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The way BHVR nerfed CoH



  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,293

    What it definitely needs is to not be good if you don't have a healing perk, good if someone's healing you, and super good if you have a medkit. You can't have a healing perk that's good in a vacuum and buffs other healing and not expect it to be a problem.

    One of those needs to give, and it should really be the part where one perk makes the whole team self-reliant.

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 815

    They still took the wrong way to fix this...

    They should have just changed the radius of CoH down to 16m. This would have made it so that Killers find the Boon and the healing survivor with more ease as well as fix the issue of multi-level maps.

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 1,997

    Why? The game -isn't- a vacuum. You can't just look at the output without also considering the range restriction and time it takes to bless a totem, plus the possible counterplay of snuffing the boon. Removing the heal speed boost entirely would make it borderline useless because it would take way, WAY too much time to get any value out of it. 46 seconds base, not counting the time taken to find the totem or move into range.

    And if you remove the self-care, it'd only work for swiffers.

    I agree with @Gwinty : CoH should just get a range reduction. Boons should have individualised ranges, with the smallest range perks overruling the longest range perks in case of boon stacking.

  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,293

    No, no, I mean you can't have a perk that's already good in a total vacuum with all its downsides applied, and then gets even better once its interactions with everything else in the game are factored in.

    Which is where CoH stands: on its own it's good. Really good. And then it makes things that are themselves decent or good even better.

    The one-perk-equals-teamwide-self-reliance is why it's meta, but it's also a terrible meta shift for how much it shuts off and penalises. If you could nerf it so that it doesn't make every solo player able to reset as soon as the Killer has to look away, regardless of what anyone else is doing, but still good, that'd be great. But it's kind of deleterious to a lot of Killers' playstyles and game balance in general, so if it has to die to resolve that... eh.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    The radius got already nerfed. So why nerfing it again, just cause you've a problem with it? That just makes no sense. I'm absolutely not a fan of selfish ppl. You want to take something relevant from players, just cause you cannot deal with it. The perk as it's own is fine as it is rn. There's a lot of unfair things on killer side which has to be fixed too, if you gonna face it from that side. There's a lot of awesome killers who just shreds other SWF teams while they use CoH. This sour tears are so annoying...

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 815

    First of all you assume I am selfish. While you are correct, you made that assumption on the wrong premise. This is just a quick ad personam and already shows where you are going: Accusations without any prove given.

    My purposed change to Cycle of Healing was to change it down to 16m. I have, time and time again argued that Boon: Exponential should go up to 32 meters. This is part of my agenda to make Boon radii and Exhaustion perks more variable with their values to adjust them better. Also note that I never called for a decrease of the healing value.

    You also assume that I can not deal with this based on no reason at all. Sorry, but you never saw me playing and I certainly did not say that I can not deal with a Cycle of Healing. However "being able to deal with something" and something being to strong are two different points.

    Survivors can deal with Hex: No one escapes Death. It is too strong non the less.

    Next bring up "but what about Killers unfair things". This is not the topic. We are talking about Cycle of Healing. Do not try "us vs them" with me.

    Sour tears where only shed about the amount of fallacies in your comment.

    Try better next time.

  • El_GingeroEl_Gingero Member Posts: 1,147

    Try not to get frustrated by it. The unfortunate reality is that BHVR just aren’t very good at balancing, and given some of their comments during livestreams, it’s doubtful this will ever change.

    Its always good to give feedback but try not to get too invested and hopeful. It’s best to just take DBD for what it is and enjoy the fantasy of what it could be.


  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58
    edited January 21

    Requesting a nerf is simply selfish, cause you obviously have a problem to deal with it, what means you want it to be changed to your advantage and to the disadvantage of survivors who actually needs it. There's not only high end SWF squads outside and there's a lot of awesome killers as well around playing the game. There's also players outside who queue solo and don't have the advantage to communicate or whatsoever. However, nerfing an important perk for survivors is just so sensitive that it kinda makes the perk useless. You've a lot of possibilities to get rid of CoH besides complaining on it in the forum. You could run a build which drastically slows down the blessing speed by implementing hexes or use instead Insta down hexes or perks, what makes the Boon CoH obsolete.

