With this combo ruin can finally be a mid-game (late-game if your are lucky) perk. Two perk slot to achieve one objectif and you have to work for it by pressuring survivors, i mean it's not like the old ruin.
I'm not saying nerf it, I'm saying make it token based so that if it's broken and transferred by Undying, then it will lose strength, just like Devour and Third Seal. And it was awfully OP before, you had to be a braindead killer to think that perk was fair beforehand.
I think it's fine. Killers need something against gen rush and this is perfect. As solo survivor I don't mind doing bones first before gens.
I think it would be more fair if the aura reading only starts when a totem is being cleansed...not when you are simply walking by a totem
We can also just delete all Hex perks
I feel like you don't really understand the meaning of a word "nerf". Giving it tokens makes it a non-permanent perk, which makes it not only weaker, but sometimes even completely useless. Hence - this poorly thought out thing you propose IS a nerf.
Yeah. It was OP. Not awfully, because you still could destroy it very fast and easy, but OP. Just like any Hex should be. "High value - high risk" is the main rule of Hexes if you didn't know, dude. This is why some Hexes are considered bad - because they don't give high value. And if Ruin gets the nerf you are asking for - it will become one of those "bad Hexes", because it'll be completely useless without Undying.
Braindead are the people, who think that hitting skillchecks and breaking totems is incredibly hard thing to do. Old Ruin did its job even if it was broken early. Now New Ruin does its job, if used with Undying. And what do people, who can't play around totems, want? Nerf it of course.
I see more Killer perk variety in 3 Games as survivor than Survivor Perk variety in 10 Games as Killer.
"People want to have fun, not tryhard every single game" Suvivors gen rushing all time. Only meta perks and 4xItems with addons. Sure no tryharding.
i did not even say ANYTHING about what the tokens would do and you called it a nerf. I was thinking it would start a little weak, but grow to be stronger than it is now. You didn't know a single thing about what it would be and you called it a nerf. Just stop, I won't even care to read the rest of your comment as you clearly didn't care enough to process mine. Glhf.
-Do bones. The Perks go away if you do bones.
-Do gens. Ruin physically cannot take effect if you are on a gen.
You do know the best counter to this? Focus gens down. Secondly. Pop is useless on this combo so be thankful. Also I can think of worse. Devour and undying.
Ruin won't stop decent survivors who focus gens and ignore ruin. If it was old ruin and undying, I'd agree. But new ruin is just an inconvenience. Not a real threat.
Undying makes noed useless as most survivors end up cleansing all totems. Noed is much more of a cruch than ruin and undying. At least this you need two perk slots todo it. Noed is a one slot cruch.
Honestly Undying ruin is perfectly fine and makes people interact with the secondary objective or actually get punished for it.
"It would start a little weak" while now it starts off strong by default. And it's not a nerf? Ok lmao
Would devour hope starting with 2 tokens but never grant the exposed status be a nerf? You tell me.
Real pain is Devour, Undying, Haunted Grounds, and Thrill.
With this build ALL totems are lit meaning all totems notify the killer via thrill when touched (preventing people from doing dull totems "stealthily" to reduce the cleansing speed penalty thrill gives for each totem still on the map.) and you can run it on Billy or something with the intent to reach 5 devour hope stacks hopefully before the totems get popped or the match ends.
You still give up all stall, tracking, and chase perks just for an entire build revolving around keeping your Devour Hope alive, so I think it's still balanced. (Same can be said about something like NOED + Remember Me + Blood Warden + Rancor or something. You're literally at 0 perks (besides the survivor location reveal via Rancor with each gen pop) until the gates are powered.
So would you rather everyone 4man slug at 5 gens? If survivors keep pushing towards nerfing gen defense that's what is going to happen. Ruin was a never a problem until undying came out because it always got destroyed in like 5secs. Now that you can't do that you complain how does that logic makes sense? Without gen defense you force the killer to either slug or lose the game. So which you want be slugged the whole game because killer has no gen defense or deal with ruin undying by staying on gens and or taking out totems?
Again, genrush isn't a thing. This combo is most certainly fine, but genrush doesn't exist, and hasn't for years.
