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Decisive Strike perk change

Ladies and gentlemen, bois and gurls, they did it.


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Comments

  • NoOneKnowsNovaNoOneKnowsNova Member Posts: 2,286

    Solos need a ton of changes, but I really hope this small one comes as it's a step in the right direction.

  • DawnMadDawnMad Member Posts: 1,030

    I doubt this will reduce the perks usage at all because it still is the only protection survivors have against tunneling, but a very welcome change indeed.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    Well the nerfs were kind of brute-strengethed into there. What if you want to stop a generator from regressing after you're unhooked? What if you get slugged for 60 seconds? What if the killer is on the other side of the map so you stop to heal, because what are you supposed to do, just sit there and wait to be slugged?

    Sure, it sounds good on paper and appeased the rag-tag band of nerf DS ideologues, but it just lacks nuance and subtlety. It not only has cut down on DS' second chance capacity, but also its anti-tunnel capacity. It's just too situational, and for no good reason, to even be considered using.

  • How long before it gets its first buff?

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,942

    Sorry, but I think the majority know that if you touch a gen then your not being tunneled, and gen tapping is stupid anyhow with current base regression how it is so an indirect nerf to that is always welcome.

    The slugged part I agree with,maybe make the timer freeze if your slugged, but your slugged timmer (before dying on ground) goes two times as fast.

    This would mean they have to wait out two mins or come back for you repeatedly (same time as a hook, without the hook states).

    It's not abusable anymore, putting a timer on how long it takes for you to be on a gen would mean that people would go back to gen tapping again every 4s if it was 5s intervals to keep D's.

    And if you made it so the timer stopped it's now a reason to 4 man slug to death.

    It's situational to stop it being abused, and still has the capability to be forced (lockers) or to stop real tunneling.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    I mean tapping a gen to stop it from regressing, not work on it. I said stop regression, not plot down and work on it.

    Even then, DS isn't total immunity unless you're in a locker, which this nerf failed to address in the first place. Slugging is still a very fun experience, which has not been addressed at all this entire nerf. Instead, they remove any agency of the survivor and demand that they literally do nothing and just wait to be slugged.

  • supersonic853supersonic853 Member Posts: 4,255
    edited March 2021

    I mean tapping is by definition working isnt it? It adds progress doesn't it? Even then again stopping regression is proving to the perk "yeah this guys fine deactivate"

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    The discussion whether or not tapping a gen is stupid or not is a moot point. Not only gen-tapping though, if you feel you are in the clear and start healing, but the killer comes back, you're screwed again. It requires that you literally do nothing.

    It was never abusable. DS is a second-chance perk, that just happens to require you to be tunneled or otherwise. It's not, it will never be (with its current setup), and it should never be an anti-tunnel perk. Not only can you completely play around it by slugging, but if you're in chase the timer still goes down. It still is completely vulnerable to slugging, wearing out while in chase, and now has the added middle finger of you can't do anything and have to wait for the killer to come and slug you. It's not just bad, it's absolutely worthless. The killer can just ignore you (or pretend to), and you have to make the choice between 1) doing absolutely nothing for 60 seconds just to get slugged or 2) working on a gen, losing the entire perk, and opening yourself up to being tunneled down again.

  • ZixologyZixology Member Posts: 1,062

    Cool! They nerfed We'll Make It!

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843
    edited March 2021

    Don't be pedantic. The point of tapping isn't to add the menial .5% to the generator, it's to stop it from regressing. You aren't working on a gen in the killer's face (which was never an issue, just slug for god's sake). And that's the issue. The nerf completely fails to address the actual issues with DS, not inconsiderable among which were slugging, long chases, and lockers to an extent, but instead offers meaningless and useless nerfs with no direction to appease the mob of "DS bad."

    Just because you start healing doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you tap a gen doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you're being slugged doesn't mean you haven't been tunneled. Just because you can loop well doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you unhook another survivor in basement doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you found a totem doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. And beyond all, just because this perk tries to mutilate DS into the bloody approximation of an anti-tunnel perk doesn't mean DS should be an anti-tunnel perk. It's a second chance, for god's sake.

  • supersonic853supersonic853 Member Posts: 4,255
    edited March 2021

    Um slugging didnt work if survivors did gens in your face then jump into a locker. Or run unbreakable. Or sprint burst away. "Never abusable" it was one of the best perks for 4 years along side unbreakable. Survivors could hook trade with it say they get unhooked run to a nearby hooked survivor unhook them and now that survivor has borrowed time. You down the unhooker slug them and they just get up later either by being tapped by a teammate or unbreakable.

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,749

    Eh, I think there could be better options to choose from than to add a base obsession.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843
    edited March 2021

    Lockers are one case (hint hint, they failed to address that in the nerf). Every other situation, even a gen, you would lunge at them. It's not that hard.

