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Jukes > Loops

ACoolNameACoolName Member Posts: 177

I prefer being able to mind game rather than loop.
Take example the nurse. Looping doesn't let you win most of the times, yet good jukes that break line of sight will do the trick.
However. Juking is extremely impossible.
Against the doctor looping is nearly ******NEARLY****** A must. Wraith when he has the all seeing addons is also impossible to hide from if he knows where to look. Pig with some of her addons to.
BBQ with high mobility killers (billy with the craving addons) are also difficult to hide and escape from. Myers with the Mirror addons.
Etc...
I'd love to be able to juke rather than loop. Yet the game hardly allows me with the multiple wall hacks. Some perks are ok like Nurse's calling, then you just don't heal in terror radius. Whispers only gives a general idea so i llet it pass.
But returning to the main point.
Who here knows how to legitimately juke and lose the killer, rather than loop? And for Killers like Doctor, how do you stealth him?
I am sincerely asking. Not trying to prove any point.
Please do not make it a 'In My opinion' thread. I want guides and advices. Tactics i can employ after i master them. For builds.... why not. Gimme some but explain in detail how to go around the match with the build.

Comments

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,139
    For juking Killers in DbD, you really need to be able to break LoS and utilize your third person camera. That's pretty much all there is to it.

    Example: you are running from the Killer and are approaching a jungle gym. You run into the gym from a bad angle, and you turn your camera around to see the Killer is beginning to attempt a cutoff around the gym that will result in you getting hit faster. If you watch behind you as you run away, you can see what the Killer is going to do.

    From here, you have the choices of either A. To keep running or B. To turn around and go back the way you came. The Killer will have to choose once breaking LoS if you are going to be tricky or continue on your path.

    This is a very simple example of mindgames that can be played after breaking Line of Sight. Other mindgames including pallet mindgames where you actually lose LoS of the killer for a moment, and he can do something called "hiding the red stain" by turning around and circling the loop BACKWARDS.

    Basically, mind games all come into play once breaking Line of Sight. You cannot run mindgames otherwise, the Killer will simply hold W and follow you. Whether or not you decide to do a 360 could be a mindgame, but 360s dont work on good Killers anyway.

    As for stealth, STAY MOBILE. If you duck into a corner or something to be stealthy, you're doing it wrong. CONSTANTLY stay on the move unless you have a solid hiding spot that ISN'T a corner. Run Urban Evasion 100% if you are trying to play stealthy. Against Doctor, you need to keep in mind when outside of his terror radius, your madness will DECREASE back to 0 of the current level, but not down another level. Sprinting or doing an action will stop the decrease. Just walk around and your madness will go back down.

    Idk what time zone you are, but I would recommend watching my stream to get an idea of how to play like this. You are actually asking how to play the game the way I play it, so I feel you could learn something from me. Here is an example match against a fairly decent Trapper.  Notice how me and him move around each other to try and mindgame one another, and while I do utilize pallets, I can hold a chase for 2 or 3 minutes without needing to loop.

    www.twitch.tv/weirdkid5/v/258046465?sr=a&t=2s
  • ACoolNameACoolName Member Posts: 177

    Thanks m8.
    I dont use twitch so I can't really benefit from this. Wish you can do a youtube channel.
    I mean... why not dude. Gets you more views and can become an income at some point.
    Plus for time zone purposes.

  • RuniverRuniver Member Posts: 2,095

    I think you don't understand the basic principle of juking tho.
    Juking is efficiently wasting the killer's time.
    Losing the killer is breaking the line of sight and not allowing the killer to find you again.

    Against Nurse, one of your only option is to LOSE her, while against other killers, you can both lose AND juke them. (You can also Juke pretty bad nurses, or good nurse for a very short tries, the time she learns to adapt your playstyle, which is usually rather quick, especially with multiple blinks.

    Looping is just an efficient, yet annoying, way to juke.
    It is cheap since it relies on very few mindgames (Basically usually the basic "Will I drop, will I not drop the pallet, and in any case, the pallet vacuum will save me just in time if I don't", which is, by definition, a win-win scenario, you just win more in one of the two situations.)

    Stealthing the Doctor ain't that hard. It's harder than other killers for sure, still doable to some extent. Usually the whole point against Doc is to get to Madness 1 quickly in the match, usually with other survivors at the same time, to exploit the fact that a killer can only apply pressure on a single person at once.

