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Survivors need more physical resources in a match



  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 670

    Nope. Game should favor Killers, if you're smart you'd realize that

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,522
    edited November 2021

    Bruh that video talked about how strong W key was as well and how its about to get stronger, along with all the other post and the other videos (first and last in particular break it down) I shared that are exclusively about W holding in the game at large being a meta strategy. It affect the vast majority of the killer cast way more than the new one. Any killer that's not Nurse, Blight, Artist, Spirit, and arguably 1 or 2 more Struggle with it.

    But no you want to nit pick at some of the surrounding content and pretend the rest didn't happen. Like ah yes, all of that is about the new killer, even the majority of it that's from before she even existed and doesn't mention her.

    "the amount of people who play the game and actually loop"

    Yes people like to loop, how does that change how strong running forward is? Especially against anti-loop killers. Whose ignoring them? Why are you ignoring them? If you want to try an loop the killer than go ahead, but don't try to make the argument that's all you can possibly do when you have a strong alternative. You might not like it but its there. If a killer is specifically an anti-loop killer than you're just shooting yourself in the foot by trying to loop them.

    "But it's nice to know what sort of person you are."

    What does that even mean? Yes I'm trying to educate you on the meta and the game. I guess that's bad now. Better leave people like you just spouting incorrect nonsense and not even open a dialog because how dare anyone insinuate their multiple uniformed statements possibly be incorrect.

    "Holding 'w' is not an option" incorrect

    "looping was intended as the way to escape" incorrect. Would have been better were that true, but its not. By extension the whole perspective argument was incorrect since it had a faulty basis.

    "holding 'w' is and option, after looping" mostly (2/3) incorrect and also contradicting you original point, you can hold W before, after, or without looping depending on the situation.

    "I could quote every comment that said that you are wrong, but that would just be a waste of time."

    I literally sent you multiple threads with a bunch of different people saying you're wrong on the first page alone and from the title post. Not just 2 from this 1 thread, but speaking of this thread here are some that mention it specifically:

    "Because that's really most of the problem with the hold "w" meta." First page.

    A little below my latest response and 3 above from yours someone else said " All you have to do is hold shift, W and A or D" and how its too strong unless they are playing Nurse, making M1 killers just unviable.

    said comments:

    You're covering your eyes and choosing to be ignorant and unreasonably stubborn at this point. You're ignoring the vast majority of the post. Over the conversation all together you have been strawmaning and eventually just devolving into trying to discredit my character instead of my argument.

    Rough order of the conversation in a "you // me" format:

    1. W isn't an option and looping was intended from the beginning // it is an option, a quite strong one at that and looping was not intended but its how people started playing due to the map design
    2. ok W is an option but only after looping, the killer is too fast and they don't need to turn, and go watch youtube and you'll see // actually you can do it at other times even without looping, the speed difference isn't big enough to counter it, they do slow down when they turn and the youtubers have stated they know its strong (thats actually how I found out js)
    3. I'm giving up, so many people have said you're wrong // actually it was only 2 including you afaik and here, I'll give you a bunch of supporting evidence including from youtube and the forums. If you want to bring up numbers, please look at that amount of people who actually agree with me. Please educate yourself on the topic.
    4. I cherry picked one part of one thing you sent me and pretended that was the whole thing, you're such a bad person for telling me I'm wrong and trying to show me how, my friends just let me be wrong and uneducated you should do the same. I will now insult you // this post

    People do not like the hold W meta, its boring and unskillful for both sides. But yeah lets ignore the problem because some survivor players can't even run in a straight line right and die instantly.

    Holding W is meta and is strong and is an option. Survivors don't need more resources since they have more than enough available to counter killers as well as alternatives. That doesn't mean you're going to like it, but they don't need it.

    If you were just uniformed then that's one thing but you're actively ignoring information.

    Heres another quick ~2 minuet video explaining it again.


    Post edited by MrPenguin on
  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    Then you would know that maps got reworked to remove those. So i have no idea why you're still denying the reworks.

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    The more people play, and the more better they get, the more the average 'skill' point gets. You shouldnt ever solely balance around a statistic that is impossible for the large majority to reach.

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    The same logic can be used against you. All you have to do is hold W and press M1..

    If you want a legit response, dont downplay the other side first.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    It is necessary to add a holy land where the aura of the survivors will be hidden and the killers on it will slow down

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,522
    edited November 2021

    You're not crazy, The map reworks weren't exactly always amazing. We have things like Badham and The Game, very safe maps.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,522
    edited November 2021

    "If you want a legit response, dont downplay the other side first."

    This I agree with

    " All you have to do is hold W and press M1.."

    This isn't viable against good survivors unfortunately, adding more resources would just exacerbate the problem unless you somehow make it only usable against anti-loop killers specifically. Even then you'd have killers who have anti-loop but still loses due to gen speeds and map size, so you'd be making killers who already don't usually win against a team that knows what to do even worse.

    Most maps are still currently too big and/or have to many resources for the vast majority of the killer roster. Survivors are still the power role, they don't need more resources at this time.

