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Talk About Matchmaking in Regards to SWF

Before I get anyone saying it- yes, I know, Matchmaking has always been screwy. But I guess I just want to air my grievances a bit with the matchmaker, since it gets so weird with SWF.

So, me and my buds will play DBD. We're all casuals- play games for a few hours after work or class if we have free time, talk about D&D and other hobbies while playing sort of deal.

Normally, we'll do a 3-4 man stack that normally goes well. Our normal players usually sit in high purple to Rank 1, so matchmaking is stable and fair. Some games we get stomped, some games it's a 2 man escape, some games it's a 3 or 4 man escape- solely based on the killer and how good they are.

However... when we invite some of our friends who are newer at the game to join us (such as, yellow rank, not even 4 perk slots open kinda deal), matchmaker just freaks out. We'll either get absolute baby killers that we feel bad about facing because they end up getting stomped by our experienced players, or we get absolutely annihlated because we got a Rank 1 Killer with 5k+ hours.

I dunno, I just wish the matchmaker could lessen out some of the extremes. We'll have a few games in a row where we get a decent midrank killer who isn't too overwhelming for our new players but not too underwhelming for the older players, but man, I just feel like there's a lot of games we get where it's either stomp baby killer or get stomped by really good killer- and I feel bad both ways. I don't want to discourage new killers from playing because they got matched with us, but I also don't want my friends to get discouraged from playing because they got absolutely demolished without really being able to even get a grasp on what was happening...

I dunno. I just wish there was a better middle ground or something so everyone can have fun.

Comments

  • burt0rburt0r Member Posts: 2,739
    edited October 2020

    Well the maybe best way would be to take all your ranks or other indicators of experience and average over all and match killer accordingly.

    For example 3 rank one plus on rank 18:

    1+1+1+18= 21

    21:4= 5.02

    So the matchmaking should start searching for rank 5 killer. Hard for your new guy but able to maybe hold his own against you other 3.

    But also rank lost its value as indicator of skill since I read that people can get to rank 1 in less than half of their first year while rank 1 is also home to people with hundreds to thousands of hours in this game.

    This is one of not THE biggest problem with balancing and matchmaking in dbd. The solution would maybe be the implementation of broader ranks up to maybe 50 with harder ranking up criteria, longer periods of time between rank resets or something like this. Old ruin was something like a noob filter for survivor ranks since it took the "skill" or rather experience to constantly hit great skill checks to smoothly rank up.

    In my opinion an alternative indicator for experience used for matchmaking could be devotion level of the account, but this would be problematic for people like me who never played the other side and would have to start on a high "ranking". Or maybe the overall level of all survivor/killer character a person has combined with prestige level. Probably a mix of both.

    Edit: I still love autocorrect. -.-

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,203

    Yes, it should be the average. They changed it to the highest Survivor at some point, but this just killed the queue times, because more players were in the Red Rank Pool, despite not being Red Ranks.

    And average should be ok, if a Rank 1 teams up with a rank 15, they get a Rank 8 Killer. They will have a hard time against the Rank 1, but an easier time against the Rank 15 (assuming no Smurfs), so it should even out.

    But in the end, MMR will be active at some points, so Ranks would not mean anything anyway. But of course it depends on how MMR is calculated for the Matchmaking, since it can be roughly the same experience for the Killer or Survivors (either the low-MMR Survivor will have a hard time or the Killer will be low-MMR).

  • burt0rburt0r Member Posts: 2,739
    edited October 2020

    The thing with mmr is it has to be build over time. Games like league of legends (yeah I know my staple example and the game I play the most) have had mmr since the beginning and had to tweak it over the years to end up were they are now. They even hard reset it very other year in the beginning to give a fresh start, which was horror in the first few weeks (just like dbd red ranks) of every reset.

    Dbd is already 4 years old and the community is already worn out/stressed as is from bugs, imbalances and the asymmetrical nature of this game combined with disparity between solo and swf.

    To implement a working MMR now is near impossible in my eyes. Veterans don't have the endurance to tolerate several months of smoothing out and new player will be put off by unfair matchmaking.

    Shadow creating an mmr might ease these problems but can't get rid of them since the base balance isn't given in this game (again the highest potential is stacked from swf over killer over solo).

    I am also one of the people that say buff solo survivor up to swf by giving them tools that won't do anything better for swf (mostly information) and then buff killer to the same level and make all killer roughly equally viable. Only then can a fair and useful matchmaking commence.

    But since this would take more work than two people on the balancing team and behaviour needs to release new skin twice a month, I don't think we will EVER see this paradise.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,203

    Honestly, I also think that they should scrap MMR entirely. It will not really work out, because the system cannot calculate every aspect of the game (Map-RNG, Perks, Add Ons) and will most likely not be working that good anyway. Let alone that nobody knows how it will be calculated, Information are not given (and will most likely never be available) and it is all hidden, which leads to the assumption that there is no MMR and they are just trying to "fix" Matchmaking by pretending to fix it. Yes, this is most likely not the case, but I can see this being brought up.

    Personally, they just should keep the Emblem System and tweak that a little bit. And then bring back a meaningful Rank Reset, because the problem in Player Skill Levels is mostly due to the small Rank Reset. Players get to Red Ranks/Rank 1 way faster, since they only get reset to Rank 5, which leads to Killers which usually would take longer to get back to Red Ranks being there against Survivors who are really good and also to Survivors having Potato Teammates, since those get faster into Red Ranks as well.

  • burt0rburt0r Member Posts: 2,739

    Yeah like I said the ranks need to be made wider like from 50 to 1 to fit all individual skill levels.

    Again lol has iron, bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, master, grandmaster and challenger and atleast up to diamond they are divided into 4 divisions. So minimum 24 ranks with promotion games between levels and only yearly reset by I think two categories. (And of course the working MMR.)

    Also the pip system let's people rank way to fast. A few good games and you are suddenly 5 ranks higher (atleast until purple). In league you have to collect 100 lp per division to reach promo games. 15-30 lp on win and something in the same range on loss depending on your performance but don't ask me how they calculate any of that.

    The emblem system and most of the ranking system does not really work in dbd and was set for fast success in the beginning to bind player.

    I can go 0k but 32k bp in green ranks and still sometimes double pip while I read that other people go 4k and depip in high ranks (without a Mori according to them). This whole system is convoluted and unintuitive.

  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 582

    Yeah, the system is dummy easy to game these days. One of the players I play with regularly has less then 300 hours in the game and is now sitting at Rank 4.

    I'd like for it to be able to grab the median of ranks- I don't think the MMR system is necessarily impossible to implement, but I do think there's way too many variables that I question it's accuracy. Plus, this is BHVR, so who knows how it'll be when they fully reintegrate MMR.

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