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Why are we concerned about the other side having fun?

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  • MajoraMajora Member Posts: 193

    Survivors don't care if the killer has fun so killers shouldn't care either. This is why I slug camp and tunnel.


    I only care about winning. And if they are toxic I'll bleed them out and tbag them and beat them on hook. Take the survivor rulebook and burn it.

  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 158

    Lol sorry m8, but if you want me to treat the game as an actual Competitive Game, there needs to be changes first.

    As a very specific example that I love to use here, the big one is that the game doesn't really have a strict win condition. If you want to see this game as competitive, it needs to have a strict win condition. While I know this is an asymmetrical game, for example, if I play a game of Overwatch, when I get to the end screen, I get a definitive win or loss.

    Don't get me wrong, there are still win conditions in Dead by Daylight. Obviously, survivors and killers have objectives for a reason. However, when you get to the end game screen, the best we get is a scoring system made up by the Devs, who say themselves don't actually represent your skill. So what are we really counting as a win? The game's system which the Devs stated aren't good? Escapes to death? Because right now, players can pretty much choose their win condition, as a lot of it is just what the player believe they need to do to win. If that means sacrificing themselves to the killer, or protecting that sweet, sweet basement chest, then that's their win condition. Personally, I don't mind that as a player. I think it's fun like that. But the game isn't competitive. Sure, there's a competitive scene- but let's also remember that a lot of Tournaments for this game have different point systems and such because no one can agree with what the win conditions are for either side.

    Honestly, I don't think the game should be considered competitive in the same vain as CS:GO, OW, or even SSBU. At the very least, not without some major changes for both killer and survivor- or a dedicated 'ranked' and 'casual' modes.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 2,400

    Here is the rub, I don't care how you treat the game for YOURSELF. I have no expectations of what you want from the game or how you choose to play it. Just because I'm competitive, doesn't mean I expect you to play my way. The only thing I ask is please don't grief, shame, or spend a lot of time trying to make me play YOUR way. It isn't going to happen anyway, so it is a waste of your time (and mine). You do you; I'll do me. I will always be polite pre-game and post game. I will do my best to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat. During the match, I'm going to play to win. I won't cheat, but I will avail myself of any tool in the tool box if I need it. I won't begrudge you yours either. You might curb-stomp me and I'm going to give you a GG. I will hopefully learn something from it.

  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 158

    I mean, I'm fine with that. I never grief or shame anyone or make them play my way. Worst I'll do is hit you with a 'ggwp', and if it was like... a Forever Freddy with a Game offering, then I'll hit you with the 'man that was boring' after the gg. I don't mind people seeing this as a competitive game- I just think that not enough people realize that not everyone plays like that, and the system in place now really doesn't help things, since everyone plays together in the same queue- no matter how they see the game.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 2,400

    And this is completely fair. I realize it. I also play Warhammer and Warmachine/Hordes tabletop. Some people are VERY competitive in those games, while others see them merely as beer and pretzel games. I don't begrudge the people who aren't as hardcore as me about them. I just don't want want to hear any whining from them when they choose to play less than their best. That isn't my fault, nor is it my job to tone down my play because they chose to do so with their own.

    I just see far too much demonizing of Players for merely playing the game. I consider that passing the buck, blaming one's own choices on other people. It is the easy way out. Now, all that being said, do I sometimes take my foot off the accelerator when I realize I'm in with people I completely dominate? Yeah, I do. If I'm playing late night and I end up with Newbies because there aren't enough people to match me with those on my level, there isn't much point in bulldozing them. I do "play soft" now and then, but I rarely tell them that. Nobody wants Pity. I just slow down and let them learn and earn a few extra points out of a longer game.

    I don't tell people that often because I don't want it to be expected. If you feed the bears they get a taste for it. I just play at the level they SHOULD be facing. That is my charity and I keep it to myself.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 17,492
    edited September 2020

    You shouldn't be concerned, but neither should you go out of your way to make other players miserable. That last part is something many people have trouble understanding.

    For those who are just playing "for fun", I say this: if you're not playing to win, you shouldn't complain if you lose. I know I don't.

  • bobcat946732bobcat946732 Member Posts: 816
    edited September 2020

    It's DBD Etiquette, nothing more and nothing less. Plenty of other games have their own community etiquette and DBD is no different in that respect. Whether you follow these community rules or not is up to you and while a lot of people use "fun" as the excuse for their anger, it's more just them being mad you broke said rules. After all, I can still have fun in matches I got facecamped but I'm still annoyed I was facecamped because it broke the rules of etiquette.