    Doctor, as devs stated, is meant to be played against differently, because, by any means, he will quickly FIND YOU and CHASE you, and he can also pressure gens with his presence/TR quite heavily. The whole point of Doctor is to make the round a battle against Time for survivors. It basically puts them in the same situation than killers are in most rounds.
    The thing to understand is, the Doctor is pretty much nearly always in a chase, which means that, sooner or later, depending on the skill of survivors, he will catch someone, and find someone else rather quickly.
    It basically forces survivors out of their comfort zone and force them to repair under specific conditions, aka another survivor on the hook, or under the terror radius, or pretty close to the killer. Which is why most new players have trouble against him : they want to fill comfortable in their round, and being able to repair while everything is going allright.
    As devs stated, it's not happening, and playing against this guy is different than any other killer from that perspective, and it's totally fine.

  • RepliCantRepliCant Member Posts: 1,436
    edited June 2018

    @weirdkid5 said:
    For juking Killers in DbD, you really need to be able to break LoS and utilize your third person camera. That's pretty much all there is to it.

    Example: you are running from the Killer and are approaching a jungle gym. You run into the gym from a bad angle, and you turn your camera around to see the Killer is beginning to attempt a cutoff around the gym that will result in you getting hit faster. If you watch behind you as you run away, you can see what the Killer is going to do.

    From here, you have the choices of either A. To keep running or B. To turn around and go back the way you came. The Killer will have to choose once breaking LoS if you are going to be tricky or continue on your path.

    This is a very simple example of mindgames that can be played after breaking Line of Sight. Other mindgames including pallet mindgames where you actually lose LoS of the killer for a moment, and he can do something called "hiding the red stain" by turning around and circling the loop BACKWARDS.

    Basically, mind games all come into play once breaking Line of Sight. You cannot run mindgames otherwise, the Killer will simply hold W and follow you. Whether or not you decide to do a 360 could be a mindgame, but 360s dont work on good Killers anyway.

    As for stealth, STAY MOBILE. If you duck into a corner or something to be stealthy, you're doing it wrong. CONSTANTLY stay on the move unless you have a solid hiding spot that ISN'T a corner. Run Urban Evasion 100% if you are trying to play stealthy. Against Doctor, you need to keep in mind when outside of his terror radius, your madness will DECREASE back to 0 of the current level, but not down another level. Sprinting or doing an action will stop the decrease. Just walk around and your madness will go back down.

    Idk what time zone you are, but I would recommend watching my stream to get an idea of how to play like this. You are actually asking how to play the game the way I play it, so I feel you could learn something from me. Here is an example match against a fairly decent Trapper.  Notice how me and him move around each other to try and mindgame one another, and while I do utilize pallets, I can hold a chase for 2 or 3 minutes without needing to loop.

    www.twitch.tv/weirdkid5/v/258046465?sr=a&t=2s

    I very much respect the way you play because I find the same - Once I stopped relying on loops and started to play mindgames, my escape rate skyrocketed. I just don't utilize pallets as much and often jukes get me out of chases without the need of using so many pallets. You should not be able to outrun the killer, but more so outplay. Looping is outrunning the killer, mindgames, jukes, backtracking, and stealth are outplaying the killer.

    Very keypoint to take in explained by weirdkid. Stealth play is acquired greatly when staying mobile, but can be diminished easily if you're not aware of your surroundings and the killers position. It is highly recommended to stay mobile, without being in LoS. As well of being highly aware of your surroundings.

    360s are mind games when unpredictable, and often times due to the popularity of 360s, I often fake a directional 360 and do a drastic direction change that tends to baffle most killers. It seems to work better against higher ranked killers, and simple 360's work better with lower ranked ones.

    A popular way to gain distance and break LoS are fake outs. The video that the above posted is a really good example of pretending you're going to vault when you indeed don't - and this works best with windows.

    Some critiques:
    I would encourage you to utilize that much better with attempting escape and moving location with backtracking involved. Not always involve b.t. but often times it helps if you're aware of the killers position.

    More in depth: Fake a pallet vault (You're good at that), often times you know not to when you don't see the Killer check the opposite side of the pallet, sometimes it's pure prediction, and completely break LoS, then once they've checked the area briefly, backtrack and hide until it's clear. Often times when they check a locker, I go and hide in it until safe. About 5% of killers double-check a locker. This works really well with losing chases.

