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Possible "Fix" For EVERY Killer in the Game

PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842
edited September 2020 in General Discussions

Lately there has been a lot of talk around balance....... again......... now that the Blight is out. So, excluding him as I have been positively slammed with work, and hearing about the miscellaneous bugs that this patch has brought, I haven't played as or against him YET, therefore he will be excluded from this.

My rules are simple: one small, simple change that will help the balance of the game at large. No major re-works or anything like that. Just something to even the playing field a bit more. Some will be nerfs, but majority will be buffs.


Trapper - All traps now start in the active/open position at the start of the trial.

Wraith - Increase the action speed while cloaked. This is kicking generators, vaulting and breaking pallets. Reducing the shimmer on his cloaked mode would also help.

Hillbilly - Make Infectious Fright not work with the chainsaw.

Hag - MINIMUM distance from hooks for Phantasms. If you're a good enough Hag, you don't need traps at their feet.

Nurse - Bug fixes, but other than that she's fine.

Myers - Change the effect of Judith's Tombstone and Tombstone Piece to have a stalking requirement on the targeted survivor.

Doctor - Frame rate issues that people mention.

Huntress - Hitboxes. I don't know if it's latency or actual problems with the power, but I have had so many questionable hits on both sides.

Cannibal - No matter how I look at it, there is no redeeming Bubba for me. The only bit about him that I remotely like is that his power is an AoE attack, but it's tied to an instant-down chainsaw and it is literally all he has.

Nightmare - Change it so that Freddy's Dream World Lullaby counts as a Terror Radius for perks like Borrowed Time.

Pig - Add-on pass to re-work half of them. A huge amount are either useless at best to detrimental in some cases. That and some stealth boosts in terms of speed would be also very welcome. Just a slightly faster movement speed in crouch. Nothing major.

Clown - Make his gas even scarier. More distortion in the survivor vision and maybe a slightly larger area of effect and duration.

Spirit - Remove her ability to hear survivors. She removes too much information for survivors currently while retaining way too much information comparatively for herself. By removing her ability to hear survivors, it will tone back her power greatly while not changing anything mechanically about her. If anyone mentions Stridor, all I can say is "Swap it for Bloodhound if you're THAT concerned or dedicated....."

  • EDIT: I forgot that Spirit cannot see blood without Father's Glasses, so swap sound for blood and change Glasses to give back sound.

Legion - Shorter stun out of Feral Frenzy for stabbing a survivor with the Deep Wound status effect.

Plague - Slightly increased duration in how long the vomit effect sticks to objects with slightly less particle effects.

Ghostface - Slightly increase the rate of power recovery. Not to the level of one of his add-ons, but just enough to be noticeable.

Demogorgon - Cut half the screams, or cap the volume/distance. It's just too loud as of current to actually keep anyone to actually be concerned. When I go up against a Demo and hear someone else getting chased, I know that I have all the time and space I need to do that generator.

Oni - Make Infectious Fright no longer work with the Kanabo.

Deathslinger - Either make his shot a hit-scan or slow it down to be a projectile that people can actually lead with. The awkward middle ground it occupies is very hard to get used to.

Executioner - Slightly increase the speed to activate Punishment of the Damned.


No, I am not a balance expert. Yes, Hillbilly and Oni have a change based around a perk. No, this won't fix other issues like map size or generator speeds. Yes, I do play killer. I'm a console player, specifically Xbox, so some of these changes might seem weird because of that to any PC players. No, I couldn't give less of a damn if Hag is a "defensive" killer, stop using your traps to camp and play the game normally like everyone else. I am currently in red ranks on survivor on my main account, and while time has sent me back to brown for killer due to neglect and WORK, I have still held my own against red ranked survivors including on stream.

No, I haven't played some of these killers, but I have versed them more than enough while others I wish I versed more. I have not played Hag, Cannibal, Clown, Plague or Demogorgon.

I haven't given specific numbers for boosts because, like I said, I am not a balance expert. They are also just ideas that I have come up with that could possibly switch up the slightly stale meta we find ourselves in.


If you have any improvements on these changes, then let me know.

Think that I'm an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about? Make your own thread and let's see you come up with something better. I think that the fact that majority of these are buffs is certainly more than some people on these forums would give you.

Post edited by PigMainClaudette on
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Comments

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,401

    I'd actually offer some (a lot) more fixes for Executioner (as a PH main myself).

