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Dead hard is the literal definition of a Crutch Perk

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  • xEzekanarioXxEzekanarioX Member Posts: 378

    15 seconds without taking a hit? Thats rare those days, you would be impressed

  • feechimafeechima Member Posts: 788
    edited July 2021

    Disagree with a perk being valued by what you have to do to earn it. Fire up, Bitter Murmur, Tinkerer, Rancor, Lethal Pursuer, Corrupt Intervention are all perks that value the killer with zero input or effort from the player aside from adding it to their build. Survivors have a ton of these perks also, but only DH is being talked about. On these forums the community is just steadily going after every useful perk on either side. It's ridiculous. This perk makes it harder for me to win? Nerf it.

    Post edited by feechima on
  • TattooJakeTattooJake Member Posts: 158

    You literally just countered your own argument both instances you gave you would have downed the player if you would have just....... waited it out.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    Just because of :

    It not being used correctly in a lot of cases,

    Or,

    Dsync issues where the killer hits but the survivor doesn't see it.

    Doesn't degrade the theory behind the perk and how it can be used in some cases. If they made it not a dash but just I frames I would be fine, as then it can be baited.


    Also, yes, you can count who has it. I don't disagree. But what if everyone has it.

    The other perks require set up or management. All DH requires is for you to be injured. That's not setup before you pull that out. Set up requires you to perform a certain action e.g. pallet stun or vault.

    I don't disagree on the last point, but what if (and this is coming eventually) MMR pairs 4 similar skilled players together. That would mean it could be down to perks in the end. Correct?

    That would also mean that we should balance perks, as it is important. Otherwise, why would they balance anything? Please don't try and say this, as that line of thinking leads to "don't change anything as it's eventually down to skill". See how stupid it sounds?

  • Ink_EyesInk_Eyes Member Posts: 504

    If people are using it for distance then what if we take away the dash and simply gives you endurance status for like 3 seconds?

  • BananaBlooD95BananaBlooD95 Member Posts: 555

    "Doesn't degrade the theory behind the perk and how it can be used in some cases. If they made it not a dash but just I frames I would be fine, as then it can be baited."

    So without the .5 immunity frame you can bait it but with the immunity frame you can't? That's dishonest at best.

    You know what's the counter to DH? Don't lunge the moment you know you can hit and wait like 1s. There, unless he's right by a pallet or window you'll hit him regardless, heck if you play it well you might get a hit on the window vault animation or right as the survivor drop the pallet on your head.


    A well placed Lithe, Balance Landing or Sprint Burst can extend the chase by the same amount of time if not more. The only difference is it's not right in your face. The fact DH is right in your face is what make it feel worst.

  • GannTMGannTM Member Posts: 9,637

    These survivor mains saying “just bait it out” really make me laugh. I’m sorry to say but Dead Hard is a skill-less crutch that gives you a free health state. I know it hurts to hear but it’s just facts.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,618

    totems.


    now you: what do i, as the Killer, have to deal with someone using Dead Hard to extend their loops?

    And i am not referring to someone using DH do dodge a hit in a dead zone or anything like that, i mean someone looping me until they get greedy / fall for one of my mindgames and then pressing E to quickly get back to safety immediately.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    So, the issue with the perk is that when your in a loop and use it no matter if you try and bait it or not you cant do anything. Here if it's not used correctly and you bait it there's a chance you'll get a hit after the I frames. Maybe it's you whos debating in bad faith rather than me being disingenuous. Read what I say pal.

    "Unless there's a pallet and a window you'll hit him" THATS THE PROBLEM, IN A LOOP WITH A PALLET OR WINDOW YOU CANT BAIT IT AS IT DOESNT MATTER THEY WILL REACH THE LOOP EITHER WAY. HOW DAMN DISINGENUOUS CAN YOU ACTUALLY BE. THIS IS BAD FAITH ACTING TO THE EXTREME RIGHT HERE.

    The difference between the other perks and DH is they require set up (so a window vault or pallet stun) and don't give I frames. A huntress can still hit you mid sprint burst. But with sprint burst you can't run around the map all you want (otherwise it'll activate).

  • BananaBlooD95BananaBlooD95 Member Posts: 555

    Someone who have Lithe will just vault a pallet or window and go vroum vroum, what's the difference with DH? Also depending on who you play you can mitigate DH way more than any of the other exhaustion perk.


    Take cow tree on Rotten Fields. It's in a corner and if you force the survivor in the right direction with or without DH he won't make it to an other loop. Same can be said about other loops.


    Bubba doesn't struggle vs DH, Bamboozle a nearby window force a really fast pallet drop and voila you got a free down. With Clown, Bamboozle, force the pallet, speed boost on you, slow bottle on the survivor and he doesn't make it to an other loop. With Demo you can bait it but if you play it well you can Shred the pallet as soon as the survivor DH and drop it, so again it's a none issue with him. Deathsligner and other range killer doesn't struggle vs DH except maybe Huntress in some situation.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I think that Smash-Hit should give you a 2 second speed boost for throwing a pallet and 4 for stunning a killer.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I know, it's crazy. Different perks do different things! Nerf them all.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Ruin and Pop rely on the killer doing well, can also be countered.