    Maps were reworked to take out literal infinites, but they also have a boatload of safe pallets and windows as well as structures you can loop for a very long time to the point its better to just not even attempt to as killer. So they still aren't where they need to be to start considering making them even stronger.

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    And I simply do not agree because we shouldn't be looking at one section of players.

    A good survivor, will (or ideally should) go against a good killer. You won't necessarily have games with a killer that already struggles being played against a good set of survivors.

    I don't agree about survivors being the power role either, to be quite honest.

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,470

    I just played on dead dawg last night and was caught in a infinity loop. Gideon still has so many pallets you dont need loops or windows. I'll say the obvious RPD is still a large nightmare for any killer to be on. Blackwater still has those nightmare loops under the Docks and Buildings. Farm is still large enough that survivors can repair Gens on the opposite side of the map and are safe to work on. The Combine machines on the farm maps are Semi Infinite loops if you dont know the secret to break the loops.

    You told me to take off my Killer-Tinted Glasses, I play Killer and Survivor equally and can safely tell you to take off your Survivor-Tinted glasses and look at how many things are actually in maps still that are in Survivor's favor. Survivors dont need any other things to help them out with dealing with Killers, what Survivors need to do is.....

    • Learn Maps
    • Use the Items They Already Have To Thier Fullest.
    • Just Play To Have Fun
    • Understand Who Your Facing

    Survivors already have everything they need to win unless your facing a God-Nurse then I suggest to just have fun with any chases. I like many Killers also like the fun with the chases, so unless we have a Rift or Daily for kills will tend to play more silly and have fun with Survivors. Last night I was playing Demo and at end game collapse was being chased by 2 survivors as if I was being hunted by them, in the end we all had fun and one decided to let me have her as a K.

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,470

    Not to mention RCPD and the docks and buildings in Blackwater lol

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,522
    edited November 2021

    We shouldn't be looking at one section of players, so we also can't screw over the games where there's good players just for the bad ones. Ideally we'd be making changes to help the bad players without making the good ones stronger or at least minimizing how much stronger they get. Adding even more resources would be way too much of a buff when that's already a problem with the current amount once you get to just a decent level.

    Yes good survivors should be against good killers, and the the killer usually loses because survivor is stronger. That's a problem as well.

    Its widely known and agreed that survivors are stronger than the killer once they know what they're doing and weaker when they don't. There's way too much evidence to say otherwise especially ever since SBMM got put into the game.

    The problem with the "killer that struggles" is that it encompasses the vast majority of the killer cast. Every killer outside of Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and arguably 1 or 2 more, are just not viable due to resource amount and time to down compared to gen speeds. That's way too much of the cast that just falls behind.

    You can't really fix people not playing correctly and being worse as a result without screwing the other side. The most you can do is try to give them more tools to play better, like a ping/callout system or something. Throwing resources at just one side is just going to screw over killers even harder.

    I understand you're frustrated about not being able to loop the new killers, but likewise killers are frustrated that loops and safe pallets are still too strong and plentiful. Throwing more resources in just isn't the solution as far as I can see. Yes it'd be better for the survivors, but killer would be made even more miserable of an experience than it already is.

  • thebrentster911thebrentster911 Member Posts: 54

    Don't survivors already have a bunch second chance perks/resources and pallets/loops/windows? Why do they need more and at what point would you say they have enough?

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    Why do you think that currently second chance perks are a necessity?

  • That_One_FriendThat_One_Friend Member Posts: 102

    What happened to stealth? Have trouble looping? Stealth around jungle gyms/objects before the killers sees you. NOED pops and you cant find the totem? Stealth until you A. open a gate or B. Find the totem. Really, if people started to learn to hide instead of engaging in chases, we wouldnt need 10 second chance perks and 25 pallets per map. Im not saying become one with the bush every time you hear a terror radius, but use it when it is necessary. I escape 75% of my surv matches without any meta perks, other than Prove Thyself and occasionally Quick and Quiet.

  • thebrentster911thebrentster911 Member Posts: 54

    That didn't really answer my questions?

    I agree with you on the boon totems, but survivors have second chance perks as additional resources to escape.

    Are you wanting to remove those and be replaced with something else, like map reworks with additional second chance elements for survivors instead?

    Or are second chance perks, loops, windows, pallets, sabotaging, and flashlights not enough and you want survivors to have more?

    You're not really clarifying the solution you want to the problem you're addressing.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    It can be seen right away that you do not know how to play for survivors.

    Who are you silver?

  • That_One_FriendThat_One_Friend Member Posts: 102

    I actually play 80/20, primarily survivor. I guess before grades, I would bounce between ranks 6-7.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    Apparently you are the very same Claudette at the edge of the map. NO THANKS

    As for the new mechanics, you can add a room with lamps where there is a switch that turns on the light and stuns the killer, of course, you need 2 people for such a maneuver (the light room can be charged for about a minute)

  • SmarulKusiaSmarulKusia Member Posts: 551

    I don't mind if second chance perks were to get removed in favour of more resources.

    I think the game organically should have resources ready to play against killers, but by adding so many killers that specifically have range and focus on anti-looping, the only natural form of counterplay is reduced.

