Home Dead by Daylight Forums Discussions General Discussions

PGTW vs DS Bias - Discussion.

MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211
edited September 2020 in General Discussions

The DS vs PGTW situation hasn't been around too long, however since the announcement of the mid patch there's been a lot of talk and discussions and I want to summarise my reasons for the clear and blatant bias toward survivors.

  1. Ds is far more broken and unfair than pop - yet pop receives a nerf and we hear nothing regarding ds - a popular comment from "Almo" recently stating that they nerfed pop due to "having it up too long able to do other things" which is the exact reasoning which can be applied to DS.
  2. The main issue people have, including me, isn't more that PGTW has been nerfed, it's the reasoning behind it yet not applying it to other things like DS - on top of the fact the devs have said NOTHING about the DS situation and remain silent I find very insulting.
  3. DS's power compared to PGTW is disgusting - You can on average pull of 5-7 PGTW's before the game is over - let's be honest you're not going to hit 11-12 pops every single game, maybe 1 in a good good few as the game will be over. The timing lost on pop is quite huge to walk over to a gen, kick it etc - even sometimes not getting use out of it. --- The devs seem to forget every survivor in the match can use DS - if a survivor is competent that's 4 MINUTES of immunity - most survivors jump in a locker or work on a gen in front of your face (The argument for take the stun is ridiculous as the time a survivor will gain from a DS is disgusting - 20 seconds distance if the hold W - more if they find a loop)
  4. Pyramid hid vs DS and unbreakable- The reason behind Pyramid head's changes was because the devs believed that the executioner had to much power in the department of placing his sword down - putting the survivor in a LOSE/LOSE situation and thought this was unfair- yet can't we apply this exact reason to DS/Unbreakable? - if you down the survivor working on a gen right in front of you you either pick him up and get stunned or leave him so he can just get himself back up and work on gens - leaving the killer in a LOSE/LOSE situation - yet the devs remain silent, hmm.
  5. Survivors complain about Hex Undying/ Ruin - the funny thing is now because survivors have complained about PGTW and obviously the devs listen to that rather than ds/UB they've nerfed the only competition Rui/Undying had - now I can assure you despite the change being small a lot of killers will be using hex rui/undying a lot more due to this change.

At the end of the day the bias - despite me not wanting to say it - is just obviously there, the devs don't hide the bias as seen in the perk changes - the survivor perk changes are a lot better than the killer ones, the only decent change being Trails of Torment, the rest are useless let's be honest it's not game changing/ won't change the meta. The devs cannot make changes to killers and their perks with little reason and little complaints yet when ds has been complained about for years - refuse to change it even when the reasoning for PGTW's change is the EXACT SAME if not more reason to change DS.

Devs - please stop remaining silent regarding this UB/DS combo - it is abused beyond belief- even if you change it so the moment a survivor interacts with a gen/heal/locker etc - so they're not being "tunnelled" it deactivates - the devs have stated on stream before and times in the past it's an anti-tunnelling perk, anti momentum should NOT exist - punishing the killer for doing well is not fair.

The change I have stated would be needed to stop situations where you've chased, downed,hooked someone else - kicked a gen - found a survivor - you down him - pick him up - he still has DS. If he still has DS and the killer is baffled since he hasn't tunnelled etc - it's beyond abused and this one perk is the MOST controversial in DBD without a doubt.



  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    Ah the typical ‘get good’ play against 4 DS at rank 1 then come back to me.

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,972

    This discussion is 100% unneccessary. Who wants to bet with me that they will change DS within the next 3 months? I bet a steamversion of DBD.

  • UMCorianUMCorian Member Posts: 528
    edited September 2020

    DS is a garbage perk that, when combined with either someone else having BT or UB, encourages someone who was just unhooked to facehug the killer and force a lose/lose - either the killer attacks you and pays for it, or he doesn't and your friend gets away.

    Anti-Tunneling perks should not help you if you decide to throw yourself on my knife. That's just bad gameplay.

    If they can come up with a solution for DS that makes it a reliable anti-tunneling perk without encouraging you to hump my leg for 20-60 seconds and make an ######### out of yourself while I'm trying to respect DS and its combos, I'd welcome that.

    Maybe it's just as simple as while under the effects of BT, you have no hitbox so you can't body block. That's all the "DS nerf" I need. As for DS/UB combo *at least* I get to down you and make you waste some time too.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,290

    Just a head up.

    DS has went through about 5 changes over the years.

    Just because they don't mention something that doesn't mean it isn't being worked on.

    They may just not be able to discuss it atm as the change isn't as easy as another one.

    There is also the Thana change which no one mentions but the new numbers which we are waiting on may just make the perk worthwhile and more why PGTW is being changed.

