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Recent mori changes show whats wrong with the game - and it's NOT the devs!

CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093
edited December 2020 in General Discussions

It's really astonishing. Mori's were complained about FOR AGES, and more or less universally agreed that they are problematic. The very change that was implemented now was suggested countless times!

And when it get's finally changed, what happens?

"LaZy NeRf!"

"MoRiS aRe UsElEsS NoW!"

"BuT WhAt AbOuT KeYs?"

"DeVs ArE LaZy!"

I'm so annoyed these days with forum posters, it's unbelievable. Many here are so preoccupied with their opinion, just look at the various mori threads working as perfect echo chambers. It's a neverending circle of dooming everything that the devs do, everything is bad and could have been done so much better, devs only care for cash, game is the worst it has ever been (an outright lie!) and so on and so forth.

But lets look at the mori change now:

What was the MAIN issue with Moris? Lame-Ass tunneling after first hook to get a survivor out of game fast. Thats obviously very unfun for the affected player. That simply is NOT POSSIBLE anymore!!! That alone is GREAT news, which everyone should joy about!

(Technically, the killer can still tunnel a survivor through both hooks and then mori, sure. But that does not differ to much from regular tunneling, which the killer could have done without a mori anyway.)

"But my fix would have been so much better!" WHAT A SHAME!

But lets look at other popular suggestions: Mori after all have been hooked once. You do recognize that it gives the survivors the power to totally deny you any mori kills? If you have just one stealthy / immersed blendette you cannot find, your mori may be totally wasted. THAT would be useless! And if you manage to hook all four, you would be free to tunnel-for-mori the fourth hooked, the very thing that should not be possible anymore, imo.

The other suggestion, enabling mori after like 6 hooks, can be even more unfair. You hook three survivors two times and then inst-mori the fourth survivor on the spot without any hooking. Only the current change ensures that you can't get moried until you hit struggle phase (apart form DH, Rancor, Tombstone, of course).

"Moris are useless now!"

Yes, they are no longer overpowered and will only have a limited impact now. But why on earth is that a bad thing? Imo, there shouldn't be any short tracks for either side, bc thats bad game design. Moris are fixed in this regard now, keys will follow. Moris are now a fancy way of finishing of an already doomed survivor, the way it always should have been, imo. They can still be used as late game DS counters (the time when DS has the most impact, btw). And finally, quite importantly, a secret offering being used is now no longer a reason to quit on loading or suiciding on hook! Moris still have their use, they just cannot be used anymore to get easy wins.

"Keys should have been nerfed as well!"

Would have been nice, sure. But as many others already explained multiple times: Changing keys is just way more work, with many things depending on it (hatch mechanic, addons, possibly new animations). Mori change was just a numbers change, a small change that makes mori trials way more enjoyable (at least for the survivors). It's actually a good thing that the devs decoupled this change from the key changes, bc. we will have the benefit of it now, not in like two month or so. If a change has the potential to improve the game experience greatly, why delay it until another, somewhat similar aspect is fixed as well?

Another thing I want to point out: This change came totally unexpected, and I guess with good reason: many killer players would have spammed their moris if they knew their moris get nerfed soon. Since the key changes will likely be tested in a PTB, changing both moris and keys together would have exactly the proclaimed effect: As soon as the info gets out that key/mori changes will be tested on next PTB, some killer would begin to spam their moris in their trial, how much fun would that be ... just look at the insta-heal addon changes, lobbies were full of insta-medkits before the changes finally kicked in.

"The devs are lazy, do not care for their community / only care for their money."

This argument is just so plain stupid and out-of-touch with reality, it's futile to waste anymore words about that.

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Comments

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    It need not be true immersiveness (meaning someone being useless doing nothing but hiding). Just one player being observant and good at stealth, can totally deny you your mori. Esp. in a 4-man swf, I can see the other three deliberately distracting the killer from the last survivor. For soloQ, sure immersive players will hinder the team in doing progress, so the mori works, somehow, but you still are denied your mori animation.

    I guess it comes down to your intention of using the mori. If you use the mori bc you want to kill by hand (e.g. you have a daily), one immersive survivor being able to deny you your mori is a bad thing. If you equip it for slowing down the game, then sure, it would help if the last surv plays more cautiously. Although, finding an immersive player is already a pain in the a**, the hook-all-for-mori might even encourage that playstyle, esp. in soloQ. Not a route I'd lika to take honestly.

    Apart from that, sure there may be different opinions about how to fix the moris. But then it should at least be objective and well thought-out, considering pros and cons, in a civil manner. But many other threads about the more change I saw were like "NERF BAD, DEVS DUMB", that does not help anyone.

