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Legion's power - pick one

RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258
edited November 2018 in 2.4.0 PTB

Legion is a very weak killer.

"B-b-but how can you tell one day after the start of the PTB? You should wait at least one year >;( " - Yeah, sure. Many saw the Spirit's weaknesses after a couple of hours, and guess what? They buffed her. It does not take a genius to see, that killer is just weak. The cooldown is good, the time of the Frenzy is good as well - the problem lies within the core of his power. Here are my propositions to make him at least viable, pick one:

1. Make the Deep Wound Effect (DWE) bar deplete while in chase, but freeze while not in chase, add 8s to the bar.

Thanks to this the killer is rewarded for playing good, and punished for losing the survivor.
"B-b-but he is so fast ;< " - That's why he has a double stun and disability to see scratchmarks, so you can lose him. By the way - play stealthy, as all skilled survivors should.

2. Remove DWE from his power, make him be able to hit just once per Frenzy (not 2 times, like now), add 2/3s to the cooldown.

The new DWE made BT a very strong perk, and Legion's power very weak. Let's fix it by the proposition number 2.
"B-b-but how can I loop him then ;<<" - Don't loop, just like against the Nurse, adapt, as you would like all killers to, and play stealthy - you will be fine.

3. Make the DWE bar deplete while mending, add 1s to the mend bar and make the killer 115% speed.

"He is supposed to hit and let the survivor escape, so the surv can bleed out, and the killer can put the pressure ;<<" - Put pressure? On who? R20 survivors who won't remember to mend? Because even R19 survivors will mend, making his "power" a laugh. The only thing he can do right now is to hit survivor with the Frenzy, then chase him as a 110% killer, or tryhard and down the surv with 4 Frenzy attacks. Thanks to the point number 3, the killer can actually "Hit & Run" effectively, while still being weak against loops, as all survivors would like him to be.

4. Make him use his Frenzy until he downs a survivor or loses the Frenzy bar (he does not get stunned when hitting surv with DWE, he does get stunned x1,5 longer when losing the Frenzy bar), add +2 hits to the bar of the DWE (so the killer needs to hit survivor 6 times with Frenzy to down him), DWE DOES NOT DEPLETE.

So in fact survivors can be downed in 2 ways - by hitting them once with the Frenzy, and once in the normal way, with M1, as it is now, OR hit the survivor 6 times with the Frenzy that does not stun the killer after hitting the survivor, it gives him another chance to hit the surv, as if it was the first time the killer hit survivor.

5. Make survivors be able to be mended only by their teammates, not by themselves.

This way Legion will have an incentive to hit as many survivors as possible, not tunnel one guy. The more survivors he hit, the bigger chance he has to down a survivor.

At the end, I would like to say, that even if you make his power's cooldown be 0,1s, even if you make his Frenzy stun to be 1s - his power will be still very weak, because the problem does not lie within the cooldowns, which are good. You need to change his power, not only the values.

"B-b-b..." - oh shut up. Can someone get rid of the voices in my head, please?

Post edited by RSB on
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Comments

  • Bravo0413Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,432
    This killer is straight forward... speed/power no mind games to learn really from what I see... so yeah anyone can see that the mending mechanic needs looking at and the deep wound effect needs looking... the timer cant really deplete during chases that would make the game boring as hell... I do to an extent agree with #3 though 
  • Dabrownman1812Dabrownman1812 Member Posts: 1,806
    RSB said:

    Legion is a very weak killer.

    "B-b-but how can you tell one day after the start of the PTB? You should wait at least one year >;( " - Yeah, sure. Many saw the Spirit's weaknesses after a couple of hours, and guess what? They buffed her. It does not take a genius to see, that killer is just weak. The cooldown is good, the time of the Frenzy is good as well - the problem lies within the core of his power. Here are my propositions to make him at least viable, pick one:

    1. Make the Deep Wound Effect (DWE) bar deplete while in chase, but freeze while not in chase, add 8s to the bar.

    Thanks to this the killer is rewarded for playing good, and punished for losing the survivor.
    "B-b-but he is so fast ;< " - That's why he has a double stun and disability to see scratchmarks, so you can lose him. By the way - play stealthy, as all skilled survivors should.