    • The cages are sent to random locations.
    • The Executioner is not notified of the location when a survivor is rescued from a cage.
    • The auras of survivors in cages cannot be revealed to The Executioner.
    • Punishment Of The Damned (POTD) now applies Torment on a successful hit.
    • Gain free movement when using Rights of Judgement (ROJ).
    • Reduce cooldown of a successful POTD shot by 1 second (to 3 seconds).
    • Reduce the detonation delay of POTD.
    • Increase the width and range of POTD.
    • Increase the duration of exiting ROJ to 1.5 seconds.
    • Increase the slowdown of exiting ROJ to 77% speed.

    Honestly, I feel like these would make him better and more rewarding to play whilst also fixing many of the common issues with him.

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    Just 2 things I noticed

    Spirit- you said remove ability to hear survivors and use bloodhound? Would that mean you're also giving her the ability to see blood while in power? I dont play spirit so correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost certain she can't see blood.

    Deathslinger- making it hitscan would be terribly overpowed, while making it a slower projectile would just give him another way he's worse than huntress.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I've been deleted by those add-ons when the Myers only had enough stalk from me to actually pop EWIII, then kill me instantly. They are just super frustrating add-ons to go against since MY input/ability has no determining factor on the add-on killing me.

    That and I had no other ideas for Myers.

    I don't mind most of these changes, and I would say definitely add the wider PotD and the shorter delay. While all of those changes do seem worth it, I'm trying to keep it small for now. Especially since this is for every killer.

  • CalamityJaneCalamityJane Member Posts: 487

    That ONLY affects his mori add ons and only makes it so that you can't mori someone because their ######### teammate fed you stalk. That's a pretty minor and fair change.

    For Executioner I'd like to see a longer delay between stopping his power and swinging M1. It's pretty unfair that you can have your cake and eat it too; either you jump the window/drop the pallet and take the ranged hit, or try to fake it and instantly take the M1. I'd also like cages to spawn right where the survivor is downed. Now that they can't be camped sending them as far away as possible only serves to lose him all map pressure when they're saved instantly.

    Big fan of making Infectious Fright on basic attacks like literally every other perk. If it needs buffs after that, fine, but as it is 90% of the time it's used is to chain instadowns and slug which is disgustingly unfun.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,401

    Oh yeah, keeping it smaller is fair enough, I just wanted to go on about everything I could think about changing him.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    It's been a while since I have played Spirit, but I'm sure that you can see blood. I could be wrong.

    Basically take away her ability to hear survivors while phasing. It's the best solution that I can come up with.


    As for Deathslinger, I feel that he fits a different niche to Huntress. Huntress is an actually ranged killer while Deathslinger is more about the 1v1, and actually has a stealth element being a 24m Terror Radius killer.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 10,664

    The Myers Change is not much of an issue, unless you are using the Tombstone Piece on a regular Basis (the normal Tombstone is bad anyway). But it would prevent situations where one Potato feeds him all the Evil and the guy who has not seen Myers tne entire game is instantly dead without any fault on their side.


    @Topic:

    I dont really like the Trapper-One. It would not really change anything, because Traps often enough spawn in places where nobody would step into them (sure, there are exceptions, but a normal Survivor would not step into an open Trap). Also, for me personally, I prefer to know which Traps I set and which Traps where set randomly. I would rather increase the carrying capacity.

    Regarding Oni and Billy with Infectious Fright, I would rather do some changes to IF.

    Clown-->I agree that his Gas could get some tuning. But the problem I have with Clowns ability is that it might become too oppressive when going into one direction. I dont think that you can tweak Clown just with one little thing (except for making him a little bit better like they did in one of the recent patches), because he would either still be weak or too oppressive with his ability.

    Legion-->It should be a shorter stun in General. Also it would be great if the Pins would work on the first Frenzy Hit.

    Regarding Plague-->I dont know how much that would actually change. I am not an expert on Plague, I find her rather boring to play, but her Main issue is that her Corrupt Purge is so strong and on the other hand in so much control of the Survivors AND her Add Ons suffer from this. Corrupt Purge Add Ons have almost no effect when she does not get Corrupt Purge and Vile Purge Add Ons lose their effect once everyone is broken.

    Changing how long Objects stay infected would not really change much for Plague IMO. It could work with Ruin or Regressing Gens in general, but would also not matter if every Survivor is already sick.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Well, trap locations can be changed. At the start of the game, Trapper has nothing going for him, so I thought that this change could help alleviate some of that early game struggle for him.

