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Another ScottJund Spirit Challenge - This time from a much better survivor.

Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598
edited May 2021 in General Discussions

Survivor Perspective:


Continuing from last discussion but with this survivor lasted over double the time on average per chase. This is mostly due to predropping safe pallets and forcing spirit to phase larger distances. Naturally, this takes longer to get the down. Note that when Spirit is in range to do a small phase where the survivor cannot get distance results in a hit almost certainly because Scott is using sounds correctly. This is what I call constant hit pressure. An issue in dbd where the killer can down survivors quickly regardless of survivor skill.

Point is this survivor played exponentially better than the last survivor and produces similar chase times (when in hit pressure - so besides the time wasted with predropping pallets and god setups). Some techniques that prove this:

  • Setting up fast vaults by taking the jungle gym wall wide and sprinting at the correct time running perpendicular to the window.
  • Very attentive camera control. Kept camera in LOS of spirit at all times that didn't require looking at terrain to take shortest pathing on tiles/loops.
  • Sidestepping when LOS has been broken to gain distance.

There's plenty more that made this survivor good but these were examples that the last challenger did not do which is imperative for high elo play.

Thanks to these content creators for uploading these clips. Very good stuff!

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Comments

  • Chilli_man2400Chilli_man2400 Member Posts: 2,378

    I don’t mean to live under a rock but can someone please explain what the spirit challenge is?

  • AVoiceOfReasonAVoiceOfReason Member Posts: 2,688

    There is only 10 pallets on the new maps. Most Spirits (at least I will) break those pallets immediately. Dead Hard was a really good play too. Still not a great counter since you're burning up pallets and no perk Spirit.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598
    edited May 2021

    Specifically it's just Scott doing this particular one to my knowledge.

    Otz started doing 1v1 challenges and it's gained popularity. Scott did it with players commenting to him that spirit has counterplay in chase. He challenges them to a 1v1. Makes a good video.

    Yes I do think if it was a 1v4 his team would of lost after the deadzones created but I suppose from his perspective it's a 1v1 situation and it was only going to up his chase time. He wasn't claiming predropping every pallet to counter spirit, just wanted to do the challenge I'm guessing.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598
    edited May 2021

    You're 100% right. I tried to include that in the original post. The way I analysed this was to remove any chase time gained predropping pallets comparing to the previous survivor. This survivor had very good micro regardless given it's a spirit 1v1.

    Not sure if you mean motion sickness cos of his camera management but understand it's how he takes good pathing while also keeping vision of the killer.

    Yeah I kind of wish people were conservative with map resources in a 1v1 because you're right to say 40 seconds in each of his chases were bought regardless of his skill predropping pallets. This post was a reflection that he was lasting the same amount of time as the previous contender even though he is evidently good at survivor which I tried to dot point some techniques he was doing above.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 7,129

    Because there really isn't anything you can do vs spirit. Just bend over and get #########. There's 0 counter play

  • AVoiceOfReasonAVoiceOfReason Member Posts: 2,688

    That is sound reasoning but I'm waiting for people to say, "AY! SEE! Counters!" XD

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    I'm not discounting the skill of Scott at all. He's solid. He shouldn't win every game on spirit though. Watch his spirit streams. He goes against countless teams of good survivors that still lose. That's discounting survivor skill isn't it? A good player can have a higher winrate than others but nobody should claim a winrate like Dowsey of 95% on spirit. That isn't PvP.

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,416

    Hiron played pretty well, but I'm still not convinced.

  • odraodra Member Posts: 369

    ah you see, backtracking didnt work feint didnt work, what works is run as fast as you can and drop the pallet, sorry but this also works for the other killer, the difference is you may lost the killer while with spirit you only prolong the chase

  • odraodra Member Posts: 369

    not to said that this will only work for 1st chase after that pallet already dropped, 2nd down would be much faster after there's no pallet which is real situation on real gameplay

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598
    • I didn't even know he was a tournament player. I just watched the gameplay and said he was good. Thanks for peace of mind
    • Yes he was and on purpose to give best case scenario for the survivor.
    • I wish he played it like he was saving pallets for the 1v4. Zubat dropped pallets like they were hot against Otz' addonless/powerless trapper. I really want to see good survs be conservative with pallets in these 1v4's but I digress.
    • Not every pallet but you can tell he's guessing when he's taking hits after predropping and spirit phases. You watch from his perspective and there are no queues visual or audio for what he's doing. He might be imagining what Scott is going to do and act as if he's playing the spirit but that's still a guess.
    • I know but Hiron's movement was so much better than his last challenger. I'm sure he was caught by surprise and the clips do show the visual/audio cues he missed in his blunders. He even made a pallet kick error.
    • Yeah these times were inflated from predropping valuable pallets.That's why I said if you subtract the time bought with predropping he didn't last any longer than the inexperienced survivor Scott challenged before.
  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,633

    i mean, a majority of the Spirit counterplay relies on the fact that the Survivor runs Iron Will and the Spirit doesnt run Stridor.