  • GreatamygdalaGreatamygdala Member Posts: 292

    How hard is it to code that you just have to change hatch spawn requirements from instead of 3 survivors/1 generator it only spawn when there's one survivor left then go from there for future updates.

    I'll take 1 potential survivor escaping over two or three.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    Like I wrote, key changes likely will require a PTB. So there is no "without warning" for keys. You either have to take the mori changes into the PTB as well, or leave them deliberatly out of ptb and then surprise players with it with the actual patch. But in this scenario, you can bet that players would ######### around why keys got changed and not moris (atleast for the hypothetical PTB). The only true way for hitting both without warning would be both being patched simultanioulsy in a patch without prior PTB. But since the key rework might be a bigger change, that would be really bad practice.

    If you want to patch both at the same time, you have to decide: either patch without warning [BAD, bc no PTB for testing], or run PTB [BAD, gives warning to players to spam moris / keys beforehand]. So BHVR decoupled it, mori being patched without warning, keys likely in PTB. The thing is, hitting Moris unexpectedly is far more important than keys. Why? A killer can try to adjust for keys, since he will see them in the lobby. Moris are only seen when the game starts, a survivor cannot adjust to it. And we certainly do not want to have a match.cancelled pandemic because of overused moris.

    Why the devs did not do this simply change sooner, thats a valid question. I do not know, the usual answer would be bc. other things were more important. But I guess that they always had the intention to fix both of them somewhat together, but not necessarily in the same patch. They wouldn't just fix moris when they do not have a plan what to do with keys yet. So maybe the key changes are now developed enough that they feel confident to release the mori changes, with key changes following soon after. Thats all my guessing, sure, but would be a reasonable approch, imo.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    I wouldn't mind that either.

    But if that's not the route the devs want to take, but doing something more fancy, it will take more time, simple as that. It's still their game, sure we all can make suggestions, but it's still their decision to implement it the way they want.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 3,734

    Believe me, there are survivors who are capable of being barely seen by the killer and still slam on gens. Being stealthy and being immersed are two different things.

  • CLAUDETTEINABUSHCLAUDETTEINABUSH Member Posts: 2,210

    I agree completely. I have no additional things to say.

  • SaintDorksSaintDorks Member Posts: 252

    "Another thing I want to point out: This change came totally unexpected, and I guess with good reason: many killer players would have spammed their moris if they knew their moris get nerfed soon. Since the key changes will likely be tested in a PTB, changing both moris and keys together would have exactly the proclaimed effect: As soon as the info gets out that key/mori changes will be tested on next PTB, some killer would begin to spam their moris in their trial, how much fun would that be ... just look at the insta-heal addon changes, lobbies were full of insta-medkits before the changes finally kicked in."

    Tbh,It is better people get the last bit of juice out of items they used once and never bother picking up a again then having a hand full of hot trash. Since,well you can't burn items for BPs so they are setting dead in their hands now. Atleast then the game would have a massive spike in killers trying to purge something and never picking It up again.


    "Moris are useless now!"

    "Yes, they are no longer overpowered and will only have a limited impact now. But why on earth is that a bad thing? Imo, there shouldn't be any short tracks for either side, bc thats bad game design. Moris are fixed in this regard now, keys will follow. Moris are now a fancy way of finishing of an already doomed survivor, the way it always should have been, imo. They can still be used as late game DS counters (the time when DS has the most impact, btw). And finally, quite importantly, a secret offering being used is now no longer a reason to quit on loading or suiciding on hook! Moris still have their use, they just cannot be used anymore to get easy wins."

    I honestly only ran moris to purge the game of flashlight taggers..So, now I will just activity camp hooks til they are at teir 2. Because, letting them be unhooked at teir 1 is now a problem since they will just flashlight blast me.


    As stated before,they are not gonna change keys they more then likely are gonna settle for a new killer with a hatch related perk (as they normally do) So you are gonna have to waste a slot..Even,then..I think the best way to deal with keys Is,just make frankland's demise work even if survivors put the keys down (or give the killer a stomp on item to break option). You do not have to nerf everything to the ground to solve a problem. Just, use a brain for about 2 seconds.

    In terms of why this was kind of goofy relates to the fact of this whole killer lock-in ordeal as well as a bunch of other crap people have had to deal with..Including the new Killer being buggy as sin. And a Konga line of Cosmetics yet some bugs (Including people being unable to move, People hacking/cheating and so on) have not be fixed. In the long line I think figuring out why random people can not move during the game is more important then well adjusting the mori numbers. There are more then likely mutiple ways to make a mori rework without making It " a fancy way of finishing of an already doomed survivor" Which honestly for the price and the punishment (yeah you make less points for a mori) is not worth its red tier. If It is gonna be a hastle to run then make people get triple the points for moring a Survior. Because, It is now no longer a quick clean up at the cost of points..But, basically punishing yourself for a animation..(Which most are still slow as frozen dung). If that is how It is ment to be then every survivor tribute should force the survivors to have more time on each gen by 10 to 20 seconds pre tribute. Cause, that is fair right. Wasting time and all that.