    Yes, my change for Billy and Oni is entirely to do with Infectious Fright, as it is the problem that I currently see with those killers. Not the killers themselves.

    Clown only has the chase, and for some killers, I would like to see that become a more prominent feature about him. Similar to how Deathslinger feels oppressive in a chase.

    Legion is hampered hugely by those stuns, but I feel like making the extra stab one shorter would encourage a more aggressive style of play with the Legion, rather than just boosting them.


    No clue about Plague though. Thought that trying to use her power for more map control seems like a better way to focus her.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295
    edited September 2020

    for everyone saying they get tier 3 popped than instantly deleted, thats your teams fault, not the add on and not the killer. put myers against any compentent team that knows how to starve him and he will get 0 to 1k. Like i said he is already pretty niche nerfing one of his stronger add ons with no compensation just puts him into the unplayable tier. and OP, if you have no ideas for myers why are you commenting on him. No offense intended, but thats like a rank 20 telling bhvr that botany is op because it counters sloppy. Really i do say his tombstone needs to be looked at, but if you are going to nerf one part of him you need to buff the others. Only time that rule doesn't apply is when the killer is op, which he isn't. also btw if you find out he has tombstone(his stance is different) then hop into a locker. this rule is for when your and your team failed to keep him in ew2 and he either uses it or you look at his stance. Another tell-tale sign is when he is in attacking distance but isn't lunging. that could be a sign that he has tombstone.

  • GoodJobGuys92GoodJobGuys92 Member Posts: 47

    Might as well delete spirit then, because I'm pretty sure you need the ultra rare add on to see blood.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Please refer to the last line of the post if that is how you wish to conduct yourself here.

  • Jill10230Jill10230 Member Posts: 475

    Gorgon needs a big buff for the portal, and the Trapper needs 2 traps by default, maybe even blacken the traps..

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    On the deathslinger point yes they fill different niches, but they are the most comparable to each other that I can think of, and the only things he has over her are:

    No Lullaby, Lack of Charge Time, Can land shots through stuff Huntress cannot. Can reload anywhere.

    While what she has over him is:

    No maximum range, Doesnt need to reload after every shot, doesnt need to reel in the survivor, larger hitbox makes shots easier to hit, every shot landed does a health state of damage

    Making it so he has a slower projectile than huntress while already huntress is already a better killer in most situations, just doesnt sit right with me.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    My change is simply so that I am not removed from the game, completely deranked and deeply frustrated because my TEAM can't play the game in the slightest. It is simply to remove an element of frustration that the add-on brings. Other than being the only killer to literally kill off survivors without perks or Moris, I really like Myers and have a lot of fun playing him, despite my deep-seeded hatred for instant downs.

    The only other thing that I can think of that could possibly help with Myers is to slightly increase his Tier-I movement speed or something to do with his Stalking mechanic.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    also i just read spirits nerf? tf man. Thats literally her entire power. what you just did is nerf her to an m1 killer with good mobility. which is weak. All she needs is a sound queue when she phases and she moves grass and corn when she phases

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Fine. Swap sound for blood. I generally only run brown or yellow add-ons for my killers, if I even decide to run them at all.

    Just take away her ability to hear survivors because it is just too strong as it stands.


    And again, last paragraph if you don't like what I've come up with.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    my point isn't to saying tombstone is fine, its to say nerfing without compensation on a weak killer is ######### up. Especially since you should know how it feels(the dozens of pig nerfs). Tombstone is balanced against a decent team and op against a ######### team. but you shouldn't balance the game over the lower 50% percent

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Spirit strips away too much information from survivors, and loses next to nothing herself. You still have your mindgames as her.

    If she was on an even playing field, then nobody would be complaining now, would they?

  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 557

    I know Ollie already mentioned this, but Spirit can't see Blood while phasing unless she's using an Ultra-Rare add-on. She's entirely sound and scratch mark dependent. (I know there's a bit of a hit box thing too, but it's super hard to notice unless you've played a ton of Spirit imho.) I think the only change Spirit really needs is to the phase start itself- I've always argued for a Phase start animation for Survivors to see. I don't feel like it takes anything really away from her (because man, I don't want to see her get gutted...).


