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Pyramid head

Now I want to start this by saying for the most part I love PH. His visual design is cool and his power is very unique but I have one major problem with it

His tunnelling potential.

Pyramid head is clearly designed to be able to tunnel one poor survivor out of the match very quickly which I think is very unhealthy as they shouldn’t promote that kind of play style

Now they did change it awhile ago so he couldn’t see cage auras but since it spawns them as far as it can away from you consistently any decent PH will know where they are anyway.

Survivors can obviously avoid his trails but usually you’ll have to walk through one if the PH places them well because it’s either that or a free hit.

Again I love his Potd attack and it’s a very balanced anti loop ability but the cages aren’t really in a good spot right now.

Since it blocks your perks as well as survivor’s perks the only time you used them is to bypass a ds because you tunnelled or to avoid flashlight or pallet saves.

I think it could be worth testing hook based perks working on cages as this would make PH more fun for both sides as they would be able to use their perks.

Imagine a survivor breeding a gen while you down someone else so you quickly cage them and pop the gen. Things like this would help PH be more versatile as well as fun

Feel free to discuss as this is just my opinion



  • MringasaMringasa Member Posts: 860

    Tunnelers going to tunnel no matter what. I don't think PH is unique in that regard.

    Hag's traps make it easy for her to tunnel/proxy camp, Trappers traps the same to an extent, Oni/Billy/Nurse/Blight all have tunneling potential because of their cross-map speed. Wraith as well with proxy camping + invisibility. Not to mention Ghostie's power.

    The Cages force Survivors to make smart rescues. I think this is a mechanic style that needs to be implemented on more Killers. Punish the ones who rush in crutching on their DS/BT and reward the ones who play it smart, pay attention to where the Killer is located, then move in to save. You have a lot of time to make a save, there's no need to do it within 2 seconds of them being hooked.

    I don't really see it as a power or Perk related thing, it's more of a mentality problem with the player base. "Rush, rush, rush" is the norm. It should be pushed further in the direction of "Consider carefully, plan your move, execute", imo at least.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    Depends on iron will or not really and some PH’s will go out of their way to find them

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    Not sure about bbq as you usually cage when survivors are close and devour is already cleansed pretty quick.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    You could buff him in other ways as I think having a killer placed high because he’s can tunnel well is pretty bad

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,468

    Usually, but it would be very easy to use cages and get stacks really fast and even without undying you would probably get a lot of stacks before it is cleansed.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486
    edited February 2021

    As the self-proclaimed Pyramid Head main of EU, I actually agree here; his tunneling potential is off the charts.

    I'm not convinced making hook perks work with cages would be the way forward, though. He could still very easily tunnel someone off the hook, ignore their DS with a cage, and then when they're uncaged he chases them again, and they either torment themselves mid-chase or just get slugged. Or they'd eat the DS but that's just idiotic.

    I agree, it could be very fun to do, however there then comes another issue with making hook perks work with cages: BBQ and Chili. Cages spawn as far away as possible, which is usually further than 40m away. The caging animation takes 3 seconds, and so you'd be able to see that survivor's aura for a second, which is enough time to know exactly where the cage is, head over, and tunnel.

    The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is that the cages will move around randomly every 20 seconds. It will spawn as far away as possible, as is usual, however every 20 seconds will move to a completely random location that it's possible for a cage to spawn, pausing the timer as it moves (3 seconds to fall into the ground, 3 seconds to rise out in a different location).

    Alternatively the Entity could prevent you from hooking a survivor if they've been rescued from a cage and no hook, unhook, cage, or rescue actions have taken place since. This could make sense lore-wise too, as explained in this video it's likely Pyramid Head appears in the form he does to the Entity to punish it until it realises what it's doing is wrong (as he does to James, at which point it yeets itself). The Entity would fight back from making the survivors too hopeless by allowing them to tunnel relentlessly, as it feeds on their hope through the hooks. However obviously this becomes very exploitable, so it's not really the best solution either.

    However if you are going to change his tunnel potential he does need to be buffed in other ways. A speed boost when walking through pre-set trails, or maybe POTD becomes wider & longer. And applies torment upon a successful hit. I'm not sure.

  • CrypticghoulCrypticghoul Member Posts: 504
    edited February 2021

    I'd like to see him more incentivized to just use his cages in the first place rather than hook tbh. As it stands right now, they're very situational due to sending them across the map, usually right into another survivor's arms for an instant save, and they don't activate BBQ/Pop.

    A slew of changes I think would be cool include hooking removing torment, torment being applied by POTD (with a grace period of immunity to it off hook maybe?), cages activating hook perks, and cages trying to pick a spot where any given player is not currently located. Or just have it pick a random hook to send them next to.

    Or they could have fun with it and make the survivors have to find a key to get someone out of a cage. That way sending them far away to another survivor doesn't matter so much.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    Torment survivors after Potd attacks? Improved range? Torme not doesn’t get removed from the unhooker?

    Not like he’d be terrible as many PH’s who don’t tunnel still do really well

  • Hektic3000Hektic3000 Member Posts: 631

    Pyramid Head is fine the way he is honestly. Can he get survivors out of the game quickly, yes he can and that's a perk for using that killer. Making typical hook perks affect his cages just invalidates his cages and makes them no different than hooks. Nobody says anything when a Tombstone Myers can straight up kill you without interacting with you the whole game aside from catching you once.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    actually quite a few people think tombstone piece is incredibly unhealthy and should be changed. judith's is better because of the downsides to it but piece is... yeah people complain about myers.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 9,297
    edited February 2021

    There's nothing wrong with his cages. If anything his Torment needs to be improved and applied on his ranged attack.