    2. Remove DWE from his power, make him be able to hit just once per Frenzy (not 2 times, like now), add 2/3s to the cooldown.

    The new DWE made BT a very strong perk, and Legion's power very weak. Let's fix it by the proposition number 2.
    "B-b-but how can I loop him then ;<<" - Don't loop, just like against the Nurse, adapt, as you would like all killers to, and play stealthy - you will be fine.

    3. Make the DWE bar deplete while mending, add 1s to the mend bar and make the killer 115% speed.

    "He is supposed to hit and let the survivor escape, so the surv can bleed out, and the killer can put the pressure ;<<" - Put pressure? On who? R20 survivors who won't remember to mend? Because even R19 survivors will mend, making his "power" a laugh. The only thing he can do right now is to hit survivor with the Frenzy, then chase him as a 110% killer, or tryhard and down the surv with 4 Frenzy attacks. Thanks to the point number 3, the killer can actually "Hit & Run" effectively, while still being weak against loops, as all survivors would like him to be.

    At the end, I would like to say, that even if you make his power's cooldown be 0,1s, even if you make his Frenzy stun to be 1s - his power will be still very weak, because the problem does not lie within the cooldowns, which are good. You need to change his power, not only the values.

    "B-b-b..." - oh shut up. Can someone get rid of the voices in my head, please?

    Wait, it even stops the timer for borrowed time? Definitely needs to be adjusted. 
  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258
    edited November 2018

    @Dabrownman1812 said:
    RSB said:

    Legion is a very weak killer.

    "B-b-but how can you tell one day after the start of the PTB? You should wait at least one year >;( " - Yeah, sure. Many saw the Spirit's weaknesses after a couple of hours, and guess what? They buffed her. It does not take a genius to see, that killer is just weak. The cooldown is good, the time of the Frenzy is good as well - the problem lies within the core of his power. Here are my propositions to make him at least viable, pick one:

    1. Make the Deep Wound Effect (DWE) bar deplete while in chase, but freeze while not in chase, add 8s to the bar.

      Thanks to this the killer is rewarded for playing good, and punished for losing the survivor.

    "B-b-but he is so fast ;< " - That's why he has a double stun and disability to see scratchmarks, so you can lose him. By the way - play stealthy, as all skilled survivors should.

    1. Remove DWE from his power, make him be able to hit just once per Frenzy (not 2 times, like now), add 2/3s to the cooldown.

      The new DWE made BT a very strong perk, and Legion's power very weak. Let's fix it by the proposition number 2.

    "B-b-but how can I loop him then ;<<" - Don't loop, just like against the Nurse, adapt, as you would like all killers to, and play stealthy - you will be fine.

    1. Make the DWE bar deplete while mending, add 1s to the mend bar and make the killer 115% speed.

      "He is supposed to hit and let the survivor escape, so the surv can bleed out, and the killer can put the pressure ;<<" - Put pressure? On who? R20 survivors who won't remember to mend? Because even R19 survivors will mend, making his "power" a laugh. The only thing he can do right now is to hit survivor with the Frenzy, then chase him as a 110% killer, or tryhard and down the surv with 4 Frenzy attacks. Thanks to the point number 3, the killer can actually "Hit & Run" effectively, while still being weak against loops, as all survivors would like him to be.

      At the end, I would like to say, that even if you make his power's cooldown be 0,1s, even if you make his Frenzy stun to be 1s - his power will be still very weak, because the problem does not lie within the cooldowns, which are good. You need to change his power, not only the values.

      "B-b-b..." - oh shut up. Can someone get rid of the voices in my head, please?

      Wait, it even stops the timer for borrowed time? Definitely needs to be adjusted. 

    Yes, BT now has DWE (Deep Wound Effect), which is much like old BT, with one exception - the timer stops when you chase the survivor. New killer's power is just giving survivors the DWE (they can heal even without SC).

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 16,078

    @RSB said:
    Yes, BT now has DWE (Deep Wound Effect), which is much like old BT, with one exception - the timer stops when you chase the survivor. New killer's power is just giving survivors the DWE (they can heal even without SC).