    Unbreakable can solve slugging yes (just once), but sprint burst isn't even related to slugging. You can't sprintburst away a slug.

    Just because it's a good perk doesn't mean it's automatically abusable. DS was a ludicrously good second chance perk, yes, and that was the full intention. It literally said in the description, "You get a second chance and a 5 second stun lol under conditions x y and z." It's not that difficult to understand.

    And, hooking multiple survivors and starting a chain of unhooking can be frustrating yes, but it's not game breaking. The only situation that would happen is if you're in close proximity to said hooks (perhaps, basement camping), and even then, you can still be tunneled after saving a survivor from the hook. You can unhook in chase, big surprise.

    Moreover, the topic at hand was that this nerf was awful, not how strong DS was before. Let's try to stick to that.

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    Hey, DS users, you're going to be fine.

  • csandman1977csandman1977 Member Posts: 2,285

    The counter to DS remains the same. Slugging. It has and most likely always will be the counter.

    The rework did make the perk weaker yes. However it makes it way more fair.

    I kind of agree about the anti-tunnel perk. And really, if a killer wants you out of a game, there isn't a perk available that will save you. If a killer is hell bent on tunneling you, neither this version of DS nor any other version of DS is going to stop him.

    Now as far as old DS, the killer had zero choice but to slug or eat the stun or allow 60 seconds of gen progression.

    Now the killer can choose to slug or eat the stun. It is up to the survivor to decide whether or not to commit to a gen in the killer's face or avoid it.

    This change is an indirect nerf to gen speeds without actually making them longer. It forces the survivors off the gens to heal or look for another generator.

    Going to ignore the gen tapping. That is a whole seperate topic.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,942

    You said what if I want to stop a gen regressing mid chase. How is that not gen tapping.

    I agree on the healing point, the healing yourself (not others) clause should be removed.

    Saying it was not abusable is BS, everyone accepts that survivors jumping on a gen and then hiding in a locker with Ds up was stupid and abusable. Your no longer being tunneled if your on a gen.

    Did you not read what I said? I talked about how to counter the slugging thing.

    It should never be an anti-tunnel perk? Then you want an anti-momentum perk? Like old ruin undying? Because that was an anti momentum perk too.

    Wearing out while in a chase is a silly point, if a killer is tunneling that's gonna last about 20s tops unless they sucked at defending you as tunneling usually involves patrolling too.

    The killer can't just pretend to ignore you, and if you get healed up by someone else and then jump on a gen your free game. If the killer "pretends to ignore you" then lose him with scratch marks and stealth. It's not difficult. Also if they are doing this then your team should be pumping out gens, in which case you've won the game for them. Be happy the killer has lost.

    If your on a gen your not being tunneled, especially if your full health. You have chosen to progress the game, so you deserve to have some risk reward to sitting on a gen injured. And if your not injured loop them. You can waste (if your a good survivor) 60s in a chase of two hits maybe longer. Again you've basically won the game for you team unless they sucks and therefore do not deserve to win. It's a 4v1 game, and if your team isn't gonna do stuff then you deserve to lose (as it's balanced around all survivors being semi-competent).

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 7,706

    You will still get hit by it.

  • CrypticghoulCrypticghoul Member Posts: 539

    This is not true. The killer could be returning to the hook and tapping is just that, a quick tap of the button before moving on.

    *Not saying that I disagree with it turning off after a gen tap, I just disagree with this statement

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    Remove DS and use prove thyself.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    I'm saying it's gen tapping, I'm not sure where the confusion is.

    The point of DS is to be a second chance. Jumping in a locker to force a grab is fully the intention of the perk; you're supposed to have nifty tricks to force pickups to prevent slugging.

    Did you not read what I said? Unbreakable is one activation and two perks to a situational slugging is not good efficiency. You're sacrificing one perk slot in the off chance that the other doesn't work.

    And as I've said before, it's a second chance perk. If you are unfortunate enough to remember old DS, it's always been a second chance in all of its iterations. Plus, even if it was an anti-tunnel perk, it would be a pretty god-awful one at that. Tunneling is more nuanced than touch a gen=no longer being tunneled. And survivors who can loop well are going to have chases a lot longer than 20 seconds, especially if the killer is so bad that they need to tunnel.

    You are heavily misunderstanding what is meant by "pretending to ignore you." The killer chases after another guy, and then is free to return once you touch a gen, start healing, or literally do anything that moves the game along. It forces you into an awkward position of do I actually go do something, or do I literally just sit around and wait to be tunneled to get any use out of this. Most cases, it's the first option.

