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Thoughts on Exhaustion perk balance

Alphasoul05Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 403
edited September 2020 in General Discussions

I see a lot of people complain about many things, but seldom to people mention just how strong exhaustion perks are. You'll find the majority of top streamers will tell you just how busted they are, but I figure I'd give a little introduction as to why people believe so.

Let's take a look at Sprint Burst. If you don't have SB and you are on a generator, maybe the killer has BBQ and you don't want to be found, so you go in a locker. Maybe you plan your route and the pallet you'll run to. You'll do this early when you spot the killer in the distance, or your SWF calls it out, or even if you hear their heartbeat. It'll probably be enough time. What SB does is it allows you to play greedy, and it rewards you for doing so. You don't have to be afraid of anything whatsoever, you don't have to worry about your positioning, you simply sit on a generator until the killer is in your face and SB to safety.

Let's take a look at Dead Hard. Dead Hard is the worst offender here because it, too, rewards you for playing greedy. Play greedy at a pallet, get another loop. Make a mistake at a wall or loop, Dead Hard to make the killer lose any reward for you playing it wrong. This does not sound like much to the average player, but what would have been a down now results in another loop, and if it's a safe pallet? They get to another loop, and add more time. Time lost, pressure lost. Caught out of position? You can also use it for distance, which rather than being punished for being out of position or otherwise not making a loop, you now make it. You were rewarded for playing greedy, or for playing poorly because you knew you had the comfort of a perk. It also forces the killer to wait for their swings, and again, it's a small thing, but the fact a killer has to hump your butt and wait for you to use it, wasting time, is just ridiculous. This is also completely ignoring killers that get punished for using their power by a simple push of the E button. This is even worse for some killers like Nurse or Blight, where they can use a lot of skill or effort for a hit and have it all outdone by this perk, which forces a power CD and a stun on them.

Only perks like, say, Head On, or maybe even Balanced Landing, I would say are "okay". Balanced Landing make you plan your route, sometimes you need to take a hit or move along the map to take advantage of it, it rewards you for your efforts, even it may not be half as rewarding for the effort required as the other mentioned perks.

These perks have 40 second cooldowns, of course it won't always be so as you'll often be running, but all 4 survivors can have it an get multiple uses out of it per game. I do not see how anyone can not think these perks are absolutely broken, but like many things in this game I think people just accept they'll never be changed.

Comments

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    I ain’t even that fussed about DS when I play killer. You can play around it. Exhaustion perks are the worst perks to go against imo

    Sprint Burst and hold W in a chase and you just got 20+ seconds of gen time for free, no skill required and no counterplay. Of course you probably already got your route planned and you’re gonna be holding W to the strongest loop on the map which is going to waste so much time against an M1 killer.

    Same for Dead Hard for distance. If you have an M1 killer chasing you and you know you’re going down at the window you tap E for distance and you make the window which are often quite strong and again you just gained a lot of free gen time for your team. No counterplay. Its funny Iike to play PyramidHead because he can actually deal with this with his ranged attack but then survivors start the tears about no counterplay.....yeah you didn’t have an issue when you did that to my Pig or Myers who had no counterplay to your DH for distance.

  • PipefishPipefish Member Posts: 314

    I mean exhaustion perks are annoying but they take some skill to use effectively. Chases would end to quickly without them which would lead to more second hand meta. I rather they nerf DS and Unbreakable as they reward bad plays more then anything.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    How exactly do they take skill?

    Sprint burst - hold run

    Lithe - Look for nearest window

    Balanced landing - Look for nearest drop

    Dead Hard - Tap E for distance

    The only one you could say is a well timed dodge with Dead Hard but most good players use it for distance which takes no skill.

    Also no chases wouldn’t end too quickly. I spent hours and hours getting good. You can easily loop bad killers all game with no exhaustion perks, and last a good enough amount of time in a chase against better killers.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099
    edited September 2020

    Not really, even a well timed dead hard doesn't take skill. The only exhaustion perk that takes skill is a well timed head on.

  • SlashstreetboySlashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    ^ this. I´d like to add that if the M1 Killer were to chase the Sprint Bursto Survivor the team would gain 20(not sure if this number is correct though) x3 seconds of gen time ;-)

    Had a similar discussion recently. The 5 second stun of DS gives the Survivor 20 meters of distance. Assuming the Killer is fast (115% or 4.6m/s) he would gain 0.6m/s. So to make up for the 20 meters granted by DS, the Killer now has to chase for 33.333 seconds to catch up again. This of course translates to 33.333x3 seconds of gen time for the other Survivors.

