"Not changing the content so that it can no longer be used in a hateful way (there were talks of changing the faces to having survivor keepsakes attached to them, and that would have been delightful.)"
That would require the IP holders to sign off on it. If it is true that the IP holders were preventing BHVR from removing the cosmetics (until recently, at least), then I doubt they'd approve of your suggestion.
I was against the removal, but if anything good came out of this, at least all of them were removed and they didn't just single out Claudette. Then people would be accusing BHVR of the "blacks get a free pass, cool to kill whites and Asians though" mindset.
I must admit though, I'm going to miss my Jake mask and blue suit combo. :(
So now those toxic Bubbas will continue their behavior and the rest of us are needlessly punished.
This has no effect on the individuals that were doing this. It just removes a cool horror-movie-relevant feature and does nothing to address the actual toxicity.
This change, of course, only affects killers and there is no way they would do something like this if it affected a paid survivor skin. Another move that shows the people running the show isn't the same horror movie-loving people as before as this just diminishes the horror movie 'coolness' without sacrificing the new style of gameplay as that's all that matters now.
The thing is - lore-wise it's not a blackface. Bubba doesn't give two damns about race of the victims he makes masks out. It's not some dumb make-up, it's quite literally a skin-mask, a trophy if you will. A trophy he will take from black botanist and white athlete with the very same care. Native Americans aren't considered racist just for taking white people's scalps after defeating and killing them. Same goes for Leatherface.
And if lore-wise it's not a problem, then removing cosmetic (which in its nature has no connotation to "racism") will fix absolutely nothing. Absolutely. Nothing. Racist players will keep harrassing black creators, maybe now even more than before because of this change. They're doing that not because they have a Claudieface headpiece - they're doing that because they are morons who want to do it.
In this scenario BHVR should start finding a way of efficiently banning players, who are being racist/homophobic/xenophobic/etc. in the post-game chats and outside of it. But they don't do that, not even trying as far as I can tell (been playing this game for almost 3k hours and get harassed from time to time for my nationality only, have seen zero people banned for just doing that). Instead, BHVR chooses to punish players who did absolutely nothing wrong by robbing them of cosmetics they've put time and effort to obtain (they aren't purchasable after all, it's literally the only earnable set of cosmetics in game outside of Rift ones).
So real question, why not just remove the ones of non white males?
PR wise there is no such thing as being hateful towards white men so why take them all away? Hell why not make a face mask of every white male and add a special Bubba mori of slicing his face off and wearing it. I'm not joking or being sarcastic.
If it's hateful to include everyone then just don't include the people who don't want to be included. Leatherface should get more masks if they are gonna take some away. Plenty of white boys left to get a close shave and it's entirely PC.
Mainly because they lose something they're accustomed to. In the end, there are people out there who complain that they don't do enough to combat harrassment, but when BHVR do then some get upset about that. They can't win, so in this case it's guaranteed the racial harrassment would continue if the masks stay, so the only guaranteed way of dealing with it is removing it.
Trying to educate racists in a game is not going to work, because of internet anonymity. Believe me, I wish there was another way, but I cannot see it.
Well, there is one way, but it involves the report system and an eternal backlog of complaints to sift through before anything is done. It would take too long, and although a racist won't stop if tools are removed, they have less opportunity to be this way than before in-game. If it ruins the fun, they leave. They leave, then it's good for everyone.
So you are telling me that removing a single mask bad, and removing all good, try to don't think in controversies and only community wise, you are a player, are you happy for having all the masks removed instead of just only one. Alligning you with the removal of all masks is like being more catholic than the pope.
Have you read any of my other posts in this thread? I'm pissed about the removal. I just think that removing only Claudette would have been an equally bad decision.
Mainly, my stance is that this doesn't tackle the root of the issue and the players who were using the Smartface mask to harass PoC still have plenty of ways to harass people on the basis of race, gender, orientation, etc. You have to kick out those players as soon as they crop up and out themselves, not remove every aspect of the game they can possibly use to be gross.
Well, it was fun to do the challenges to be able to play the different faces freely. It's a shame to have to go this route because of some racist rats, but I think it's the only right decision. The 6000 shards as compensation makes it a bit more bearable for me and I can live with that. But... what about the black Huntress mask? Will it hit her too?