    And I'm not so sure what's so hard to understand about this; tapping a gen is not significant of you not being tunneled. Neither is it the case if the killer is on the other side of the map, you think you're in the clear, you go do an objective, only to have the killer come back and tunnel the ever loving crap out of you, even when other survivors are buzzing in to try to body block. The scenario you describe is only if you get tunneled off of the hook, which is such a rare occasion that it might as well be base kit. It's more subtle than just one scenario.

    And as for "wasting 60 seconds in chase," what do you think tunneling is? Tunneling is specifically going after one survivor over all other survivors. If a killer is going to hard tunnel, which I have in the past many times, they are not going to be fazed by the prospect of a measly 5 second stun or slugging for 60 seconds, after the time deducted during the actual chase.

    Just because it's a 4v1 doesn't mean you're in the ideal situation. There may as well be multiple survivors on hooks or slugged, and the game is not supposed to be balanced around perfect efficiency. Why do you think people complain about SWF so much?

    And after all of that, the issue still remains that DS is not an anti-tunnel perk, and even by that approximation it's a terrible, terrible anti-tunnel perk. So now, it's just stuck in employment limbo trying to find a niche. Not only will a 5 second stun not put off a hard-tunneler off of the hook, but it only activates when you are tunneled straight off of the hook. If you do anything else, whether healing, tapping a gen, or just doing an objective because you think the killer is preoccupied, you've lost your protection immediately and the killer is free to tunnel the hell out of you. Talk about abuse, when now all the killer has to do is get the survivor to an objective and they have free reign to tunnel without worrying about DS. Doesn't sound very anti-tunnel to me.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    I agree with all of what you said; but I don't think think that speaks to the merit of the actual perk itself. DS is now more dysfunctional than ever; slugging, long chases, and lockers are still in place, but now you have to juggle the possibility of giving up your only protection against tunneling at the cost of moving forward the game, based off of incomplete information. It puts you in the tough spot of choosing to preserve your DS in the off chance that you get tunneled, or actually doing a generator like a functioning member of society, all when you don't know what the killer will do, where they are, and who they'll go for.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    People tap gens while in chases. Especially if the gen is at a loop (T&L's, jungle gyms, pallet gyms, etc. etc. etc.). It's not that hard to imagine.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,942

    Misread the first bit, thought you said what the hell does gen tapping have to do with it.

    A chase usually doesn't extend until the first hit. That extra distance to position is what makes good loopers better than mediocre loopers. If your just of hook you don't have that. So yes, the chases are abnormally short.

    If the killer switches targets, great. You heal up and get things done because he's not on your back. I don't get how stealth is this difficult unless your a meg in neon clothing.

    If you can tap a gen, then your giving up distance in a chase. You should not be able to force the killer to either lose all the regression he's getting on a gen with 1s of an animation to his 4s, and still say that's not significant. Also, if we implemented a timer (5s on a gen) then people would just go on and off gens, meaning that it would never deactivate and we'd be in the issue we had before. I don't think you can give a reasonable suggestion that will stop that. So this is the better of the options.

    Even here, you say "tunneling is going after one survivor over the others" so you can't pretend to ignore you by going after someone else and then go for the person as by your own definition your not being tunneled then.

    I don't think you read my post fully. In it I detailed how a freeze to ds timer but lessen the time it takes to die from being slugged by 1 min or something to balance it when being slugged. This would make tunneling with Ds and then slugging that much more punishing. I think that would be ok.

    I disagree (as I have to state this again) with the healing yourself column of it, I believe a survivor should be able to heal themselves with it still being up. You seem, with your arguments, to be one of the reasons this perk had to be changed. You cannot sit on a gen with protection. That's stupid. End of. Being able to progress your objective whilst the killer can't theirs is ridiculous. So whilst healing is wrong, gens and totems (getting rid of a devour hope fully stacked with Ds) are both massive for you. So doing them whilst having protection are not ok. " All the killer has to do is get a survivor to an objective" well don't do an objective if he's near, you have control over what you do during the match. He's not forcing you to do a gen whilst he's scouring you like a hawk you can sit by a gen and wait, and if he come up to you start the loop.


    All throughout your posts your making it seem as if your entitled to a free shield whilst doing a gen, which would make Ds an anti-momentum perk. As it's ruining the killers momentum (not being able to pick you up and hook you and keep the pressure on) which is what your advocating for. This is on the same level as ruin undying pre nerf. Both anti-momentum perks. Both weren't good for the game. Both nerfed.

    If you want old ruin undying back that's fine, but you can't have one without the other bud. Survivors can't have anti momentum perks and then scream for the killers version to be nerfed. That's not how that works.

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    “Being able to progress your objective whilst the killer can't theirs is ridiculous”. this is what I feel when the killer slugs me, specially when we are only 2 survs left and he’s looking for the 4k

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