I hope you know rank means nothing. Who cares about a depip ? Aside from that. I'll take my 4k and blood points over a meaningless rank any day..More to the point..Again there is NO WAY to differentiate between the type of camping good killers do. And the type some [BAD WORD] do for the lulz..You can't punish good killers and wreck important parts in matchs. Just to punish a few dick bags.
Depip means you failed and lost the game not rank 4k means nothing if u depip u still got entity displeased and u'll hardly get 4k with camping my dude unless team is altruistic
You don't seem to be comprehending something...I'll try to rephrase. There is no way to tell camping that good killers do at important parts in the match. From the dick bags who do it for the lulz.
You can't punish good killers at important parts in a match. And ruin matchs. Just to punish the few who do it to make you mad. That is complete non sense
Nobody said to punish that (an endgame camp) that's fair and okay and as long as killers who do it whole match doesn't put some sense in themselves we will have this problem nothing we can do about it not anymore tho so yeah I agree in that matter with you
I'm not talking end game. Read my previous posts on the last page..Where camping was neccesary and saved me from even getting to end game
In my opinion camping is fair at endgame and if there's survs around the hook every other reason to camp for me is a dick move and that will remain like that we can agree to disagree because this discussion kzpt going since yesterday it's time to let it go
I'm glad you agree. I think it would be very good and no one gets frustrated, killer gets punished, I don't get punished because the killer decided to camp me
And yet he had to use sarcasm with "participation trophies so they feel better". If one got camped the whole match it is obvious that person shouldn't be punished. I guess 0 rank progression would only be fair.
The thing is, killers do get punished for camping. Take this match, for example:
Not the best screenshot out there, but that is me being camped by a Plague. Legacy Meg and Yun-Jin managed to save me, and in the end we all escaped.
If she hadn't camped me, she would've been able to win. There is punishment.
I agree, no point gained but no point lost.
There are already a number of in-game solutions to camping. No mechanical changes are necessary. Seriously, who said you are guaranteed to every get off a hook, or that rescues would be stress free? Why do you think Borrowed Time exists or the Styptic Agent? You should all know about protection hits, shoulder saves, and even taking a hook in tactical trade right? This game has been around since 2016; camping has likewise been around as a tactic since the start. Thousands upon thousands of Players have managed to deal with it; you can too. The reason Dead by Daylight is successful is it is centered on Player agency, i.e. we are not Bots but flesh and blood people who exercise choice over what we do in the game. Situations, just like life, are sometimes unfair and hard. Nobody enjoys their time on the hook, but sometimes you simply suck it up and buy as much time for your team as you can, knowing that you are going to probably die on that hook. Next time it might be someone else. Your team might even surprise you and yank you off safely right from under the nose of that Killer. It happens all the time.
Threads like this are a waste of time. If even 10% of the energy spent on whining, moaning, and groaning about Killer tactics on this forum was spent practicing solutions in game, we wouldn't even need to have this conversation.
'Thousands upon thousands of players have managed to deal with it'
But that doesn't mean they should. Bad mechanisms are bad mechanisms. Much like Warframe deleted so many aspects of its pet system because they were just grievances. Just because people dealt with it didn't mean they enjoyed it.
And if basically everyone is saying 'camping sucks', then camping is an issue from a game design perspective and should be addressed.
'Just rush gens' is nice in theory, but in execution in general play it still nets the killer 2 kills because there's not enough time in an uncoordinated team to do all five gens in two hookstates.
It should just be punished more heavily than it is. Slow down the hook while the killer is nearby and not in a chase. And before someone says 'they tried that and it got abused': The 'abuse' was forcing the killer not to camp. That's just using the system as intended; to prevent camping.
What do you not understand about "Player Agency?" Killers are Players too, just like you. They want the same options to make choices as anyone else. Artificial constraints which force them to play like the Ghosts in an old Pac Man game will simply cost us Killers. The game does not work without at least one Killer for every four Survivors. If you reduce them to having less agency than the Survivors, they simply won't play. I wouldn't blame them. The mechanics are fine. Survivors just need to step up and accept that there isn't going to be any Deus Ex Machina from the DEV to fix their problems for them. This is the game; if you don't enjoy it, you know where the door is located.
