killer are totally separate games. Yes, each rank does have it's own meta, and yes, everything will ultimately come as a singularity towards the same Nurse/Hag/Spirit builds against the same DS/UB/DH/BT Survivor builds to counter the more underhanded parts of higher rank killer playstyles. That though is an issue with having a ranking system, not the core design of the game.


    One thing that I do agree on though with balance, is not catering to the 1%. Blizzard doing that was the start of the downfall of Overwatch for me. Yes, I know that their player count is high right now, but there was a time where balance was basically thrown out a window because of Overwatch League, and largely still is. If anyone has reached red ranks, they go into one of two camps. Either "I must keep this rank" sweatlords, or "Now I can do WHATEVER I WANT!" players who are either casuals or content creators.

    There are so many divisions in this playerbase that we will never be happy.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    I get the point you're trying to make. Just a few nitpicks. Survivors aren't playing survival horror (game genre definition). Killer is kinda a hunter simulator. Not really... I think a closer game would be a horror themed cops and robbers with special rules. Killer are cops and survivor are robbers.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Well, I said "hunting simulator" because that's how I play killer, as someone who plays a lot of stealth killers.

    But the point is indeed that they are 2 separate games playing by completely separate rules, and comparing them for balance isn't possible on a fundamental level.

  • GoodLookinCookinGoodLookinCookin Member Posts: 341

    This is why they need to do a health chapter or add some new objectives or mechanics to mix up the game into something that is more manageable and fun.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    I think it boils down to the fact that people should stop whining and whinging. They should play the game or find another one if they are really that unhappy with this one. Personally, I think they are full of it. If I was unhappy, I'd be gone. There are so many games out there today that it is crazy to spend long hours playing something you seem to spend an equal amount of time complaining about.

    The problem is this Forum and the after game chatter skews the perspective and makes it seem like everyone is unhappy. I don't think so. I think a vocal, trollish minority is giving us a fun-house mirror view of things. I play with people every day and MOST of my games end with GG or something more. The number of salty types has continued to diminish in my after game. The worst people I see now are here on the forum. Endless complaints. The Blight has been out a day or so and we have so many people saying what is wrong with him. I'm like, seriously? Why don't you guys actually try him out for a month before you opine in with your judgement (that we didn't ask for).

    I don't blame Killers or Survivors for playing the game. I certainly don't spend my time lamenting the DEV. I almost think they would be better off closing this Forum entirely. I'm not sure it serves any positive purpose whatsoever.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Wrong thread for that discussion.

    SWF has absolutely nothing to do with the point I'm making here.

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    And this game is not made to be balanced as seen with their 3 latest killers everyones complaining about 2 of them but the killer is supposed to be the power role not a toy that yout can hamster around

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 2,743

    @Terro I would've said Hide and Seek... LOL

    @PigMainClaudette I do agree with what you've said... But offer a perspective (that you have probably thought of)

    Think of this game in more ways- The first 2 are what you have said before (I worded it my way)

    1) Survival Horror: Survivors either play like a team or selfishly (for their survival) to complete 2 Objectives ( and 1 if the team fail or a survivor is alone)- 5 gens and 1-2 gates... and resource management

    2) Hunting Sim- Killer tracking survivors movements and patterns to get close

    3) Hide and Seek- The chase up to the down/ getting away and evading the killer

    4) RTS (Real Time Strategy): The perks, items, addons, and offerings are a basic plan but decisions made through out the match can change the outcome

    5) [this one might be hard to agree with but...] RPG (Role-Playing Game): Want to be a healer bring a medkit... gen jockey bring a toolbox... Want to be aggressive bring a flashlight... Want to be a "leader" bring a map... Want to be a "lifesaver" bring a key

    Want to be Mickey play The Shape... Want to throw hatches play Huntress... Want to be a bounty Hunter from the west play The Deathslinger

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    An you NOT turn this into another "them vs. us" thread? It is that EXACT mentality that I am saying is driving this community apart.

  • YehBoiGokuYehBoiGoku Member Posts: 248

    I was sitting here wondering why this forum post hasn't blown up yet.

  • CaptainCastleCaptainCastle Member Posts: 537

    I think this is pretty fair across the board. The not a job stuff is on point too. Good post op.

  • YehBoiGokuYehBoiGoku Member Posts: 248

    Very good topic, and very well said

    I was also wondering if you have a yt or a twitch because you did mention content. If you don't well that sucks, but I think you have huge potential.

    I never really thought of it as two separate games. Pretty cool perspective on the game.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I do stream occasionally on Twitch under the name midknightreaper1, but I do need to edit it to be capitalised.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Sweet. I won't be on for a while though, because work is really backed up and I'm here generally quite late. Tired Reaper isn't as entertaining as Gaming Reaper.

    When I do come back, though, I will be doing a blind run of Destroy All Humans! remake. I have not played the game in 10 years, so I will be going off sheer memory alone.

  • ZaKzanZaKzan Member Posts: 550

    Reduce map size, increase pallet spawns, reduce pallet strength making most pallets unsafe. These three changes would vastly increase the amount of skill that goes into a particular loop and counterplaying what the survivor / killer does.

    Quite a few killers would need rebalanced, and probably all the meta perks. Gen times would probably need reduced too, but this would result in a much fairer game. Maybe not completely balanced, but it would increase the amount of situations where the skill of the survivor / killer plays a pivotal role in whether the chase continues or ends at a specific pallet loop.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Point is though that we will NEVER achieve a state if balance. Yeah, those changes might help, even if they are all killer-sided.

    Outside of red-ranks and SWF hit-squads, these issues just aren't apparent or outright non-existent.

  • Jill10230Jill10230 Member Posts: 475
    edited September 2020

    There is no listening, the developers hear nothing, so for me they are responsible !


    A proof ? Spine chill, Nurse, Decisive, Loop.. it's a horror game on paper but in the end it's just a rodeo game, no fear or challenge, just a bit of adrenaline because as a survivor I know that killers are nervous, so I know I win and I almost always win (the door or hatch). Such a large map also plays an important role in my survival. And the only killers I fear are Billy and Bubba...


    A horror game is when you fear the killer, you're not going to start a bodyblock ... you fear the killer in a horror game, that's the basis of horror... No in fact here you are the survivor and the killer fear of you....


    Look for the mistake !🤗

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    NO SINGLE PARTY IS TO BLAME. The simple concept of how DbD is designed to be impossible to balance!

    As for the topic of "horror" in DbD, I have covered it in another thread that literally nobody read.

  • Jill10230Jill10230 Member Posts: 475

    "The simple concept of how DbD is designed to be impossible to balance !"


    Remove all perks from the game and you will get a balanced DBD.🤔

  • GrimmReaperGrimmReaper Member Posts: 159

    You know....that could actually work. But the game wouldn't be as fun so it's a matter of taking away fun for more balance. Tricky one.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Sure! Let's also remove the unique killer powers while we're at it! Oh, wait. Someone will complain about map balance.

  • Jill10230Jill10230 Member Posts: 475

    I also like perks but the game is actually horrible for the killer (for me)...


    I'm talking about the perks, not power.


    Without perks the game is balanced for all !


    And yes, the maps (like Yamaoka) are literally unbalanced.. beautiful but not balanced. Did you notice the distance of the generators ?🤣

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Killers are at war with each other about their own powers and how good they are.

    Survivors complain about killer powers.

    There is no end to it.

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Typo? Can or an and are you mad? Im agreeing with you

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Your comment came across as a "killers are weak and bullied" line. Or at least the last sentence did.

    I've had threads derailed because people can't stay on topic and I've actually had kne shut down because of it. That and the last few days have been frustrating.

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