    that there is no counterplay any time one of those two requirements isnt met is pretty common knowledge, so him proving that there is no counterplay when the Survivor isnt allowed to run Iron Will basically just shows something everyone (at least a vast majority of people) already agreed uppon.


    thats why my change for Spirit would be to deafen her for grunts of pain and instead replace them with normal breathing, aswell as immediately cutting the chase music once she starts to phase.

    that way we get rid of the annoying perk reliance, Stridor wouldnt be OP on her (while also not being useless) and the stand still "mindgame" is much harder to do.

    do that and fix footstep sounds for both sides and i think she could be a really fun Killer to go up against.

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 3,131

    That is a good way to put it. It's not PVP in this game due to how unbalanced the game is in favor of killer. It's more like "pick killer and always win". Scott is a killer main and thinks Spirit is overpowered which says a lot. It still doesn't stop with Spirit, most killers are overpowered because survivors are simply weak as hell. If you ever watch Scott or any of the other killer main stream, they literally never lose and that doesn't look good for DBD.

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 5,119

    Those moment of pre-drop pallets and vault back is just similar to you staying at a pallet and both side get 50/50 guess.

    He drop pallet on right side, then fast vault to left side and Spirit came on the right. He could've done the opposite and Spirit might also came on the left and the result is the same.

    Its all about lucky at 50/50. Lucky 50? You're able to reach to the next pallet and predrop it for another 50/50 game. Unlucky 50? Hooked.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,835
    edited May 2021

    If you don't pre-drop the pallet against Spirit, then Spirit stands at the pallet with her husk and deadzones you completely with her phase. That is the correct play. 59 seconds+hook time is 2 or 3 gens if people are actually working on them. Don't discount the chase times. Yes, he burned through resources. But people wanted to know how to play againsr a good Spirit and this is literally how you do it.

  • DeliciousFoodDeliciousFood Member Posts: 461
    edited May 2021

    Yeah it took a competitive player with full perks vs a yellow addon, perkless spirit to showcase some 'counter play'. Which was absolutely unreliable given the differences in performance between rounds. This is a competitive player that has mastered going against Spirits and Nurses with a gargantuan amount of hours to boot. And he still died in very short chases at times, and his longest ones involved human error from Scott or having very good pallets to pre-drop in a row. Props to Hiron, he did so some good plays, but it never felt consistent.


    Dropping every pallet on the map vs Spirit in 99% of the games, ending with 9 of them fried in the first minute and a half of the game, will spell the end for the team. Because almost never are your teammates as efficient as competitive squads, nor will they necessarily stay on gens when you pass by them during looping (because then any decent spirit can get an easy grab).


    There is no counter play to a spirit in any REGULAR match. It's absolutely unreasonable to expect the average DBD player to adapt to such a monstrosity as competitive player like Hiron would (and even then comes out iffy). I'm convinced those that still defend her either are perpetually in low ranks or are downright lying for whatever reason.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    Exactly what I have been arguing here for a while now.

    The players, the setup and the map made for a real interesting video. Really enjoyed it.

  • Leachy_JrLeachy_Jr Member Posts: 1,922

    Hey now this can be used to show the frustrations of versing spirit.

    If both sides didn't make the odd 1 or 2 mistakes (such as the double vault and the bad phase) and it was down to raw guesses the chase time would be around the same time. However I assume we aren't gonna get a perfect survivor and scott playing perfectly against them any time soon.

  • Leachy_JrLeachy_Jr Member Posts: 1,922

    The dropped pallets were much more than a 50/50, probably more favoured to scott especially if he had duration add ons or better add ons in general.

    Also, do you know how much 58 seconds is for a killer whos primary power is chase ability?

    You cannot say "a mere 58 seconds" when games end in 5 minutes. 58 seconds is a LONG time in DBD.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    If this was a 1v4 naturally the chases to follow will not be 58 seconds. Unfortunately lots of people focused on the predropped pallets and not the pertinent problem which is take away the pallets, inexperienced survivor and tournament level survivor lasted similar times.

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