I play both Survivor and Killer in equal measure. I manage, playing SOLO I might add, to escape more often than I die on the hook. I have the same probability of running into the niche Killer tactics we are discussing as anyone else. I am, by no means, an awesome Survivor. So if I can manage and get by with a little help from my friends in the match, so can you (and everyone else). After five years, the DEV repeatedly stating those tactics are valid and aren't changing, and countless people managing to get by just fine, I think it is time to accept the obvious and tackle the problem in the ONLY productive manner. YOU are the only part of this equation you have power over. Thus, YOU are the one who will have to find solutions in the match.
Here's a question for you: Why are things getting buffed or nerfed, instead of everyone 'just dealing with it'?
Everything in the game has some margin of possible change. I mean, look at all the complaints about keys. Couldn't we just tell killers to suck it up, too, and just 'deal with it'?
You can keep pointing to the game's history, but that is meaningless. An old problem is still a problem. You can point to the devs' stance, but that, too, is meaningless. They are not infallible.
Ultimately, what matters is whether or not camping is good for the game, and pretty much everyone says it's not, even those opposed to changing it. You're the first person I've seen make an actual argument about it, and I don't think it's a particularly strong one, since there's nothing that says that this couldn't be paired with other changes that improve the overall killer experience.
Camping is legitimately the worst thing DBD has on offer, and there's no one that actually enjoys it. So it's only natural that people start to think about discouraging it more.
There is a difference between buffing, debuffing, and reworking Add-on(s) and Perks. You still have Player Agency, i.e. a CHOICE, to choose said things or leave them off. Artificial mechanics which strictly regulate how Players can function in the game remove Player Agency entirely. These are apples an oranges. If you remove agency, you lose Players; it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man. Choice, or at least an illusion of it, has to exist to keep the interest of any Player in any game. What you fail to understand is that the DEV tested all sorts of things over the years and came to the same conclusion over and over again. Not only will Survivors immediately abuse any artificial constraint placed on Killers, but Players simply opt out of playing Killer when they realize they have little in the way of choices to make. When it comes to "chase" games there are far better ones than DbD. What makes this game unique is PLAYER AGENCY and the unpredictable (and sometimes unfair) nature of it.
So let me lay it out for you again:
So unless you find an ENTIRELY NEW WAY to rebuild DbD from the ground up to provide Killers new, alternate choices besides running around like mindless Bots in chases with zero tactics to apply, these biased (dare I say tunnel-vision) constraints are DOA. Players who take on the role of Killers expect AND DESERVE exactly the same agency as those playing Survivor.
Just to be clear what are the camped survivors supposed to do while the others are doing gens.......nothing, oh how fun.
Tell you what though if your ok with saying just avoid failures then let's have the killers speeds reduced to match survivors or survivors increased to match match killers.
if you did that I'm ok with saying then just don't get caught becuase when two equally skilled players are playing against each other the survivor woukd have an actual chance to avoid the failure state.
Because as the game is currently designed the killer will win the chase in if they are both similarly skilled because the killer is faster. Funny I doubt you'd be ok with that probably some excuse about how it was intended that killers would catch survivors, then hook them, then go after another survivor, right?
You can and the devs have. Look at ds it was nerfed becuase some people were abusing it so everyone got it nerfed there's nothing wrong with that.
Sort of like speed limits yes you could safely drive faster than the speed limit but there's a few morons out there that ruin it for everyone.
Why do you people post with absolutely no understanding of the game? Did you not learn the lesson that it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt? Killers (some anyway) are faster because there are FOUR Survivors. The game expects you to get hit, downed, and put on that hook. You are expected to have to work as a team to overcome the Killer's brute force.
Just to be clear without camping slugging tunneling herding and moris the killers are Bots, man it sure is a good thing that they didn't miss one, could you imagine what would have happened if they didn't have mori in the game then no one would play killer right. Wait does that mean every match where the killer doesn't offer a mori he's suffering through being a bot? Do you ever play without a mori offering?