    Mending is not healing. Mending stops the bleed-out timer, but they remain injured.

  • Keene_KillsKeene_Kills Member Posts: 649

    Two games ago I had a survivor I'd already tagged with Deep Wounds previously run back across my FOV with another survivor right on their heels. I gave chase to tag the blocking survivor... then I noticed the first survivor's DW bar wasn't moving.

    I had to laugh. Half a day since PTB release and they've already figured it out.

  • BaxterchenBaxterchen Member Posts: 55

    @RSB said:
    Legion is a very weak killer.

    "B-b-but how can you tell one day after the start of the PTB? You should wait at least one year >;( " - Yeah, sure. Many saw the Spirit's weaknesses after a couple of hours, and guess what? They buffed her. It does not take a genius to see, that killer is just weak. The cooldown is good, the time of the Frenzy is good as well - the problem lies within the core of his power. Here are my propositions to make him at least viable, pick one:

    1. Make the Deep Wound Effect (DWE) bar deplete while in chase, but freeze while not in chase, add 8s to the bar.

    Thanks to this the killer is rewarded for playing good, and punished for losing the survivor.
    "B-b-but he is so fast ;< " - That's why he has a double stun and disability to see scratchmarks, so you can lose him. By the way - play stealthy, as all skilled survivors should.

    2. Remove DWE from his power, make him be able to hit just once per Frenzy (not 2 times, like now), add 2/3s to the cooldown.

    The new DWE made BT a very strong perk, and Legion's power very weak. Let's fix it by the proposition number 2.
    "B-b-but how can I loop him then ;<<" - Don't loop, just like against the Nurse, adapt, as you would like all killers to, and play stealthy - you will be fine.

    3. Make the DWE bar deplete while mending, add 1s to the mend bar and make the killer 115% speed.

    "He is supposed to hit and let the survivor escape, so the surv can bleed out, and the killer can put the pressure ;<<" - Put pressure? On who? R20 survivors who won't remember to mend? Because even R19 survivors will mend, making his "power" a laugh. The only thing he can do right now is to hit survivor with the Frenzy, then chase him as a 110% killer, or tryhard and down the surv with 4 Frenzy attacks. Thanks to the point number 3, the killer can actually "Hit & Run" effectively, while still being weak against loops, as all survivors would like him to be.

    At the end, I would like to say, that even if you make his power's cooldown be 0,1s, even if you make his Frenzy stun to be 1s - his power will be still very weak, because the problem does not lie within the cooldowns, which are good. You need to change his power, not only the values.

    "B-b-b..." - oh shut up. Can someone get rid of the voices in my head, please?

    @not_Queen can you pass this on to the killer team? these are some reasonable ideas.

  • BottledWaterBottledWater Member Posts: 241

    I really enjoy and would like to see option 1 it definetly feels a bit too underwhelming and does to little for being "A deep wound"

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 1,690

    I lke the option 1 but knowing devs they'll do just some small tweaks and won't actually do any meaningfull buff until much later on. Well I hope they do but still doubt it.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 7,065

    I pretty much agree as well and like the ideas. The buff to BT was a little much imo, the perk was already extremely strong and meta and this just made it even way better, too much.

    Some other things I'd like to see, doesn't necessarily mean all.

    The weapon recover AND his power depletion recovery BOTH happening together. This reminds me of when nurse had this bug where she had to go through both as well, it's too long and should just be one. Please fix.

    His normal M1 attacks reseting his power charge completely. Like why? This needs to be removed and if anything, his M1 attacks should GIVE him some of his charge back so that he gets his power up sooner, not the opposite.

    I feel that their entire goal for this guy is spread pressure, not spamming Feral Frenzy stabs over and over into one guy. However, in theory this works but not in practicality. Unless they are just balled up on top of you (which once they know the killer won't be happening at rank 1) you can't reach enough people even with his speed. How do we fix this without making the tunnel into one guy stronger? Make his Feral Frenzy speed massively faster ONLY when moving in the direction of a target not inflicted by Deep Wounds. Doesn't effect his tunnel while encouraging him to spread pressure into much further away survivors.