Good lord this thread is full of cringe. If removing the faces keeps even one person from behaving like a racist ass hat then it's worth it in my opinion. That kind of garbage behavior should never be tolerated.
have you guys using the 'its bubbas character he doesnt care' response ever thought that perhaps the whole idea of a fictional character wearing skin masks of all races had racist connotations all along that go deeper than Dead by Daylight and it only took us till 2021/2 to finally realize it and speak up about it
That's the kind of comment that I'm happy to read.
I'm genuinely baffled and beyond disappointed that so many people are happy to tolerate hate against other human beings on this thread and are trying to compare it to things like t-bagging.
Literally all of the people making comments about how the the faces should've remained even though they KNOW that they were being used as a tool to harass and bully POC streamers.
IMO being complacent when blatant racism is happening is just as bad.
I'm not saying they can. I'm saying they should pay more attention to that kind of stuff, rather than headpieces that players choose.
They aren't particularly efficient in banning people who do all that in-game either, as you can't even report a person properly if they aren't on Steam, while in-game post-match reports do pretty much nothing ever. Granted, it's hard to tell which in-game report is valid and which is just butthurted trolling, but it's on BHVR to bring tools which would record matches and post-game chats regardless of whether victim has OBS or not.
I don't know how disappointed you are. I think that before taking any action, they should put this in that questionnaire that they always do.
You as a player have your opinion, and as a developer I bet you have all the skins you want, we casual players don't have that luxury. Removing some skins that took so long to get, and giving a misery of Shards (you can't even buy a decent set) without being really transparent with the number of complaints and just appealing to the social discourse doesn't seem right.
All we want is data transparency and something fair in return.
Comments
"Not changing the content so that it can no longer be used in a hateful way (there were talks of changing the faces to having survivor keepsakes attached to them, and that would have been delightful.)"
That would require the IP holders to sign off on it. If it is true that the IP holders were preventing BHVR from removing the cosmetics (until recently, at least), then I doubt they'd approve of your suggestion.
I was against the removal, but if anything good came out of this, at least all of them were removed and they didn't just single out Claudette. Then people would be accusing BHVR of the "blacks get a free pass, cool to kill whites and Asians though" mindset.
I must admit though, I'm going to miss my Jake mask and blue suit combo. :(
So now those toxic Bubbas will continue their behavior and the rest of us are needlessly punished.
This has no effect on the individuals that were doing this. It just removes a cool horror-movie-relevant feature and does nothing to address the actual toxicity.
This change, of course, only affects killers and there is no way they would do something like this if it affected a paid survivor skin. Another move that shows the people running the show isn't the same horror movie-loving people as before as this just diminishes the horror movie 'coolness' without sacrificing the new style of gameplay as that's all that matters now.
The thing is - lore-wise it's not a blackface. Bubba doesn't give two damns about race of the victims he makes masks out. It's not some dumb make-up, it's quite literally a skin-mask, a trophy if you will. A trophy he will take from black botanist and white athlete with the very same care. Native Americans aren't considered racist just for taking white people's scalps after defeating and killing them. Same goes for Leatherface.
And if lore-wise it's not a problem, then removing cosmetic (which in its nature has no connotation to "racism") will fix absolutely nothing. Absolutely. Nothing. Racist players will keep harrassing black creators, maybe now even more than before because of this change. They're doing that not because they have a Claudieface headpiece - they're doing that because they are morons who want to do it.
In this scenario BHVR should start finding a way of efficiently banning players, who are being racist/homophobic/xenophobic/etc. in the post-game chats and outside of it. But they don't do that, not even trying as far as I can tell (been playing this game for almost 3k hours and get harassed from time to time for my nationality only, have seen zero people banned for just doing that). Instead, BHVR chooses to punish players who did absolutely nothing wrong by robbing them of cosmetics they've put time and effort to obtain (they aren't purchasable after all, it's literally the only earnable set of cosmetics in game outside of Rift ones).
True. Well, that's just a damn shame.
Just use the P3 face it's equally as effective
So real question, why not just remove the ones of non white males?
PR wise there is no such thing as being hateful towards white men so why take them all away? Hell why not make a face mask of every white male and add a special Bubba mori of slicing his face off and wearing it. I'm not joking or being sarcastic.
If it's hateful to include everyone then just don't include the people who don't want to be included. Leatherface should get more masks if they are gonna take some away. Plenty of white boys left to get a close shave and it's entirely PC.
True at least we get compensation for it. They could have took them away and called it a day.