Man thay would be terrible, it's either that or you entire argument was bs and you just Wana camp because it's a crutch you rely on.
Unless again maybe your going to say we'll it's OK to loose one of those things and still play....but then camping was one of those things....so I guess your ok with removing camping as an option as long as the others are left in right? Or was your entire argument something you don't actually believe in and just hoping to keep camping in cause you rely on it so much?
.......Did you REALLY just tell me they can differentiate between camping that is needed...And people who are doing it to be dicks....By comparing it to DS....? Seriously my guy. Please think your arguments through. DS was a simple fix "if you yourself do anything yourself to progress the game. It's deactivated"
Now go ahead and tell me how they can differentiate between camping situations. That doesn't involve "just being in chase" And how they can tell when the killer feels it's neccesary
What the people making, or agreeing with, these 'punish camping' threads fail to realize (or actively ignore) is that there's VALID REASONS TO CAMP.
Instead, they see 'Camping = bad' and 'This punishes what I hate' and stop there. That's all they care about. Some of the people here even said 'This makes the Killer stop camping, and that's all I want'.
Player agency? Nope!
Killer's tactics? Naw!
Killer's enjoyment? Hell no!
All they want is ALL CAMPING PUNISHED. It does not matter if you needed to camp to slow down generators. Or if Survivors are hiding nearby. Or if Survivors are going for an unsafe unhook.
All they want is for Killers to be forced away from the hook so they can get easy saves. They don't want to deal with knowing when to unhook or when to do gens. They want every unhook to succeed.
And to do that, they need draconian, over-the-top punishments on Killers who dare to get in the way.
Hey look at that you posted exactly as I said you would about how survovs are supposed to get caught etc.
but if that was the case then Bubba was intended to not just sit infornt of the hook waiting for thr game to end. And I guess you and other killers can't just use the well just don't get caught argument to justify camping as survivors are supposed to get caught during a match. Multiple times it seems.
Man that whole not removing all doubt by speaking up must be hard on you i take it?
No, I said it isn't anyone's place but the Killer to decide what they are going to do. If they Camp for a reason, that is their choice. If they Camp to be a jerk, that is likewise their choice. What I'm saying is that even when Perks and Add-on(s) are changed, Players still have the CHOICE to take them or not. Artificial mechanics inserted into the game take away Player agency. The are not the same thing.
You might of responded to the wrong post
Actually, Bubba was designed with exactly that in mind. That is why his chainsaw is designed to hit multiple Survivors. There is a reason Insidious exists and is in the game. There is a reason the basement has those convenient places to stand where you can't be seen. If you look at the evidence, the DEV have actually designed a lot of the options you are complaining about right into the game. Has it ever occurred to you that Hooks tend to appear in places with convenient places to hide, or on top of hills where access bottlenecks? Again, I'm pointing out that the game not only condones Players making these choices, it has been designed to make them viable options. Choice is everything.
You have my apology, I absolutely did. I don't know why I thought you were talking to me.
No I didn't say they can differentiate. I said they can punish everyone for the actions of some of the group. Like some survivors abused ds so they changed it. Some people can drive so the made everyone follow speed limits and some killers do nothing but camp all day so they can address that to.
It was in reference to your point that boiled down to I don't abuse camping so don't take it away from me
Ok my guy. There's a difference between changing a perk that literally EVERYONE abused. And changing a BIG fundamental part of the game mechanics itself
No I think you stated quite clearly that without those selected options the killers were nothing more than Bots. Did you want to change your point on that then? Admit that losing one of those options would not reduce killer to Bots. If that wasn't what you intended by your post my apologies, here is your chance to clarify...
So, do you think losing one of those options would reduce killers to little more than Bots or not?
Yup want it removed. But tobanswer you question about player agency I'm curious did you have the same response to the ds nerf?
Was thay also bad because it removed player agency? Survivor tactics? Survivor enjoyment? So how I think you don't take issue with that almost as though your argument is bs and you really just want to keep camping cause it's your crutch. But hey correct me if I'm wrong, we're you or were you not opposed to all previous Survivor nerfs including ds?