    I love exhaustion perks though, they certainly deserve a place in the game. Maybe some of them could be tuned down a little.

  • Kumnut768Kumnut768 Member Posts: 789

    i would say balanced landing would take skill considering you have to plan your path to get to a drop and where you use the speed burst from there, but dh is just press e to kill nurse and 99'd sb is really annoying

  • Science_GuyScience_Guy Member Posts: 1,529
    edited September 2020

    If (KillerInFrontOfLocker = true)

    {

    Shift+Space;

    }

    Wow, the skill.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Well, head on is one of those perks that is quite situational, and you actually have to think about using, since it takes a second or two to activate in the locker.

  • Science_GuyScience_Guy Member Posts: 1,529

    Using DH for distance requires the same timing as dodging, quit playing. If DH isn't skill, nothing in this game is; which still makes DH the closest thing to skill there is either way.


    Like all too many SB/DH/Exhaustion "arguments", this thread declares the perks are broken because they allow Survivors to do X, without ever actually providing any rational reason why Survivors should never be allowed to do anything resembling X!!! The idea that SB is bad because apparently good Survivors should be hiding in lockers has gotta be a joke. Entity forbid SB lets Survivors do generators longer without giving killers a free hit.

    I find it endlessly confusing that so many killers insist on making these arguments when there are WAY more killers perks you could claim are "absolutely broken" with logic that flimsy.

  • C_FrankC_Frank Member Posts: 179

    The real problem with exhaustion perk is recovering for exhaustion when u are injured. Same for gen repair. Be injured need more penalties for survivivors. And make sense for game

  • Science_GuyScience_Guy Member Posts: 1,529

    *shrugs* Being so much more situational just makes it less useful. Harder to use, yes, more skillful? Not really.

  • MusicNerd_TCMusicNerd_TC Member Posts: 3,099

    Fair enough, I'm just pointing out how it is harder to activate than the rest of the perks. But yeah, it probably isn't skilful, just hard.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 5,039

    Honestly the only thing they need is slightly (!) longer exhaustion timers.

    They are bassicly active every chase. it would be nice if they are actually a resource you had to manage.

    Nothing too big though, like if you had level 3 vigil and the times would be like they are now i think that would be perfect.

    if they don't change them i wouldn't be too fussed though

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 1,273

    Exhaustion perks need a downside.

    Exhaustion itself is a status effect that has no downside other than being a glorified cooldown.

  • ringwinningringwinning Member Posts: 551

    I just want to say that as someone who doesn't use exhaustion perks, my chases don't end very quickly at all.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    lmao

    "Do I have enough distance to make it to the pallet/window?"

    Yes - hold W

    No - Tap e

    So skillfull.

  • NursesBootieNursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    Sprintburst needs at least exhaustion managing skills. DH is one of the braindead second chances survivors get.

  • PipefishPipefish Member Posts: 314

    Well not every map has an easy spot to drop for balance landing or a bunch of windows for lithe so you need to plan a route to get there.

    I agree with you on Dead Hard, if used in the right place it can get you into a safe loop so it takes some skill. As Killer I personally find it annoying so I don't blame you for wanting it nerfed.

    Sprint Burst requires you to manage your walking and running time. Walk to much and thats wasted time you could be on gens. Run to much and you'll be exhausted when you need it.

    This is not to say they are not powerful but don't underestimate the amount of skill they require.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,818

    Exhaustion perks are annoying, but with the exception of Dead Hard I don't think they are in a bad place. Sprint Nurse is strong, yes, but what you don't see is the sheer amount of time they will spend walking around the map because they had to break their 99. Balanced is amazing on some maps and useless on others. Lithe is somewhat reliable, if very predictable. Head On is potentially the strongest exhaustion perk thanks to it's stun.

    But then you have Dead Hard, a perk for which there is no downside. Push a button to outplay the killer after they outplayed you. Right, seems fair. At the very least it should have a longer exhaustion period.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,219

    Dead hard is what all exhaustion perks should strive to be in power. Head on, Lithe, Sprint burst, Balanced Landing are good examples of bad exhaustion perks as they contain very abnormal drawbacks and conditions for effective use. Your also acting like Killer perks are somehow more special than survivor perks. Like NOED, you lose the game, but then randomly gain free movement speed and permanent instant down. There are perks like bbq,pop that require the killer to do a quest mechanic in order to reep their rewards but the quest is often something that you'll do through normal play, so Its not like these perks do not provide free information or free generator regression in some capacity.

    Weakening existing and Inventing bad killer/survivor perks isn't healthy for gameplay. All that does is further reduce player satisfaction and lowers the fun factor for both sides. It makes the game very stale.

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