    Bringing up another topic also fits into this topic, because some killers cannot deal with this perk, while there's killers who can deal with it. There's a lot of rng in this game as well, which either intensifies the use of CoH or makes it absolutely obsolete and on some maps it's just fair balanced. Exponential is probably a Boon which is more likely played in SWFs and mostly requires at least 2 players for it. One who goes down and the other who occupies the killer until the first person gets up. So that makes Boon Exponential pretty much obsolete if you have no opportunity to play it effectively.

    I actually don't need to see you playing when I see you complaining about something which is totally fine, just not by you and some other killers who cannot let have survivors a decent perk while as a killer you've a lot of strong meta perks giving you a huge advantage already. You just gotta use your opportunities tho.

    Good argument. We can deal with NOED, while you cannot deal with CoH. 😉 - We had to learn to deal with it tho.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58
    edited January 21

    I'm basically only frustrated about one thing which is not related to BHVR at all, more likely to the player base. Survivors got nerfed for ages. We always want to face the fact of soloqueueing players, cause SWF is a different story. Whenever nerfs happened in the game, it most likely affected survivors. Finally they put a reasonable perk and ppl start to argue and cry again about this perk, even when it is ok as it is, but not facing the quantity on available very strong killer perks, some killers and those add ons. Solo queue is tough so there must be something reasonable for solo players. If I cannot rely on my team mates cause they are too scared to heal me or they gotta throw the game cause they think that teabagging is more important - ok! 🙉

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759

    Bring a med-kit or one of the many self heal perks.

    The next step is to play killer long enough to get decent teams that heal the nanosecond you are not chasing them while the team hyper focus gens and don't waste time saving until they need to and attempt to apply pressure.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    Med Kits are limited and I'm running out quite often on my P3 survivors, Self Care is most likely useless, unless in EGC eventually. And yea, I'm aware of it. But that also works without CoH.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759
    edited January 21

    Thats the point. Self healing should be limited. It's way to strong and was already a problem before COH but now it has reached stupid levels with a competent boon user and team.

    Sure, you can just go and snuff it.. The problem is that any decent survivor will put it in a really out of the way place that will waste way to much of your time vs one survivor out of 4 taking seconds to set it up again. A killer snuffing a boon in the back corner of the map is not progressing their objective, while one survivor setting it back up does not stop the other 3 from doing gens.

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,481

    How is allowing the Killer to break instead of snuffing the totem or not allowing CoH stack with Medkits a bad idea.....

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,481

    Not when we are talking about 4 survivors vs 1 Killer.....the only thing that seconds matter is to Killer.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    Ok, but what exactly is the problem here? You are talking about a SWF as it seems like and this is unfortunately a different thing. We all know, that SWFs are overpowered, regardless if they bring CoH or not. If you aren't experienced enough to deal with it, you just cannot do much anyways. You guys should also think about casual players and the mid tier and not only the high end ranking. I either meet teams in my range or teams - thanks to the SSBM - absolutely out of my range who destroy me while I play on a killer with bad perks, cause I don't wanna spend since Myers is LVL50. But they would also destroy me without CoH. So that rly doesn't matter too much to me.

    It's supposed to be an asymmetric PvP game. Of course you are fighting 4 survivors and you need to outplay them smartly. Thats not happening always. But I put the blame on BHVR for changing the game into a sweating contest by changing the Ranking System to SSBM which is absolutely poop, but whatsoever.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,439

    Some people just want CoH to be gutted because they don't like it.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    Yea but they've to deal with it. Survivors also have to deal with NOED and some other super annoying Perks and "special strategies" aka Tunnelling & Facecamping. And then on top, some ppl rly still cry about Circle of Healing. Some parts of this community are absolutely ridicilous.