    The mend is so easily handled it's not worth the added pressure when you're not getting hooks from because of how easy it is to recover. I'd rather not have Deep Wounds continue during chase as it promotes just spamming into that one guy and we want to encourage the spread pressure play style they wanted. Make it so everytime you inflict Deep Wounds on a new target, all targets afflicted by it lose a chunk of their bleed out meter. Maybe also make the meter deplete faster the more Deep Wounds you have out on different people? This would encourage the spread pressure and get some surprise down on people that let their bleed out get too low before mending.

    Mend should be reseting if you cancel it and start back up, progress shouldn't be saved. Mend should also be effected by healing abilities ( Nurses/Sloppy/Coulrophobia etc)

    I don't think he quite warrants the slower movespeed either. Either faster power recovery or better normal move speed.

    Like I said, not necessarily all of these, but you get some ideas I think of his issues and possible changes.

  • DelfadorDelfador Member Posts: 2,553
    edited November 2018

    3 posts:/

  • DelfadorDelfador Member Posts: 2,553
    edited November 2018

    3 posts:/ don't know how it happened LOL

  • DelfadorDelfador Member Posts: 2,553

    @RSB said:
    Legion is a very weak killer.

    "B-b-but how can you tell one day after the start of the PTB? You should wait at least one year >;( " - Yeah, sure. Many saw the Spirit's weaknesses after a couple of hours, and guess what? They buffed her. It does not take a genius to see, that killer is just weak. The cooldown is good, the time of the Frenzy is good as well - the problem lies within the core of his power. Here are my propositions to make him at least viable, pick one:

    1. Make the Deep Wound Effect (DWE) bar deplete while in chase, but freeze while not in chase, add 8s to the bar.

    Thanks to this the killer is rewarded for playing good, and punished for losing the survivor.
    "B-b-but he is so fast ;< " - That's why he has a double stun and disability to see scratchmarks, so you can lose him. By the way - play stealthy, as all skilled survivors should.

    2. Remove DWE from his power, make him be able to hit just once per Frenzy (not 2 times, like now), add 2/3s to the cooldown.

    The new DWE made BT a very strong perk, and Legion's power very weak. Let's fix it by the proposition number 2.
    "B-b-but how can I loop him then ;<<" - Don't loop, just like against the Nurse, adapt, as you would like all killers to, and play stealthy - you will be fine.

    3. Make the DWE bar deplete while mending, add 1s to the mend bar and make the killer 115% speed.

    "He is supposed to hit and let the survivor escape, so the surv can bleed out, and the killer can put the pressure ;<<" - Put pressure? On who? R20 survivors who won't remember to mend? Because even R19 survivors will mend, making his "power" a laugh. The only thing he can do right now is to hit survivor with the Frenzy, then chase him as a 110% killer, or tryhard and down the surv with 4 Frenzy attacks. Thanks to the point number 3, the killer can actually "Hit & Run" effectively, while still being weak against loops, as all survivors would like him to be.

    At the end, I would like to say, that even if you make his power's cooldown be 0,1s, even if you make his Frenzy stun to be 1s - his power will be still very weak, because the problem does not lie within the cooldowns, which are good. You need to change his power, not only the values.

    "B-b-b..." - oh shut up. Can someone get rid of the voices in my head, please?

    I see the first proposition everywhere and can not understand the idea.
    It is so god damn cheap. I mean there is no other cheap mechanic except for Decisive strike in the entire game. First hits are always guaranteed, no matter what people say. And now, the only thing that the killer has to do is to wait till the survivor bleeds out while in a chase? Rank 20 killers will be able to get downs against godlike 4k hour survivors? It is not gonna happen I am sure of it. Even if it does happen, devs will later revert it.

    Also to the voices in your head, double stun happens only when you hit the survivor for the second time. If you simply follow them and wait till your power depletes you get stunned for once and since you are right next to the survivor, there is no chance that the survivor can lose you. He can sense people after he hits 1st survivor, there is no stealth in it.

    Second proposition doesn't bring any skill to the table as well. Just wait till you have your power and then get another hit. Nurse has no tracking ability, this dude has actually the ability to sense people. Most maps are not good for hiding. I don't see this change happening neither. You just wanted to remove an effect that they created for a new killer.