    His ranged attack needs to be worse for locked animation hits but better for prediction and out of LoS hits. IE you're getting hit from outplays instead of pseudo lose/lose scenarios.

    It's basically the last change they made to him, it just wasn't far enough in either direction.

  • Hektic3000Hektic3000 Member Posts: 631

    I mean people will complain about anything but what Im getting at is that PH has been nerfed a few times since release, nerfing him more isn't the answer. Myers on the other hand has the option to kill in the form of 2 add-ons but seems like BHVR is just fine with that interaction seeing as they haven't changed it once since his release.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    Twice; once it I think hotfix 4.0.1 when he lost the ability to see his cages and once in 4.4.0, though this could be argued either way. He lost his ability to zone with M2 as easily however got his cooldown of POTD reduced by 0.5s, which doesn't sound like much but in practice it definitely was/is.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    And it’s not like his chase is any worse it’s just actually fair. A good PH will still hit most of their Potd and get rewarded with the smaller cooldown

  • Is his tunneling potential really that good though?

    Consider this:

    His "tunneling" is only good because he can avoid DS. If a survivor does not have DS, then any killer can tunnel just as easily. Hit them the moment they're unhooked and then re-hook them. This is arguably stronger since then you can watch the hook again waiting for a second tunnel, whereas PH has to send them to the other side of the map and a quick rescue can leave that survivor time to sneak away and hide before you cross over there after the notification.

    So it's not so much tunnel potential because if a survivor does not have DS, especially in a no-ds game where there is no obsession, then any killer can tunnel just as hard. The real complaint with PH is that he counters one very specific perk in the game. In order to do this he loses access to powerful meta killer perks like Pop remember so it's not like it's a net positive.

    After the DS changes next patch I imagine less survivors will bring the perk anyway.

  • No he definitely handed over a good chunk of control to the survivor in certain situations. Also the "good PH will hit most of their POTD" is bs. I hit 3 dead on yesterday and none of them counted, latency I guess but it's sad to see that the biggest frustration with POTD hasn't been addressed. The hitbox is so thin and any bit of latency throws it off completely. I felt completely cheated when I saw the survivor clearly inside the zone.

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    All killers with ranged attacks suffer from latency but if it makes you feel better at least we all suffer together as survivors have it just as bad:)

    tbf though he had too much control in a chase to a point where every window and pallet was a free hit if you knew what you were doing which was absurd. He’s in a much better spot now and you even get rewarded more for the hits you do land

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    As a good pyramid head who consistently hits their shots, the "a good PH will hit most of their POTD" is not bs you're just bad

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 8,655

    If you show them a clip they might come around but from my limited experience playing pyramid head( Only a couple of matches) I only noticed one latency hit but compared to plague and slinger that’s nothing

    Also what’s wrong with what they said anyway? If you are a good PH similar to a good huntress or slinger you’ll rarely miss shots

  • Volfgang57Volfgang57 Member Posts: 369

    With his ranged attack you also have to take into account the fact that the "beam" doesn't hit all at once. It's a wave. So a survivor can be in the "beam" towards the end and still escape it because the wave hasn't propagated to them yet. The spikes coming out of the ground aren't just a visual, it shows where the "damage active" part of the attack actually is. I usually offset my ranged attack sometimes because most survivors will anticipate it at pallets and such. So they'll dodge where the attack would normally be into my offset attack and I land hits. Equipping "I'm All Ears" also helps a ton with x-ray hits

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486
    edited February 2021

    I play on sub-80 and experience no issues with his power. Maybe you just need to get a better connection at this point.

    And before you even try to say I don't know what I'm talking about, and tell me I'm lying,

    Trust me, I do.

    Post edited by MandyTalk on
  • SilentHillOnDvDSilentHillOnDvD Member Posts: 487

    Against bad players yea you can hit every shot. But against good players, they start being unpredictable

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    You are saying that like I don't main him.

    That doesn't stop me managing to consistently hit the shots that I go for, though, because I look at how they play and react and adjust my playstyle accordingly. Very few players have been able to dodge the majority of the shots I go for.

  • The prestige 3 cosmetics have convinced me dude.

    Maybe you need to stop being so toxic and antagonistic? everybody complains about latency in this game, I mean it's like the NUMBER ONE thing survivors complain about is latency hits at pallets, but sure lets pretend it's just me. My connection is perfectly adequate but when the game matches you against people from all over Europe and even some players from regions like the middle east and north africa it's not surprising that some hits aren't perfect.

    Maybe you just need to stop lying and arguing for the sake of it and accept that latency is a thing? it takes time for data to get from A to B and in case you didn't know this Europe is actually quite a very large continent.

  • Nah this guy has prestige 3 cosmetics so you KNOW he's the real deal. 360 no scopes every POTD attack.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 4,165

    Long time no see. Hope you're doing well.

    @ topic: I wonder what Pyramid would be like if cages were to allow perk activations. Would be a major buff to survivors due to Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike etc. which is a big point of using the cages but I would take the change if the devs made it so successful POTD hits applied tormented status.

    If survivors can use DS and Borrowed Time despite cages let me use the cages more often throughout a match at least.

  • Quite the contrary, bad internet actually benefits you in games these days. Hence why a lot of players in games lagswitch and use VPNs to play other regions.

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