    Trapper- I think he should just have one of his bags as base-kit. The fact that he constantly has to waste an add-on slot for a bag to ensure he can get value out of his traps is pretty bad. This would also open up more ways for Trapper to actually be able to utilize other add-on combinations without having to worry about bags.

    Wraith- Honestly, I just want a Windstorm add-on to be base kit, for the same reason as Trapper above. It feels like you constantly should be running Windstorm if you want to get good value out of Wraith. Making it base kit would just increase the amount of options he had for other add-on combinations.

    Hillbilly- I think he's great as-is.

    Hag- I personally think Hag is fine as-is. You can counter traps as a Survivor, especially ones under hook. I think if anything should be changed about her, it's Rusty Shackles- that add-on is pretty nasty to play against. Nothing else really needs to be touch imho.

    Nurse- I will forever say that I miss old base-kit Nurse. I honestly still haven't gotten over her rework.

    Myers- ...Gotta disagree here. As someone who's played a lot of Myers, I would usually only use Tombstones on players that were already fully stalked, since they had less value to me. If anything, he needs to be able to stalk a bit faster at base, or be able to reset the stalk amount on Survivors. Currently, his power destroys his early game with trying to get out of Tier 1, but can also be entirely useless in late game thanks to Survivors being dry from Stalk. Maybe something along the lines of 'after all survivors have been fully stalked, everyone gets reset back to half'? Something to give him the same potential as a killer like Oni.

    Doctor- Agreed. I'm also excited for this boi to get a graphics update- his shock hand honestly looks like something straight out of the first Bioshock game to me lol.

    Huntress- Also agreed, but people have been complaining about hitboxes in this game for a while. I'm hoping the better hit detection system will help this. I'm also excited for her add-on rework- I would hope that they at least make it so Iridescent Head doesn't stack with Infantry Belt.

    Bubba- I think the boi is pretty good in his current state honestly. The Devs did a good job with his re-work.

    Nightmare- Honestly, I just want his lunge animation changed a bit. I think he's the one killer where when I'm playing against him, I'm constantly questioning whether he actually should have hit me or not because of his lunge.

    Pig- A stereotypical request, but man I want Ruleset No. 2 to be base kit with some add-on reworks. I just think it would help increase her pressure enough to help her really get the ball rolling to solidify her a bit better as a mid-tier killer. Currently she just sits as a 'Jack of all trades, master of none', where she just gets pushed around way too easily.

    Clown- Honestly, I've never played Clown. So I'm not in a good position to say what he should or should not have changed about him. I'll leave that to people who actually play him.

    Spirit- (See my first paragraph.)

    Ghostface- Honestly, I just want a more consistent detection system (since his current one is very inconsistent on both sides), and add-on reworks.

    Demogorgan- Add-on reworks. His best add-on is a brown one. That's depressing.

    Oni- I don't mind Infectious working with the Kanabo. I don't think he should get nerfed or buffed.

    Deathslinger- Same with Oni. I don't think either of them are particularly fun to play as or against, but I don't think their kits should be entirely destroyed either just to make them more 'fun'- and I'm not really sure of any way their kits could be changed to make them more fun to play against without just that happening.

    PH- I haven't played as or against him enough to really give a good idea on what I think should be done to him.

    Just my thoughts. Any killer not listed are ones I agree with you on and had nothing more to say.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I've said before with RS.2 to the point that it should be given as an intro message to new forums users to never make it base kit.

    It forces survivors towards generators, which is the exact opposite of what you want as a Pig. Making more than 10 of her add-ons remotely viable would do leagues for her.


    I did also cover it with previous people pointing it out, but I'd be happy to trade blood for sound and make Father's Glasses give her sound back.

  • OllieHellhunterOllieHellhunter Member Posts: 669

    To be honest I didnt know she even had an add on to see blood, I guess most I run into just dont use that, thanks for clarifying.

    With Oni I 100% agree that he's not fun from either perspective while being in a pretty good place balance wise

    Deathslinger however is probably the killer I enjoy most from both perspectives, so I guess this is where we disagree.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    Even playing field? what you are doing is nerfing her to the ground. What i proposed gives survivors counter play and tells them she is phasing. It should be the default noise you hear while outside the terror radius but everyone can hear it no matter what. and the grass thing makes it where if she phases over grass she loses her element of suprise. maybe make her phase ability where she pops in and out of view every 1.5 seconds when she phases. this would make her balanced. What you proposed is a gut to her power and makes her guess, which is exactly why survivors don't like her. You want her to also have to guess while i made it where no one has to guess. Do you understand

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I edited my suggestion to make blood visible, allowing for new counterplay there. It is also not fair that ONE side has to play the guessing game. Stripping one side of all information is in no way remotely close to balanced, and my proposed change does more for that than any other suggestion I have seen. Especially since it also cuts down on the use of 3rd party modifications, such as audio mixers, to advantage those with access to them.