    Tinkerer can be countered.

    NOED can be countered.

    Dead hard is a free second chance without counter in Loops.

    I also do not like Noed, but please stop the sluzzy like baiting. Its embaressing.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    Tinkerer cannot be countered, it actives at 70% no matter what, period. Also, dead hard isn’t going to do much if the survivor is injured two seconds into the chase. Most survivors use dead hard proactively, not reactively, extending loops, as using it for avoiding hits often ends up in being exhausted on the ground. I’m not even a dead hard user, but it sounds like you’re the one baiting.

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 7,300

    I don't think i-frames should exist in this game.

  • theplagggtheplaggg Member Posts: 264

    If you think any killer except maybe bubba can "counter" dead hard, you are playing a whole different game. You can use dh safely to reach a window or a pallet OR try to dodge a hit. Hitting a survivor 10 seconds after they used dh is not a "counter". Any player with decent skill will not deadhard into a deadzone.

    I think Sprint burst is the best exhaustion perk but dh is just the definition of crutch.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    "It can't be countered" isn't an argument. How do you counter Open Handed, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Plunders Instinct, Tinkerer, etc etc. Perks are meant to help a player, they don't exist so they can be countered?

    Also, how is Dead Hard a free second chance. You don't get an entire health state just because the killer missed you with an attack, lol. Also, it's not free, you have to spend endurance.

  • BardBard Member Posts: 657

    "Help you" can mean a lot of things.

    Smash Hit gives you a lot of extra value if you make an outplay.

    Bond lets you make informed decisions and avoid certain mistakes.

    Unbreakable lets you recover from a guaranteed loss if and only if the killer steps into its trap.

    Then there's Dead Hard.

    • Fuck up distance judgements in a loop?
    • ######### up distance judgements transitioning between tiles?
    • Get straight up outplayed at a tile?
    • Run into a dead end tile with multiple bear traps?

    Oh well. Press E. Despite how the chase should have ended right there, it now gets to go on for an extra 30-40 seconds because you were able to make it to that long wall jungle gym, cow tree, or other tile.

    Yes, you can bait it out, but that only works if the survivor is straight up using the perk wrong. If they're relying on being able to dead hard in the open, they're being stupid. You use this perk to guarantee you make it to a pallet/window when you shouldn't, and when used in this way it is a third health state that the killer can't do anything about.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Where's your data showing Dead Hard is extending chase times more than other exhaustion perks?

  • meatisadelicacymeatisadelicacy Member Posts: 1,920

    Do you have any idea how often Dead Hard just does not work? Seriously? If BBQ just flat out didn't work as often as DH fails survivors, killers mains would be rioting. It makes me laugh every time someone has a tantrum over DH when it works maybe 50% of the time if you're lucky.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,077

    @TheGannMan

    Just because someone disagrees with that opinion doesn’t mean they are a survivor main.

    I play killer 50% of my time on DBD, mostly 90% these days and you do learn to bait it out. Do you do that in every chase? No, of course not. But when you do bait it out, which means you didn’t swing and they thought you were going to, thus didn’t gain the initial distance they thought they were going to. That’s what baiting it out means, and it is a strat against it.

    The perk does what it’s suppose to do if the survivor has timed it well. I say that because many times survivors underestimate their distance and end up too far from a pallet or run into a wall.

    This has been my personal experience in red ranked trials. Quite frankly I would rather a thousand times face survivors with DH than a different perk like SB. A perk that has killed my pressure many times, due to its extremely safe design. Nothing better than having an injured survivor pop a gen in your face the middle of nowhere, while you have a stack of Pop that you can no longer use.

    In the appropriate scenarios many perks can become obnoxious.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    My god, there's an actual well reasoned person on these forums. You must have taken a wrong turn somewhere in the badlands!

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    Lithe requires set up and can't just be activated at will, plus it requires resource management (not vaulting until necessary).

    DH requires none of these.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    The post I was replying to was someone saying that it's like the other exhaustion perks, i was explaining why it was different .

  • Lord_TonyLord_Tony Member Posts: 2,109

    it's worse with ranged killers.


    because I try to mind game them by pretending to shoot with deathslinger so I bait out their dead hard THEN shoot and I trigger an I frame.


    so they didn't dodge my attack, the attack physically touched them but they get to walk away because of an iframe.


    So which is it a dodge button or invincible button? It shouldn't be both.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,077
  • GrimoireWeissGrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,297

    I don't get this whole "no counterplay" thing. Perks are not supposed to have counterplay lol. How do you counter Fire Up? Just don't do gens?

    Dead Hard is supposed to give extra time in chase at the cost of a perk slot. Just like Ruin, Pop, Surge, Corrupt, etc are supposed to give free extra time for map pressure.

    I main killer and I never got frustrated against DH. I'd rather have 4 DHs than 4 SBs. Funny how this perk exists since 2017 but only now I see people complaining about it. DH used to be way stronger when maps actually had more safe loops.

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