It would be a nerf ;)
Because 2 tokens are useless. Exposed, Mori and the panic they create are the only valuable things about this perk. And it already has token system to it, so lowering their number at the expense of Exposed status effect can never be considered a buff or an "equal" change.
Going back to Ruin - it doesn't give as OP effect as DH does (and tokens on TS are purely notional, just so you know how many you have hit, effect doesn't change with the growth of tokens like in DH or HL). New Ruin basically only gives you an opportunity to not kick generators in order for them to regress. Survivors still can rush 5 gens with Ruin up. I did it to killers and survivors did it to me, so I know that it's possible. But yeah, sure, why not, let's weaken killers' perks for gen-defense, without weakening survivors' ability to rush those gens. Seems fair and fun!
Ehhh only issue I see with the totem build is your not really using undying as much as you could be, since all spots are taken half of undying doesn't take effect.
Im wondering tho, does undying and haunted work??
Killers aren't allowed to have useful and creative builds, anytime they create something new after something gets radically changed or nerfed, they either shamed for using them or people will clamor to have it removed. All of this to play through the [BAD WORD] design of this game. Either you play the way I want to or you're a brain dead loser.
Behavior's going to get on that AI bot killer when?
And this right here takes the cake. As surv I hardly run meta builds, I personally don't need them to have fun or win (who would've thought?). So, I try to run detectives hunch when I can. Even though I don't run into undying/ruin very often, I like changing up my objectives because otherwise I'll just get bored of surv.
I will say that the combo is very powerful against solo queues, but they've been frustratingly bad to begin with. Undying/Ruin can be removed from the game, but expecting solo survs to balance doing gens and totem hunting is tough. Most of my solo games have issues with altruistic survivors never focusing on objectives, wasted pallets and short chases anyways. So nothing of value was gained or lost.
I'm still expecting a nerf though. Oh well.
Remove your comments about a perk combo, and replace them with DS. Then, mention a 60s immunity and you've created the exact same arguement against a perk with unreasonable and unintuitive counters.
Edit: "Insert obligatory DS nerf here" for self awareness points
Just cleanse the totems, it ain't hard.
I don't think it needs a strict hard nerf per se. Only two QoL "nerfs": 1) When a totem is cleansed and respawns, all survivors should be notified and gain the curse status effect. 2) The aura reading starts when a survivor starts to cleanse a totem, not when they just walk near one.
The combo is fine. Most of the Survivor meta is skillless trash, yet it only ever seems to get nerfed once it's being abused to nearly a ritual basis.
Looping is only strong 90% of the time because in of infinite jungle gyms or a window that shouldn't be in the killer shack without a breakable wall. It's literally bad map design.
Sneaking with things like UE have had no real active counter without a survivor making a poor mistake or luck, so the aura reading from Undying is absolutely necessary to protect totems, and not waste time relying on whispers to hopefully figure out the general location of a survivor.
Understand that survivor perks are powerful individually. For killer perks to equal most survivors perks run in the meta builds, most have to be paired, meaning two must be used to equal one of yours, and the maps are nearly always in survivors favor; especially the large maps.
It's a four vs one game with no external come lockout. This means even a remotely coordinated team can overcome most killers. This should mean the Killer is overpowered by default, but instead, killers are given ways to play mind games, rattle survivors, or otherwise pop the proverbial survivor balloon, only to have most of the survivors that don't want to have to figure out how to go against the killer and outsmart them wine and cry until the dev's nerf them, which usually results in the survivors complaining that the game is now boring.
The whole point of this is that the survivor is supposed to figure out waste out smart the killer and not die when you nerf all of the killer's ability to screw with the survivors or otherwise outsmart the survivors into the ground so that they're too easy to go up against it means survivors aren't having fun and the killers are having to try too hard, resulting in some of these toxic behaviors that you hate to see like slugging tunneling and camping.
You can't have it both ways.
You must be brain dead to have not seen the analogy. Starting weak with strength to follow =/= nerf
Yes! killers need perks with combos for win.
Undying need a nerf or remove it the Game..
I wanna ignore a secondary objective and concentrate to keep m1 whole game, I don't want to use detectives hunch, these slots are reserved for my DS and Unbreakable