  • T0thLewisT0thLewis Member Posts: 38

    Except the "press M1" part will never come as an M1 killer, thanks to infinite loops, killer shack, safe pallets where the person can just vault over left and right, all the second chance perks, flashlight, etc etc... By the time I reasonably down one survivor with an M1 killer, 1 or 2 gens already popped and we are talking about maybe 60 seconds here. That's 40% of the game finished for the survivors already. As a Nurse I VERY OFTEN down the first survivor before the first gen even pops and that's because she is fast and freaking lethal when used right.

    And I'm not downplaying the other side, I'm saying the truth here. I play a lot of survivors too, inarguably with friends so I'm part of the SWF problem. But honestly unless we go against a god-sniper huntress or a good Nurse, we escape ALMOST all the time. Some games have been so stupidly easy, I am starting to believe killers are actually extremely weak in this game. The only times we do not escape is if I just mess around with stupid builds. But once I put on the meta to complete a rift challenge or just to escape, we escape. Because gens fly.

    Not to mention that survivors have an abundance of resources when it comes to item add-ons that speed up everything. Especially BNP which can effectively battle Tinkerer and honestly, as an experienced survivor it's really not that hard to hit two great skill checks lmao.

    Survivors don't need more resources, there is already a lot. Flashies, med-kits, toolboxes, aura reading keys, lockers, pallets, window vaults, perks that help you with speed, healing, gen repairs, tricky escapes, etc etc... But a lot of people only learned one meta and they run that all the time because there is no balanced variety in the game. DH, BT, IW, DS is inarguably the strongest and will be the strongest build forever unless changes around the flow of gameplay are made so that it's not only worthless to run those perks in conjunction, but just straight up stupid.

    And why do we even have SBMM in an ASYMMETRICAL HORROR SURVIVAL GAME??? That was literally the worst mistake to add into this game.

  • thebrentster911thebrentster911 Member Posts: 54

    Yeah, I agree. It seems like the past few killers have just been a different version of anti-loop. This results in survivors just holding W to draw out chases more, leading to less interactive gameplay. Geez, they're even adding a perk specifically for the holding W strat.

    It would be cool to add resources on maps that would replace second chance perks. This could help with more build variety on the survivor side (and indirectly on the killer side too). Like, maybe you can find certain items from chests (or buildings) that give you a certain one-time use benefit like vaulting faster for a short time, use a DS, or something you can use to temporarily slow down the killer for you to create some distance. Don't know if this is the best way to approach it, but just something to put out there.

    I don't know how/if/when Behavior would pull this off, but I think if they can create more interactive gameplay between survivors and killers, the better.

  • The_Medicine_ManThe_Medicine_Man Member Posts: 65

    "Playing against most of these killers is either frustrating, annoying, or feels disconnected from what DBD is meant to feel like considering that these killers can ignore or overlook what survivors have traditionally as their protection (aka pallets/windows/vaults)."

    Yeah that's what we need, more m1 killers. If we're making a wish list then I want to jump over pallets. 🤡

  • The_Medicine_ManThe_Medicine_Man Member Posts: 65

    That sounds good though I don't know if it would work. I wish bhvr would use the ptb to play around with such ideas.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    Unfortunately, they reduced the size of the cards and the number of hooks remained the same, because of this there are many of them and they are located at a distance of 5 meters from each other.

    So breaking hooks is useless, as is the perk that allows it.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    Have an idea with a door

    1) Let the doors be slightly open and survivors can run through them

    2) The door can stun the killer by slamming it hard

    Works like a palette, but if the door is closed, then you can no longer run through it or you need to spend time breaking

    Because at the moment in the game there are a bunch of doors that killers ignore and break

    In the same school there are passages that I first saw when playing as a killer and breaking these doors

  • k0reant3ak0reant3a Member Posts: 133

    Infinites we’re insane they had to leave also a high level survivor team can run any killer around. You just need to learn 🤷🏻‍♂️

  • AnneBonnyAnneBonny Member Posts: 1,665
    edited November 2021

    hard disagree on survivors needing more in chase, i think bhvr needs to learn how to stop making 1v1 killers with no pressure because it's ######### boring getting the same basic concept over and over.

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    There is an idea for the survivors to pass through the wooden doors without problems, and the killers need to break them as usual to get through

    If the door is closed, then you need to spend 1 second to open it and leave the passage to the floor open

    On foot, just as quietly you leave this door open to the floor, but if you run and interact, you slam the door hard

    You can also improve this idea if you close the door tightly then you can stun the killer

    But the number of hooks remained the same, which simply does not limit the killer to walk 2 meters and hang the survivor even with a successful sabotage

  • Hunter_Main_322Hunter_Main_322 Member Posts: 530

    I'll tell you right away that this is the idea of my friend with whom I play, it's just that he is not registered on this forum

    But I think his question is pretty interesting.

    Why does the petard we take only have a one-time effect?

    It must be done so that it can be applied at least 3 times

    Or make it so that the charge is replenished for each generator / generator floor

    Or the charge was replenished with each open chest

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