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,481

    Sadly the asymmetric part of the game was the Killer was supposed to be the power role and the survivors were the weaker role. BHVR has somehow made the 4 survivors the power role and the Killer the weaker role.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    @Rizzo90 I don't care.

    I'm tired of plebs who are selfish and wants to run the game in easy mode, while there's a way to have a balanced game. Guess I expressed that a bit too much.

    Skill < Complaining is what's going on for years now.

    Unfortunately most players don't understand the matter of game health. Developing is a hard process. Winning and losing isn't all what matters, unlike for some ppl who are sweating every single drop of water just to make sure that either the Killer/Survivors have an insane hard time. There's enough proof and evidence from YouTubers and Twitchers, that games are winnable for Killers even with Circle of Healing. Killers have enough possibilities to counter the Survivors. As a Killer you've to rely on yourself. As Survivors you've to rely on your entire team. If you are unable to beat a team, then probably you would've not been able to beat this team anyways and that's just a bad excuse to flag Circle of Healing for it.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58

    That's actually wrong. At 1.0.0 and for a few game versions, Killers were really disadvantaged cause the game was fresh and everything was new, so things had to get settled up and balancing was changed over 6 yrs. But then over time until now, Killers were in majority in huge advantage until recent update, which now kinda makes it even.

    You probably understood the meaning of "Asymmetric 4v1 PvP Game" wrong, because "Survivors" who are only strong together by cooperation, team play, tricking the killer and looping. While the Killer relies on strong perks, add ons, map design and most importantly their brain.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759
    edited January 22

    Are people really this clueless? Tunnelling and camping have soared after the release of this stupid perk for a reason. Killers have nothing left because injuring and leaving a survivor is pure wasted time thanks to this abomination of a perk.

    Pre COH- hit a survivor and peel off to hit someone on a gen next to you. That survivor now needs to use up their medkit or force someone off a gen to heal them giving the killer more time. During this time you as a killer have the opportunity to find that survivor out of position while injured giving you an easy down creating more pressure.

    Post COH- You hit a survivor and peel off to hit someone on a gen next to you. That survivor runs to the edge of COH and heals... while the rest of the team churns away at the gens uninterrupted.

    As fot your WAAA solo players argument. This perk has single handedly won me games in solo that we should not have. As long as SWF is in the game and the problems it causes are ignored, then you can't release perks that super buff them. Hell i even ask if anyone is using COH so i know if i need to bother running it or i can take some other second chance as survivor because you only need it to be run by a single person. (just don't play Mikaela because she will be hard tunnelled out to remove the boon)

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    They acknowledge it in a way a condescending prick would acknowledge something say everything's fine with it not even talk about the actual problems with it and do something that does little to nothing to fix it. But, I guess we should just accept it and buy the ring dlc maybe they might add something to countermeasure boons even though I doubt it.

  • CarthCarth Member Posts: 523

    And? They nuked 'tunneling' perks into the ground for killers. Why can survivors maximize gen efficiency/healing and be rewarded while literally any killer time efficiency Strat is nerfed into the grounds/extreme counters via perks/addons are provided for?

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    Cause the game is biased and no one wants to admit it on the dev team.

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 5,845

    nothings ever gonna change the survivor meta I don't think.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,471

    So I did the math according to the charge point system which they use for healing and repairing gens.....

    Needless to say, all the nerf did was make you heal 1.15 seconds more compared to pre-nerfed CoH....

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 1,997

    Because those 'time efficient strats' are both terrible for gameplay and really overpowered. It's way harder for survivors to interfere with killer playability than vice versa.

  • selflessneaselflessnea Member Posts: 565

    K. maybe see how it effects the game before your complain sheesh

  • ShinobuSKShinobuSK Member Posts: 4,137

    People are outraged because it only adds 4s to self heal...dont want to see when they learn it actually adds only 2,29s to selfheal and 1,14s to heal others after this nerf

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