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    And again we just ignore all relevance regarding DS usage and instead create some fake-facts so the pseudo-discussion can go on. Poor little biased killers.

  • xEaxEa Member Posts: 2,972

    I mean it, wanna bet with me?

    Devs have a plan and i am confident enough that they see the problem of DS and other perks (on both sides by the way)

  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    I do actually - I’m curious to see who’s win I just cannot see them changing it

  • PepsidotPepsidot Member Posts: 1,523

    What do you mean DS used to be 'built-in' and lasted for '15 seconds' after the unhook? It's never been like that.

    Are you confusing DS with BT? (Although BT has never been 'built-in' either).

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 1,310

    Why does it need to be a vs. discussion? Discuss them seperately.

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 3,105

    "Ds is far more broken and unfair than pop"

    I didn't read any further.

    POP: Objective progress removed several times a match with no way to stop it. On a killer like Freddy it is incredible.

    DS: Protects survivor from being tunneled and can be used as anti-momentum "if" killer allows. Can only be used 1-time.

    I think pop is obviously a lot more unfair. It is still just as strong with a shorter timer. It's not even a nerf.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 14,018

    You are actually incorrect in your example with PGTW.

    It is completely fine to talk about it in relation to other perks since this nerf is actually happening. That is the difference between "we need to nerf keys, bUt WhAt AbOuT mOrI's?" and "Why isn't DS being nerfed if the reasons for nerfing PGTW apply to it?

    It is totally fair for people to want answers as to why it is happening to one but not the other. Is it annoying with how many posts there are? Yeah, but it IS a big issue.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    You definitely have the right of this, the reason it can be compared is the REASON given for the "nerf" if the reason was different the comparison could not be made as it is. when you say that you reduce something because the time frame is too long and allows you to do more than what you expected you can then look at the other that has a timelimit and allows things to be done during it though the reasons for the time limit is different for each, the issue was stated what can be done inbetween start and end.

  • seki23seki23 Member Posts: 833

    the thing is as simple as this, pop is probably the best killer perk in the game at the moment, hey nerfed (ok i guess, i mean is not ok it didnt need a nerf at all but ok i guess) at the same time DS beiing the strongest survivor perk remains untouched thats the problem.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,722
    edited September 2020

    The only thing that i will take of this is that the creator of the term whataboutism instantly did it themself the second a nerf came that they didn't like.

    It was already hard to take that term seriously. Now it lost all meaning to me.

    As for the nerf I don't care that much. From my experience it really won't effect it that much.

  • ccactus623ccactus623 Member Posts: 214

    Let's be honest 90% of the time DS is used it's when the killer tunnels off hook, while in some situations it's feels cheap, the threat of the perk alone has made solo survivor more playable. The pop nerf wont change a thing, you can kick any gen on the map if needed.

  • DarKaronDarKaron Member Posts: 613
    edited September 2020

    Everyone is "losing their minds" over Almo's statement regarding the CHANGES TO POP GOES THE WEASEL, and how the statement "The [Player] has too much time to do other things while it's active" applies just as easily to Decisive Strike.

    This conversation devolved into us-versus-them like it always does, because this community has repeatedly shown itself to be filled with the most toxic asshats I have ever seen in any community before. Frankly, I'm sorry for the poor developers who have to deal with some of the bullcrap on these forums, and I feel bad for all the baby killers getting their collective skulls smashed in by the obvious power role in the game, despite everything in the lore stating otherwise.

    Am I salty that I've been getting creamed by toxic SWF console players all night? Yes.

    Is my statement true? Yes.

  • Dennis_van_eijkDennis_van_eijk Member Posts: 1,600

    The devs sure don't care that much about killers unfortunately and put their heads in the sand about the survivor perks.

    They know it is strong but they're not that great at the game.

    The made it very very obvious and even didn't bother to hide it when they talked about the doctor changes.

    I think spirit was nerfed and they were talking about that on the stream.

    At 1 point they literally said "which killer will we change next? What killer do I hate to play against?"

    Even though they know there are bigger issues that a killer they hate to go against, they never talked about it.

    Imo it is pretty sad to ignore the bigger problems and only focus on the things they just don't like.

    Sure it's their game so they can do with it what they like, but doing stuff like that will make people lose their trust and even push people away from them.

  • DarKaronDarKaron Member Posts: 613

    God, if I could post the "Thank you!" GIF from The Office, I would. Well put.

  • SadLegionSadLegion Member Posts: 220

    From not-tunneling killers point of view, DS is used 100% of the time when some shithead protected by it go for unhook or repair gen in front of your face. So it feels cheep in every situation.

    Noone asks to remove anti-tunneling feature from DS, just make it non abusable.

Sign In or Register to comment.