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PGTW vs DS Bias - Discussion.



  • ZaitsevZaitsev Member Posts: 1,285

    The perks are not similar in usability, but the reason that they nerfed Pop can also be applied to Decisive Strike.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18

    I do I don't mind ds if you don't like ds then stop playing the game if you can't deal with a 5 sec stun once in a match.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18

    I do and I don't mind ds that much. 5 sec isn't bad. I mean if you don't like the perk and want to make a we vs them debate the I suggest don't play the game. And my opinion is valid as yours.

  • SloppyKnockoutSloppyKnockout Member Posts: 1,505

    It actually applies more to DS. At least the killer had to earn Pop's usage.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18
    edited September 2020

    This we vs them debate sucks ass don't like it don't play the ######### game my god there is 20 for us uploads of that :/

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,054
    edited September 2020


    When you consider that the reason DS was made to activate upon unhook, it makes it very clear that Camping and Tunneling off hook are more common than you think. Two actions which get sidelined and are BUILT-IN mechanics (which means you didn't do anything to "earn" them) they simply exist within the game and are available through the entirety of the match. So while DS doesn't really require an action to happen, it also doesn't guarantee that you will get to use it. Unlike PGTW and after every hook.

    This is why the comparison of the two is flawed. You can't dissect parts of it you think are the same when the rest pretty much have no indication that they are similar.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18

    I mean it's your opinion and it's invalid to me because you want be a dick because I said my opinion so take your attitude somewhere else.

  • HoneyBadgerHoneyBadger Member Posts: 18

    I 100% agree do you know how many times I get tunnel off of hook especially with an ebony

  • AChaoticKillerAChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    No, we will debate this because they both influence how long the match will last directly, pgtw slows gens by getting downs and DS gives the survivors the option to do plays that normally would be a lot more risky as well as waste a lot of the killers time when it gets used.

    Both perks affect how long the match will last by a very considerable amount so comparing them is very reasonable. If you can't grasp that than maybe don't argue about it especially when those 5 seconds actually get 20+ seconds to the survivor and sometimes the killer has to completely let that survivor go if they make it to a good area. this isn't just if the survivor gets tunneled, that is abusable because of its long timer and if you have played in high ranks you see it abused constantly.

  • AChaoticKillerAChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104
    edited September 2020

    You reasoning is good but it doesn't acknowledge how a match usually plays out and the most important aspect of the game time. for the purpose to simplify my reasoning we will use how matches go in high level play and because most perks should be balanced around it anyway.

    pgtw is very simple you get rewarded for hooking someone and you can regress gens by 25%. This slows the game by a lot when you use it every time and its always possible for it to become activated.

    DS however is complex because of how it be used and it also depends on if the killer activates it. The reason it can be compared to pgtw is because of the amount of time it wastes and the progress on gens it can allow. A survivor who gets unhooked can simply go to a gen and work on it until the timer expires and if they also run unbreakable their is no way for the killer to punish and benefit significantly by going after them or downing them other than the stop the gen progress, getting a good survivor who just used DS can take anywhere from 20 seconds to over a minute depending on the area they go to and their skill. You also have to acknowledge that the survivor role is team based and the amount of progress being made on gens by other survivors from this interaction. While it is true that DS doesn't always get used the way you can use it to basically ignore the threat of being hooked for a minute.

    TLDR: they both influence the match greatly be affecting how long it lasts AND both affect gen progress. pgtw directly and DS indirectly.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I would argue that Trail is worse than the version now is. 16 seconds can be more than enough time to find someone. Survivors being in control of your perk is not fun.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
  • voorheesgtvoorheesgt Member Posts: 824

    Sadly they don't realize that this "pleasing the masses" mentality is killing their own game. The look at cold numbers and respond accordingly. Those numbers are the player base. More players main survivors than killers. However, every time they make a change based on number of people they please they are widening the gap. More concessions to survivors, more killers quit. Eventually the game will need killer bots to keep survivors from complaining about long lobby times.

  • DarKaronDarKaron Member Posts: 613

    Fun fact: I CANNOT disable crossplay for whatever reason. I'm stuck dealing with this crap until the day the game dies.

  • ToxicMyersToxicMyers Member Posts: 1,295

    Have you tried turning it off in the main menu? Because when in a mode you can't but in the menu you can

  • Falkner09Falkner09 Member Posts: 365

    also, note the fact that killers desperately NEED to multi task, whereas survivors already start with 4 people. so if anything, DS should have its timer reduced, while Pop should stay as is.

  • Dennis_van_eijkDennis_van_eijk Member Posts: 1,600

    You do know how bhvr works right?

    Don’t count on ds being nerfed anytime soon 😉

    Unfortunately the devs are very survivor biased instead of staying neutral, and they don't even hide it which I personally find it even worse.

    Maybe in the far future they will change but I have a feeling that that will never happen

  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    Agree with this point - as I say I hate being judgemental and saying it but the way the devs do things some times it really does lean toward the survivor side and it is very obvious sometimes.

  • Seiko300Seiko300 Member Posts: 1,862
    edited September 2020

    As someone who plays both sides it is PAINFUL how clear and obvious Devs Bias towards DS is when factoring in their decision to Nerf Pop, and it becomes increasingly so much harder to sympathize with survivors who actively ignore or straight up refuse to acknowledge this and the subsequent problems that Decisive Strike creates.

    Decisive Strike has never ONCE been balanced in four years, it is egregious how long this perk has existed as one of the oldest perks in all of DBD and yet always has remained a point of high contention and controversy for basically it's entire lifetime. Never once has the perk ever been properly balanced by the dev team and despite that the knowledge of why it is broken is now widespread common knowledge even to younger players who only freshly and recently joined, action is still not being taken.