    This change is not just about simple gameplay. It's focusing in on a broad issue with the killer.


    I understand full well what you're suggesting, but I have a feeling that you do not completely understand what I am saying.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    You are making her power useless unless the person is injured, congrats i guess. What im saying is give both sides indicators of what the other is doing, survivors get a noise notification and they also get a visual one when she passes through grass and corn, spirit gets scratch marks and sounds, see what i mean. Both sides get indicators. what you made is a killer who doesn't know where survivor are at all if they aren't injured or running and survivors get nothing to see if she is phasing or not, creating a guessing game between both sides. which is exactly what yall complained about. not having any indicator that she's coming. you do not understand my point.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    I don't apparently understand your point because it appears to be so vague. And just repeating the line "I want her power gutted" is both INACCURATE and will not help convince me of anything otherwise. If anything, it will just strengthen my resolve against your argument.

    What we are also arguing is changing Spirit's power in two different directions. Mine is about taking away the information for her that SHE denies, while you are making a case for giving survivors information back. Both are completely valid sides to take, and I do respect the idea of that, but I do also have issues with adding grass/corn movement while we still have maps like Hawkin's Laboratory and the Gideon Meat Plant.

    Like I also mentioned with her audio issues is that there are 3rd party ways to boost the effectiveness of her power. Considering how other killers feel about Discord or something like Xbox Party Chat, I think that it's only fair that we not create a double-standard and call out killers using 3rd party tools for their own gains as well.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    so then we both understand the other's points. You want no info on either side, while i want info for both sides. I still disagree with it because it sounds like on paper more of a flat nerf than a rework.

  • PigMainClaudettePigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Well, that is kind of the point. This entire thread is about "small" changes that can EVEN the playing field for all killers, so that there is more balance. Even if I did just write a whole thread about how this game will never be in a true state of balance.

    I did also say that these are purely ideas and that I am not a balancing expert in the slightest. I just think that a power about denying information should have a drawback similar to what it's core design is. I can liken this to my martial arts and the concept of the "push and pull".


    My true goal here is to try and abolish the "bandwagoner" killer mentality and give a lot of the killers some attention that the "top 5" tend to absorb. I think that everyone can agree that there has been an influx of Spirit players since Billy had his changes. If we have more patches like this to change the balance of power, rather than one massive re-work to a single killer, then bandwagoners would lessen and I personally think that the overall state of the game would improve. More people would play what they enjoy, and most of the issues like stale killer and perk metas would lessen over time. They will never disappear because there will always be people who need those 4k's every game, or those that will survive no matter what, but if we can lessen that as much as possible, I call that a win.

  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 557

    Honestly, I would find Deathslinger more fun to play against, but I think I just have bad luck against them- a lot of them time, when I get them, they do the good ole' 'Proxy camp at 5 gens and tunnel off hook'. Honestly, if it wasn't for that, I don't think it would have left such a foul taste in my mouth- because I do have an alright time playing against them when they don't do that. It's just that the Slingers I face that don't do that are either new Slingers, or very few and far between. So it probably is just me being unlucky.

    I mean, I've seen that argument a lot- I'm not entirely new to the community. I just never joined the forums before now lol. Personally I just want RS.2 to be basekit to help increase effectiveness of RBT. Survivors being able to pop them off before they have even activated kinda takes away the effectiveness of a lot of (what are at least my personal favourite) add-ons to run on her. If the Survivor doesn't get their helmet off in time and dies, it's one less survivor you have to worry about. More pressure for you, and with another gen going by, that's more pressure as well.

    I'd at the very least like to see what it would be like- even if it was just a PTB exploring the idea, and not fully implemented. I do agree that the add-ons need reworked though.

  • hillbillyclaudmain69hillbillyclaudmain69 Member Posts: 1,528

    Actually, if his hand is open, that means he can mori you. If you jump in a locker or on a gen when hes tier 3 he can't mori you.

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