    Especially with window vaults. In places like the Killer shack, when you go to vault out the window, most Killers will not follow you all the way through in the first or second time. If you fake using the window, backtrack to the direction they came (Or what I like to do is go to the outer side of the shack complete opposite of the window and skrrt away), you've completely broken LoS and possibly escaped a chase very easily. Most killers will assume predictions of your movement to close in on chases, make unpredictable moves to utilize this most.

    Remember that a good survivor should be wanting to drop the chase as fast and quickly as possible to avoid becoming spotted, eventually out-ran, and injured, then downed. Being in a chase is not a good thing. You want to be working on generators to be one-step closer to your escape. While holding a 2-3 minute chase is impressive, it's more impressive if you're able to lose the killer quickly and discretely. Especially in high ranks.

    While utilizing pallets is a good thing, I must add some constructive criticism and say (with all respect) that there were lots of clutches used with your pallets especially very early-game. An example would be the shack, predicting that he looped the pallet backwards, you could have stealthed-vaulted the window, break LoS and gained more distance or possibly end the chase. I must encourage using pallets as a resort to avoid being completely hit and when there's no options at all to juke. There were about 5 pallets used in one single chase, which led to a more stretched out chase than necessary. Though, that Trapper was really good. +1 for both of you guys.

    Small jukes are nice, but recommended only when in healthy state, and when needing a very quick easy-distance reward. I've had jukes in the shack done timed just right where the killer checked the locker instead, and allowed me to end the chase right then and there.

    The Doctor is another story, your best bet is to just get the hell away from him as much as possible. Juke, leave the area, and stay out of his way. He isn't good at countering stealth when he's in Punishment mode, only Treatment mode. Closing the chase favourable on the survivors side is highly, highly recommended than being able to drag it out as much as possible. That's from my experience though. If you lose him good enough, he'll often switch his focus onto a player that's stealthed/position got revealed.

    Perk build wise, I'd highly recommend using perks that utilized for chases. I'll go slightly in depth with a few of my builds, from my personal experience, have helped me escaped chases better than most Meta builds, which usually lead me to escaping more.
    1. Iron Will, Urban Evasion, Lithe (Can be replaced with Sprint Burst depending on preference), Lightweight.

    • Lightweight: is such an uncommon used perk that it has helped me the most when escaping chases. Scratch marks are the #1 source for Killers in chases, and this helped diminish your trails quick and allows for stealth moves and more LoS breaks + jukes. Best used when the killer decides to do an action (Breaking a pallet, window vault, Gen breaks). Killers typically calculate the intensity of the marks given and allows them to dictate how recent they are, and this tampers with it causing for a lot of miscalculation.
    • Iron Will: If injured, this gives you a good chance for stealth. Grunts of pain are a common audio cue used by killers to track down injured survivors. If on a dark map, lots of grass, having your grunts be silent and your blood trails being able to be unseen allows the killer to not track you so easily.
    • Urban Evasion: Explanatory itself, allows for crouched play at the normal speed of walking, some killers can see the walked survivor at full height, and this perk deems super useful for stealthed play.
    • Lithe/Sprint Burst: This is your speed boost for the chase. Utilizing it to gain distance and breaking LoS is the best way to. With the other helpful chase perks, it's recommended because it just are strong perks that will really help you.

    Sometimes I mix in Quick & Quiet, Resilience, and Technician. Utilizing these perks correctly will deem them useful and sometimes powerful. I've even used Quick & Quiet, Res., Tech., and Lithe itself and I easily lose the killer the second the chase begins. Awesome.

    Don't be concerned or worried when not using Self-Care. Memorize the Chests locations, and know that your fellow survivors mates are always going to be working on a generator if you're post-occupied from a chase. This will result in faster heal, more time spent on a generator, and granted that the generator will be done quicker since there's now two of you in the same exact location. If you can't find anyone or chests are all looted, than you must excel if put into another chase and be a little extra cautious.

    I know it's argumentative to say this game doesn't reward stealth, and to be truthful it does, just not the slightest compared to a more aggressive playstyle (the stereotype loopers with flashlights who "gen rush"), but if you do gens/exit gates until found, escape every chase, and repeat, with a few saves thrown into it and some heals, you WILL double pip.