    Or if it is being taken, it is not being properly communicated about which I would argue is equally bad. The community is livid and rightly so about the combined mismanagement and inaction of four years in regards to this one perk. When the tables were reversed, the idea of reworking Hex: Ruin received nowhere near this much pushback from killers that the idea of reworking Decisive has from Survivors. Killers took their medicine for their broken, un-fun, meta perk a long time ago and now it's time for survivors to do the same. That is called balance.

    And guess what? Ruin was tamed from previous incarnation and was fine after it's rework, it's still a quality and powerful perk that we see people use all the time. In all likelihood the same can be said for Decisive, only difference is it'll actually be used for the anti-tunnel purpose it was intended for, and nothing else- nothing more but equally nothing less.

  • Dennis_van_eijkDennis_van_eijk Member Posts: 1,600

    Same here, I really hate to say things like this.

    It makes me sound killer biased even though I try to stay as neutral as possible.

    But the way they use their wordings and what they said during a Q&A makes it very obvious.

    And sure I can understand that they try to please the majority of the playerbase, but they forget if the keep on nerfing/changing killers and perks they push to many people away from one side.

    Which creates a more unbalance between the playerbase of killers and survivors.

  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    Also this - it seems to be survivors become very defensive of this perk, they know how broken it is and want to continue to abuse it and don’t want it changed.

  • Dennis_van_eijkDennis_van_eijk Member Posts: 1,600

    Exactly, they have a security of an easy escape when they are off the hook and so they throw themselves at the killer or immediately start working on a gen with the killer close to them.

    Seen it happen many times over where I unhook a survivor and instead of wanted to get healed, they run towards the killer just so they can use ds.

    And if the killer won't pick them up, they have unbreakable for it.

    I personally would love to see it happen where if they get fully healed, work on a gen, unhook another survivor, etc, ds would just deactivate.

    It was made so they won't get tunnelled of the hook and if you can do objectives, you sure aren't tunnelled.

    And sure I use the perk too, but only for anti tunnel.

    And even if I get tunnelled, I rarely get to use it because by the time I downed the chase lasted way longer than my ds timer.

    But it's funny how they don't mind when killer perks getting nerfed, but god forbid when a survivor perk gets nerfed. 😂

  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    @Peanits Any ideas or anything behind the scenes regarding DS since everyone's so silent.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    my suggested changes to DS:

    When DS is active the following happens:

    1) Unbreakable and no mither will not let you get up (unbreakable's speedy recovery still works)

    2) after the 30 second mark if a player is working on a gen, totem, chest or healing another (already or starts) the perk deactivates

    3) if you get in a locker and IS is not healing you DS deactivates (so yes DS still active while IS is healing you)

    4) if you are after 30 seconds and 2 or 3 have not deactivated the perk, the perk deactivates at the correct time specified for the perk ie tier 3 is 1 minute.

    YES you can still weaponize it but not as badly. It also does not address the fact that the killer can be punished still for being efficient and EGC is not addressed. This is still fair, and limits what can be done to cause issues to the killer yet STILL afford the ESCAPE needed for the survivor.

  • ItzNobodyItzNobody Member Posts: 184

    Though I understand your frustration and apologize for being late to the conversation, isn't your reasoning also the response you seek to your question?

    "We play both sides and if you don't you have zero right of speaking."

    Well with that in mind, why does it bother you that people suggest if one Killer tool gets nerfed, then a Survivor tool should be given similar judgment as well?

    "Let's talk pop." "Wait what about DS?"

    "Let's talk mori's." "Wait what about keys?"

    I don't think those suggestions are irrelevant, a Killer's Mori can be a shortcut to a victory just as well as a Survivor's key. Furthermore, I would be willing to bet that if say Sloppy Butcher were to receive a nerf, people would rightfully ask well what about Desperate Measures?

    These do not sound like irrelevant topics to evade or change the subject at hand, this sounds like looking at the game from both sides. Killers and Survivors each have tools that counter the other, so logically if one gets nerfed then we would ask well why this change here but not the accomplice or counter over there?

    It would be like removing scissors from rock paper scissors, or in this case nerfing it. I believe it is right to ask, specifically due to Almo's reasoning, that if Pop Goes the Weasel is loosing its availability by 15 seconds because it granted too much value from its 60 second timer, then why not address the other Survivor perk that also produces a similar effect for 60 seconds?

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Its a team game if you feel that oppressed to run ds unbreakable (not to mention you dont need unbreakable lockers) try kindred or be mad at your team fpr not running by and the killer supposed to be the power role your not supppsed to survive if they want you dead theres a reason the perk is called borrowed time it's supposed to buy time for others to do gens so they escape. velawa killer got 4 hooks 1 kill they de pip 3 escape dose that sound lile a loss even though you died?

  • MasonOliver123MasonOliver123 Member Posts: 211

    This - people need to learn it’s a game where both sides matter, not survivors vs killers in balance, it should be equal for both sides in power but also take into consideration it is a 4 v 1, there’s one pop vs 4 DS. That’s 4 mins blanket immunity.

  • CallmehandsomeCallmehandsome Member Posts: 529

    I played the game since mid 2016 and DS was never built in for 15 seconds. Not sure where you got this fact

  • DankyDanky Member Posts: 216

    DS can be used 4 times per game. and since they keep nerfing killers and their perks it makes a us vs them.

    Mori's are going to be reworked only after being nerf'd alrdy and the devs cant even fix the balance.

    Mori's should only be looked @ when they balance survivors, its a 4 v 1 soooo logically killers should be stronger then a single survivor but they arent in this game.

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