    Like that is the problem, there is no reason to run them. The cost is too great. the time wasted is too great. It is counter productive to even run them for a archive quest.

  • noctis129noctis129 Member Posts: 967

    I can't wait for the next complaints by entitled survivors!


    Mori's are done, I wonder what's next? Let's just keep nerfing killers!


    I already stopped playing killer. My killer is now rank 20. Every time I play killer, I get a 4k now without mori. I only play for dailies. Nothing more.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    Yes, some/many will. But like I wrote, killers can try to adjust for it, or just dodge the lobby. Survivors cannot adjust to (old) mori. If they run scavanger builds, they actually waste more time.

    It has nothing to do with inequal treatment, thats just entitlement speaking there. All the last patches were changing things here and there, sometime the one side got buffs / nerfs, sometimes the other. And claiming the game will die over this petty business is extreme hyperbole, come on.

  • AChaoticKillerAChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104
    edited December 2020

    i made a post yesterday about this very thing, the devs took the BEST route to this nerf, was it simple yes, was it disappointing yes, was it a straight nerf yes and that is what they needed mori's impacted games too much. The only flaws this nerf has is how simple it is and that it is a straight nerf and neither of those are actually flaws since the intent was to nerf mori's.

    People are complaining left and right or saying how X idea would be better yet they can't show the idea they just say a vague version of it while ignoring it's problems. The worst of them all simply know exactly what they want but don't care about how abusable or problematic it is, basically saying "I don't care what happens, make it work!".

    Also all the players saying "mori's are useless" are power hungry, they still allow you to tunnel and ignore saving mechanics it's just now only limited to last hook. that is still helpful and strong yet these players expected mori's to still work mid game and win them matches, like what were you expecting a nef is a nerf the devs were not going to use a problematic solution like having to hook all survivors over a simple flawless solution of having survivor mori-able off last hook.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    Taking the survivor side, are you for real? Freddy Buff, Doctor Buff, InstaHeal nerf, Toolbox changes, map reworks (most recent Ormond, oh all the whining), Hex:Undying. I would even say Ruin change was for the better. How on earth can you claim the devs are survivor sided? The last two years shifted the game from heavily survivor sided to more or less even now (with SWF being favor for survivors, and soloQ in favor for the killer). Sure killer got some nerfs as well, and survivors some buffs, but claiming victimhood only for poor killers is so far off the bat that it's not even funny anymore.

    The "lose trust in devs" is another of this BS. If one constantly neglects all positive changes and only hooks themself to the things not working properly, of course they "lose trust" then. Some folks here seem to have a mission to talk down and shame the devs for each and everything, repeating lies like "devs don't care" over and over again (or why did the devs do changes to twins after reported issues form PTB).

    I'm more or less a killer main, and I did not lose trust. If anything, the recent mori changes increased my trust in the devs! Bc mori abuse was a really unfun experience which needed to be addressed. Finally it was. And I'm super hyped for upcoming key changes. So please, don't talk on "most" killers behalf if you do not have any information to prove that it's indeed a majoritiy thinking like that. Thats just not true.

  • AChaoticKillerAChaoticKiller Member Posts: 3,104

    That is lazy and unlike mori's there are plenty of things they can do to balance keys, making it more fair when opening the hatch, giving keys an addon pass, and making them more useful in other areas besides just the hatch are all likely things that the devs are currently working on.

    The issue with keys was never that they allowed survivors to escape early the issue was how it was implemented. There is no interaction between the killer and a survivor opening the hatch if they made it so there was and introduced a good way to alert the killer of the hatch being opened keys could be balanced.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    It was universally agreed by both survivors and killers that moris are problematic. Don't make it into a fight between survivors and killers, thats not the point!

  • noctis129noctis129 Member Posts: 967

    It was universally agreed that both mori and keys needs a rework. No killer side agreed to only nerfing killers.


    And I'm a survivor, not a killer.


    There is a constant wave of nerfing killers in the past 3 months. Mori was fine as it was. Its a meme offering.

  • GreatamygdalaGreatamygdala Member Posts: 292

    I'm literally just going off on the whole "B-but Mori nerf was easier to implement" when Keys is just the same. Change a number and you're done. You think I don't want an actual rework for the keys?

  • lucid4444lucid4444 Member Posts: 682

    It really blows my mind that people play only 50% of this game... and then not understand that their view of balance in this game is skewed

  • MythMageMythMage Member Posts: 521

    I cannot upvote this enough

  • noctis129noctis129 Member Posts: 967

    This is exactly it. Ppl needs to play the role they hate to play, and understand the other side. Otherwise they are just entitled. Making emotional comments and tries to justify it w logic.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    And having a spike in killers all spamming their moris is desirable in any way? No no, nerfing moris out of the blue is a way better solution imo.