    I just need to include that the above video is one very skilled survivor, and another very skilled Killer.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,139
    ACoolName said:

    Thanks m8.
    I dont use twitch so I can't really benefit from this. Wish you can do a youtube channel.
    I mean... why not dude. Gets you more views and can become an income at some point.
    Plus for time zone purposes.

    I mean it's just a link to an actual twitch video, so if you just copy paste that link you get taken to a video.

    Twitch is just livestreaming, I play live and you get to see and watch me play in real time and get to talk to me. You can make mad money on twitch too bro, probably as much if not more than you can on YouTube if you are a big streamer lol
  • ACoolNameACoolName Member Posts: 177

    Thanks guys.
    Really appreciate it. Im trying toget Urban at tye moment then I'll aim to get Quick and quiet.
    I'll try my hardest to juke rather than loop.

  • RagingCalmRagingCalm Member Posts: 407

    If I have an oppurtinity to lose the Killer, I always take it. Besides, getting hit only gives you 50% of the evader from that chase. I can tell you the only perk you don't even need is Iron Will, but it's ok to use it. Using other perks makes juking a braindead task(COUCH COUGH DANCE WITH ME COUGH COUGH). It is best to not hide in obvious areas, like behind a tire that is directly between the pallet you left and pallet near you. Those places, the Killer checks 80% of the time. Try and get as much distance as you can. You can do this with or without exhaustion perks. I don't use them. Sometimes I just hide in areas so stupid the Killer doesn't bother to check it because he doesn't think I would be that stupid smart.

    It is definitely a high learning curve, LOTS of dying to freddy and wraith because I randomly stopped running to crouch right where he ran past. Doing these random hiding spots also helps to counter all seeing, etc. (btw, those are crap because by the time the killer realizes they should use the add-on, you should have walked away) because you are a bit further from the Killer's path. It also makes Iron Will not needed. I do say Iron Will is needed for people learning how to juke(I still use it, because I am still improving), but I know already of people that can lose the Killer without any stealth perks(Tru3Ta1ent's really old YouTube videos. over 2 years old, back when survivors sound was louder than it is now).
    Just a quick tip, once the Killer has realized that they have lost you, you should use the 3rd person camera to your advantage and slowly walk away, crouching behind LoS blockers when they look your direction. This is definitely the hardest part of the juke, is getting away.
    For doctor, it is simple really(I do not mean to be rude) - dodge his zaps while in the chase so you don't get tier 3, and then lose him. Even if he has tier 2 illusions, you can at least hide for 10 seconds and bank in your Evader points from the chase + juke.
    Freddy's are ######### annoying. That's all. If you just try to juke Freddy's, you have to be REALLY good, because you cannot lose him unless you get a lucky skillycheck after breaking LoS, but make sure you are near the end of terror radius but still in it, and then hide quickly, somehow getting away even though you can't see when he is looking at you. You have to either just loop him for ages, or consistently juke him, until he just gives up and goes for someone else.

    As for builds, I am consistently pipping with Empathy, We'll Make It, No Mither and Iron Will. I am considering taking off Iron Will, as 50% quieter may be enough if I hide in non-obvious areas. I'm not sure what I would replace it with, but I think it would be an original perk, from the base game. If it was possible to pip with just base game perks 2 years ago, it certainly is easier now that Emblems are so pathetically easy for survivors.
    For playstyle with my build, I just kind of act on instinct. Literally. If I feel like looping the Killer will help me pip, I do that. If I think I need to lose him, then I attempt to lose him. When a survivor gets hooked near me, I finish the gen I am on(unless I just started) then unhook. I use Empathy + leftover We'll Make It to hoard extra benevolence from injured survivors that are self caring close to me. I know it is a pretty lame playstyle/explanation, but that is just what I do. I don't enter the match with a certain mindset of what I need/want to do, because I may plan to get every single unhook but then It is a basement leatherface.

  • ACoolNameACoolName Member Posts: 177

    Playing by instinct is also good!
    Intuition saves more than you think it does.
    For doctor.....Well I can avoid but with some of his addons i still think that you should juke and loop in equal amount.
    Freddy.....meh. Don't really see him that often so no worries.
    You're suggestions were also good. TanQs very much.

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