    It's really up to each person at the end of the day. To use another games example; in Dark Souls do you bow before a duel and use no estus or do you use every available resource in a gank squad to make your opponent know pain? Same here. Face camp, tunnel, first hook mori, OoO, small PP build, the list goes on. Do you use everything available or do you follow etiquette?

    I keep seeing the f-word brought up a lot but I think as a community we should start referring to it only as DBD etiquette. Fun is such a silly word to bring up in things like these since it's so subjective in the first place. It's much easier to refer to this problem as community etiquette and debate over that instead of how much potential fun a person is having because you stood next to them for a second too long or god forbid you pushed the ctrl key.

  • AetherBytesAetherBytes Member Posts: 1,497

    The flaw with this philosophy is that in fortnite and CoD, everyone is equal. They have the same tools, the same luck, and the same mechanics (overwatch is unbalanced as [BAD WORD] though).

    Dead by Daylight asymmetrical. It's 1v4, and both sides play a completely different game.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 2,400
    edited September 2020

    I can ALMOST get fully behind this post, except that it isn't even Etiquette yet. An etiquette is a guide of behavior, a moray if you will, that is agreed upon by the MAJORITY of a community or population. I don't think we have even reached a point of agreement over which (if any) behaviors are expected or not. I know a LOT of Survivors want to author the Book of Rules for Killers that Samination makes fun of, but let's be honest here, there is no etiquette yet, none. I don't think there ever will be either beyond DON'T CHEAT.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,801

    Well i don't put their needs above mine, but i prefer to not be a dick, cause i need players to play this game.

    And i may only "scare" away a few if i was being a dick, but i simply don't want to contribute.

  • BwstedBwsted Member Posts: 540

    Because this is an asymmetrical game, contrary to the other ones in your example. They don't care about the other side having fun, because the 'other side' is essentially in the same shoes. Their players can be good or bad at the game, but the potential for having fun is the same for all players, they're all on equal ground, regardless of which team they are in a match.

    In DbD, you can have fun at the expense of the other side due to imbalances. Think of things like depip squads, Haddonfield, moris, Bubba facecamping, etc. It's all stuff that has the potential to turn the game into a pseudo-pve, where the disadvantaged side becomes a bot surrogate.

  • NobsydeNobsyde Member Posts: 1,154
    edited September 2020

    I'll tell you what happened to me my last two games:

    I have a survivor on hook. They save her, but for some reason I find her running towards a god pallet inside the Badham main building. She's camping the pallet but I down her because I lagged (she didn't even throw the pallet, she obviously didn't see me at all).

    I say "well, this is unfair, I'll leave her be and get somebody else".

    The game and the gen rush goes on, that extra pressure would have made all of the difference but whatever, that was my decision. Her decision, though, was to tbag me at the exit gate.


    Next game, I down a survivor.

    They rescue her, but she fails in running away. I down her again, and patrol the gens around her before picking her up again.

    One person comes for the rescue, but I have nurse's calling and immediately go back, down her again and this time I can hook her.

    I go away, but as soon as she's unhooked I find her once more. She's dead. Less than 5k points for her.

    Eventually I kill everybody.


    So. Competitively speaking, the latter game was the right way to go: maximally optimised my chances to win. Did the girl have fun? I'm sure she didn't. Should I care? Yes, because I know how it feels to be on the other end.


    If you don't empathise with this there might be two reasons:

    one, you think (as you do) that DbD is a predominantly competitive game. It is not, though - it is too unbalanced, too buggy, too unfair with the matchmaking to be considered a strictly competitive game. DbD is a hardcore party game.

    two, you are too self-centric.


    Or both, of course.

  • bobcat946732bobcat946732 Member Posts: 816

    You're not wrong and that's exactly why I think etiquette should be brought up more often in debates instead of fun. At least with debating etiquette we'd have chance of progress even if it's minimal. Hell, even though the community would never completely agree on a common etiquette I think you'd see a lot better discussions then ones that bring up fun as the main topic.

    IDK, it's just became a pet peeve of mine to see people trying to debate "fun" in some of these threads. Fun is important, don't get me wrong but trying to debate it just seems pointless to me.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 2,400
    edited September 2020

    Agreed and this is a VERY good point. "Fun" is a totally subjective in nature. Etiquette, at least, has a framework, something we can work towards or agree is impossible. Either way, it is a better terminology.

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