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This should be a red flag to developers (Freddy OP!!!)



  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    The counter to this is have people split up and be doing multiple gens at once. Freddy can only be in one place at once, so to counter that, spread out. 1 person looping well can run a Freddy in circles even with his traps. Don't be afraid of his teleporting because most of the time it's a mindgame. Also don't run towards a gen if you can help it because he can just teleport to it and hit you as you're running by.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227


    Not really sure if you are making a joke or misunderstood something I was saying in the OP.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    As you just said, you don't have access to bhvrs data. That is exactly where I'd look. Especially since the devs have told you to not only look at that chart. Unless I missed it, you don't even know what criteria the "win rate" is in that graphic. (This one I might have missed and it'd answer how many people escaped vs died.) The point of that question is, what constitutes a "win"? All 4 killed or just 2 killed? If it's only 2 that means 2 people still escaped and won. That would be pretty balanced, yes?

    Free passives? I'm far more scared of killers that can expose you than I am of Freddy. I can run circles around Freddy lol but see, I don't use my anecdotal evidence to counter yours. See how that works?

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    As far as I can tell, I can still hit survivors which then puts them into the dream world. Maybe I have the mechanics backwards?

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    It's not "win rate' it's kill rate, therefore we know exactly how they get it. By killing survivors. The more survivors they kill, invariably, the stronger of a killer they are.

    "Free passives? I'm far more scared of killers that can expose you than I am of Freddy. I can run circles around Freddy lol but see, I don't use my anecdotal evidence to counter yours. See how that works?"

    A good Freddy will catch you because of snares, so I highly doubt this claim.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    He will if you keep looping the same loop. Move away. I literally just listed to someone else how to counter Freddy. It's not hard.

    Ok so how many games did he lose then? If that's the kill rate, that doesn't tell us if he won matches. All it says is he can kill.

    My entire point here is, all your points are flawed *if* there's no data to back them up. I main Freddy. I still lose games. Somewhat often. And I'm not even in red ranks. I lose more than i win though. Having data of kill rate doesn't actually tell you if it's *win rate*. There's a difference.

    And yes, kill rate can LEAD to win rate, but that's not definitive.

  • ill_Boston_lliill_Boston_lli Member Posts: 899

    Doc has a 7% pick rate EWWWWWWW!!!!!!

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301
    edited October 2020

    Doc I have a far harder time countering than Freddy. His giant ass spark that gets a good portion of the map is aarrgghhhh.

    Side question - what does bhvr consider a "win" for the killer? 1 kill? 2 kills? 4 kills?

  • Micheal_MyersMicheal_Myers Member Posts: 1,143

    Its because they have passive sleep.

    Fox stated that if he were to change the dream mechanics that he would change that the dream time wouldn't count down until you hit them for the first time. But the timer just means you are in micro sleep. Which also means that Freddy could theoretically hunt you down. Removing the timer until the first hit would not canonically make any sense to his lore.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,282

    According to that chart we also need to massively have nurse buffed. Also pig is OP and needs a nerf. Also leatherface is better than spirit so she doesn't need a nerf and I'd totally fine.

    Also. As a nurse main with 1.2k hours. She is by far the best killer in the game. Like miles away.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    "Ok so how many games did he lose then? If that's the kill rate, that doesn't tell us if he won matches. All it says is he can kill."

    A 'win' is subjective in this game. Kills are not. No one is basing their arguments on wins, they base it on kill rate and killer effectiveness.

    "My entire point here is, all your points are flawed *if* there's no data to back them up."

    Except I have 2 sets of data to back it up.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    Wait, Freddy has lore here? [BAD WORD].

    I'm a huge FredHead (it's why I main him) but it's obvious they used the remake version for him, which is bbllaahhhhhh. Microsleep is meh from a canonical perspective.

    I figure they patterned him off the new Freddy for licensing reasons but man, I think OG Freddy would be amazing. And Nancy (instead of Quintin. Lame.) Bur since we have a Nancy, get us a Tina. Or even an Alice. Someone from the original series!

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    It makes complete sense, what about it doesn't make sense? The lore is supposed to be that he gets his power from people remembering him. If he never attacks someone he can't be remembered.

    Furthermore lore should not supersede gameplay. It's a simple change that would make things better for both sides.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    I do. Just because they said "don't draw conclusions" does not mean that the charts are meaningless. When you consider ALL this stuff the picture becomes pretty clear that Freddy needs to be tuned down some.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    That's not how Freddy gets his power in the new movie. They never explain how he gets his power. He just really likes fear because it makes him all tingly inside, like Nancy did before he got flambe'd.