I wish it wasnt just 6k shards though.... would it hurt that much to gives at least 10k? smh greedy mfs
They can't ban outside of game chat. If you're on console report them to Sony and Microsoft.
Mainly because they lose something they're accustomed to. In the end, there are people out there who complain that they don't do enough to combat harrassment, but when BHVR do then some get upset about that. They can't win, so in this case it's guaranteed the racial harrassment would continue if the masks stay, so the only guaranteed way of dealing with it is removing it.
Trying to educate racists in a game is not going to work, because of internet anonymity. Believe me, I wish there was another way, but I cannot see it.
Well, there is one way, but it involves the report system and an eternal backlog of complaints to sift through before anything is done. It would take too long, and although a racist won't stop if tools are removed, they have less opportunity to be this way than before in-game. If it ruins the fun, they leave. They leave, then it's good for everyone.
So you are telling me that removing a single mask bad, and removing all good, try to don't think in controversies and only community wise, you are a player, are you happy for having all the masks removed instead of just only one. Alligning you with the removal of all masks is like being more catholic than the pope.
EDIT: Forgot Bubba had cosmetics, lol.
Bubba has 2 outfits in the store.
True I didnt remember.
Leatherface has cosmetics.
Have you read any of my other posts in this thread? I'm pissed about the removal. I just think that removing only Claudette would have been an equally bad decision.
Mainly, my stance is that this doesn't tackle the root of the issue and the players who were using the Smartface mask to harass PoC still have plenty of ways to harass people on the basis of race, gender, orientation, etc. You have to kick out those players as soon as they crop up and out themselves, not remove every aspect of the game they can possibly use to be gross.
Well, it was fun to do the challenges to be able to play the different faces freely. It's a shame to have to go this route because of some racist rats, but I think it's the only right decision. The 6000 shards as compensation makes it a bit more bearable for me and I can live with that. But... what about the black Huntress mask? Will it hit her too?
Good lord this thread is full of cringe. If removing the faces keeps even one person from behaving like a racist ass hat then it's worth it in my opinion. That kind of garbage behavior should never be tolerated.
That's a black-painted bunny mask, not a black person's taxidermied face, so I can't imagine why that would be an issue.
have you guys using the 'its bubbas character he doesnt care' response ever thought that perhaps the whole idea of a fictional character wearing skin masks of all races had racist connotations all along that go deeper than Dead by Daylight and it only took us till 2021/2 to finally realize it and speak up about it
That's the kind of comment that I'm happy to read.
I'm genuinely baffled and beyond disappointed that so many people are happy to tolerate hate against other human beings on this thread and are trying to compare it to things like t-bagging.
Glad I P3'd Adam, Tapp and Claudette for when you are going to make said characters invulnerable against hooking/sacrificing in the future /s
I don't get it either. Is it sad to see the faces go? Sure, it was a cool thing unique to Bubba. Unfortunately people insist on ruining nice things.
Reminder to everyone in this thread that you should be angry at the racist players who went out of their way to bully POC streamers.
They are the reason the cosmetics were removed; it's absolutely unfair to try and blame this on the people being targetted and harassed.
Who is "happy to tolerate hate"? That's kind of a reach.
Literally all of the people making comments about how the the faces should've remained even though they KNOW that they were being used as a tool to harass and bully POC streamers.
IMO being complacent when blatant racism is happening is just as bad.
I'm not saying they can. I'm saying they should pay more attention to that kind of stuff, rather than headpieces that players choose.
They aren't particularly efficient in banning people who do all that in-game either, as you can't even report a person properly if they aren't on Steam, while in-game post-match reports do pretty much nothing ever. Granted, it's hard to tell which in-game report is valid and which is just butthurted trolling, but it's on BHVR to bring tools which would record matches and post-game chats regardless of whether victim has OBS or not.
I don't know how disappointed you are. I think that before taking any action, they should put this in that questionnaire that they always do.
You as a player have your opinion, and as a developer I bet you have all the skins you want, we casual players don't have that luxury. Removing some skins that took so long to get, and giving a misery of Shards (you can't even buy a decent set) without being really transparent with the number of complaints and just appealing to the social discourse doesn't seem right.
All we want is data transparency and something fair in return.
Data transparency of what? How do you want the developers to quantify racism experienced by POC streamers?
What an absurd thing to comment. Read the room.