    Mori for flashlighters feels really overkill, tbh. But whatever, when you want to camp them to second stage, do it. At least the other survs have some time to do gens then.

    How do you know they will not change keys, are you part of the team? I find it really arrogant claiming to know what will happen when you are not even involved in the development.

    "Konga line of Cosmetics yet seome Bugs" There are different teams, ever heard of that? Or how you put it: "Just use a brain for about 2 seconds"

    Less points for mori was esp. the case when tunneling right after hook (bc you loose opportunity to injured/down/hook that person again). If you play normally and use the mori just for the last state, as you have to do now, it does not change so much about the points. Btw., if you say that mori is to expensive now: if you used it for tunnel-mori, you also won't have gotten many points, so it won't have been worth it either. Where is the logic there?

    The reason to run it is: 1) Daily, 2) Have some late game DS protection. It's not an ez win anymore, which is a good thing. The cost of 7k BP is negletable compared to all the sh*t you have to grind through. If you can, avoid the moris from now on. For you old, yes the BP are lost, but they are lost as well when mori did not change. Moris may waste time yes, but they did so before as well, so where is the point? Archive quests never required you to use a mori! There was just one where you had to kill one by hand, but that could be achieved with DH. Dailies do.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    Yes both need a rework. And the first half was done now, the other will come as well.

    Please lay out to me this constant wave of nerfing killers, I'm really interested.

    Mori was certainly NOT fine, why should it need a rework then? You even wrote it yourself in the first sentence!

    Pls check again your definition of "meme", I fear you do not understand the term. "Memeing" means more like fooling around, best with crude perk builds and playstyles. A killer tunnel-moriing each and every survivor is the exact opposite of a "meme" game, #########.

  • DoritoHeadDoritoHead Member Posts: 3,500

    The title looks like clickbait lol

    But anyway I agree. The game's community is the problem in this case.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    Yep, it is clickbait, got me there xD.

    The title would not have worked as good had i wrote "community" instead of "game", bc the devs are not directly responsible for the community ^^.

  • CaulDrohnCaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,093

    If you are directing it to me (the op), let me ensure you that a play more killer than survivor, and STILL really like this mori change! Bc using a mori felt always like a cheap way of winning for me. Now, with this change, i can finally don on a mori without feeling to bad about it, since I know it won't make much of a difference.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,608

    actually, tunneling is not only still very much possible with the mori, its the only way to get any benefit from the offering now!

    why waste your time with the mori animation when its much faster to just deathhook them and move on? not only does hooking a survivor usually take much less time than watching the animation play out, it also activates all your hook related perks such as BBQ or Pop. the ONLY benefit you get from the death hook mori without hardtunneling is, that you dont lose a hook - which is rarely ever a problem, unless map RNG absolutely hates you (which no one can tell before the game starts anyway, so the mori is gonna be quite useless in 99% of the cases).

    literally the only benefit the mori has right now would be to bypass Decisive Strike, which is only ever a thing when the killer decides to tunnel anyway.

    additionally the killer could just camp any caught survivor into 2nd hook stage and then hardtunnel them once they get unhooked, which is basically just the old mori with a 60 second delay.

    the, much wanted, solution that would actually have gotten rid of tunneling is the one you already mentioned - hook everyone once and THEN get your mori to activate.

    that would force the killer to actively avoid tunneling early on in the match (and later on doesnt really give him any incentive to start eigther, as everyone is now moriable), aswell as create some actual counterplay to the offering! you already said it, stealth would now be able to deny the killer their mori, if done right. that way the other side would have much more of a chance to counteract the offering, it would force the killer to avoid playing like a douche to get usage of it AND it would still be powerful enough to be usable, while no longer being a free win ticket.

    imo that solution is superior to the current change in literally every way.


    and yes, the mori nerf was lazy.

    i dont even know how anyone would be able to defend that it took them 3.5 years to increase the number value of this offering by one. in 3.5 years they could - and should - have come up with something MUCH better than that!

    actually, they didnt even have to come up with anything themselves - there were tons of community ideas regarding mori changes.

    their solution was easily the worst solution they could have found and it just shows that they got no idea what they were doing.


    and no, im not saying that old moris were better than the new ones. im not trying to act like the nerf should be reverted, id muh rather have a useless offering than a gamebreaking one.

    but that doesnt mean i'd have to like and/or support the change they made.

  • noctis129noctis129 Member Posts: 967

    Just don't use mori than. Why u gotta ruined it for other ppl.

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