    The old movies, him being remembered didn't really come into play until Freddy vs jason. If remembering was a thing, in freddy's dead the entire town remembered him.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    Vet me hard evidence and we will talk. Until then anecdotal evidence is useless. And that's all this forum (and to be fair, most gaming forums) has. It's ok - it's fine, but when pressed for facts, you can't use feelings.

    So if "win" is subjective then I'd first like to know what the average is on kills per match. If he has 5000 matches and manages to kill at least 1 person every match, that's not really a bad thing. If he has 500 matches and kills all 4 every time, that's another. But he has counters.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301
    edited October 2020

    Have I argued that Freddy is fine? Have I argued that Freddy doesn't need to be changed? I'm perfectly fine if he needs change. But I need to see something more than just whining.

    Post edited by Rizzo90 on
  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301
    edited October 2020

    Lol and yet none of this addresses the fact that you have no hard evidence. Just because you don't like being pressed doesn't mean it's an invalid argument. (By the way, you fall into group 4. Just an FYI)

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    The only bhvr stat you have is 1 graphic showing pick rate vs kill rate unless bhvr has actually shared their data with us all and I missed it.

    The only echo chamber I see here is the anecdotal evidence chamber. Get me some hard data. Freddy is counterable, like hex perks.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited October 2020

    They released a stat dump probably about this time last year, a few months after Freddy's rework, and even there he had a significantly higher kill rate at all ranks. They also included red ranks, where he was still the highest by a wide margin.

    Comparing that one to this one it seems that EVERY killer's kill rate went down, but Freddy remains above every other killer by a statistically significant amount.

    Also I never claim anything about counter play. YES he can be countered, I won't deny that, but he is still a very strong killer so much that he has the highest kill rate for well over a year.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    Fair. Point noted.

    I'll be clear. I do not know if Freddy is good or bad because I do not have enough information to determine that.

    If I go by my own anecdotal evidence as well as the evidence I see of streamers, then I find I rarely get 4 kills, most of the time it's 1. I can't get to the other side of the map if my power is on cool down, so when they spread out I have no way of countering.

    So as far as I'm concerned, Freddy isn't good enough. But I know better than to use my anecdotal evidence.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    Bhvrs Stats aren't wrong. You're just taking them farther than they need to go, as even stated by them.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301
    edited October 2020

    Ok THIS is getting somewhere! Tell me more.

    This is good!!! This is data! Even if it's old days it's still something!! Now, give me some figures. Let's work out the math so we can provide stats to the devs that can show them where the breakdown is.

  • Dead_By_DevsDead_By_Devs Member Posts: 40

    No freddy is not op. He is just very rewarding for being so easy to play. Look at the nurse statistic, which shows that this isn't taken from high ranks.

    I must admit that i hate freddy. If you hate freddy i would recommend spinechill, its a very good and underrated perk that ruins his lullaby oblivous effect.

    Most of his power actuelly comes from the sleep state, which ruins BT which is stupid, and makes camping good, so an easy fix would be to rework BT so it works on the hooked persons heatbeat.

    Regarding to fixing freddy. I believe that the passive clock thing should be buffed, so they actually serve a purpose adding more time to be immune to freddys sleep.

  • cannonballBcannonballB Member Posts: 301

    But again, not fine if based on anecdotal evidence. It's backing up his "I feels" rather than "the data continues to show ..." See the difference?

    Going to a dev and saying "his kit is bad because he can get anywhere fast. Then add perks and oh no! Now he can slow down AND kick gens to make them worse!". Yes. That's how the game is designed.

    But going to s dev and saying "look. Your chart shows he has a pick rate of 3.(whatever) percent. His kill rate is 66%. Based on the other numbers you've given us, as well he really needs to not have 10 traps on the ground. 10 is way too many and he can put them everywhere. If you look at this data here, you can see that 85% of traps laid down are triggered. That's far too high if you have the ability to have 10. Don't you think a 50% chance would be more balanced?"

    This example is literally the worst example I pulled out of my ass. You get the point.

  • AkitoAkito Member Posts: 601

    Yea. I mean he's not OP. His ability is just way too easy to use and way too high rewarding. There's no special knowledge, skill or downside to all of his tools. You just press the button and spam the hell out of it. No fall back, no cooldown, no downside, no tactic nothing.

    So Freddy with all of his tools is fine but

    1.Sth needs to be changed so that you have to be actually good and you get punished for missplays.

    2.He's way too oppressive for solos. But that's more of a singleplayer problem. Sth the devs shouldve already fix in order to create more things and killers who relies on coordination and information and stuff like that.

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