    Third one is the most reasonable one. He should have 115% ms. Instead of deep wound effect depleting while mending, increasing mending time would be better imo though it might be boring. It will create more pressure across the map. This change should be added while we are still in PTB and then evaluated accordingly. If it is not enough, we can look for other ideas.

    Try to understand the game from both killers' and survivors' perspective.

  • MorfedelMorfedel Member Posts: 198

    having the bleedout timer count down during a chase is stupid. the killer would almost never lose that way.

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @Blueberry said:
    I pretty much agree as well and like the ideas. The buff to BT was a little much imo, the perk was already extremely strong and meta and this just made it even way better, too much.

    Some other things I'd like to see, doesn't necessarily mean all.

    The weapon recover AND his power depletion recovery BOTH happening together. This reminds me of when nurse had this bug where she had to go through both as well, it's too long and should just be one. Please fix.

    His normal M1 attacks reseting his power charge completely. Like why? This needs to be removed and if anything, his M1 attacks should GIVE him some of his charge back so that he gets his power up sooner, not the opposite.

    I feel that their entire goal for this guy is spread pressure, not spamming Feral Frenzy stabs over and over into one guy. However, in theory this works but not in practicality. Unless they are just balled up on top of you (which once they know the killer won't be happening at rank 1) you can't reach enough people even with his speed. How do we fix this without making the tunnel into one guy stronger? Make his Feral Frenzy speed massively faster ONLY when moving in the direction of a target not inflicted by Deep Wounds. Doesn't effect his tunnel while encouraging him to spread pressure into much further away survivors.

    The mend is so easily handled it's not worth the added pressure when you're not getting hooks from because of how easy it is to recover. I'd rather not have Deep Wounds continue during chase as it promotes just spamming into that one guy and we want to encourage the spread pressure play style they wanted. Make it so everytime you inflict Deep Wounds on a new target, all targets afflicted by it lose a chunk of their bleed out meter. Maybe also make the meter deplete faster the more Deep Wounds you have out on different people? This would encourage the spread pressure and get some surprise down on people that let their bleed out get too low before mending.

    Mend should be reseting if you cancel it and start back up, progress shouldn't be saved. Mend should also be effected by healing abilities ( Nurses/Sloppy/Coulrophobia etc)

    I don't think he quite warrants the slower movespeed either. Either faster power recovery or better normal move speed.

    Like I said, not necessarily all of these, but you get some ideas I think of his issues and possible changes.

    Honestly, his power reset and double stun after one of said 3 changes would be reasonable - he would not be so overpowered and thanks to the stun survivor would have enough time to run and hide (remember - no scratchmarks).

    But right now... You are right, this is too much.

  • DragonredkingDragonredking Member Posts: 874

    Fun fact, Back with BT if you where in a locker when the timer depleted you didn't get downed.
    Someone should try to see if the new status effect does the same imo

  • RSBRSB Member Posts: 2,258

    @not_Queen said:
    Thanks for the feedback!
    And thank you guys for a good discussion even when you disagree. It's refreshing to see!

    Thank you too ;>

  • DragonredkingDragonredking Member Posts: 874
    edited November 2018

    Now to be actually on the topic of what I think about the legion.

    Before I played them I was skeptical about their usefullness, because of the way their power description was written I thought that they where going at the same speed that a sprinting survivor go unless they used their power.

    After playing them I realised that I was just being silly and they where going at hag speed.
    They are really fun to play IMO but I don't find the slower movement speed to be justified by the power but it doesn't hinder them to badly so I guess they will be fine without a speed increase even if it would be appreciated.

    Post edited by Dragonredking on
  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 809
    edited November 2018

    @Orion said:

    @RSB said:
    Yes, BT now has DWE (Deep Wound Effect), which is much like old BT, with one exception - the timer stops when you chase the survivor. New killer's power is just giving survivors the DWE (they can heal even without SC).

    Mending is not healing. Mending stops the bleed-out timer, but they remain injured.

    So what the heck is the point of dipping down jumping over pallets and going through all that BS just to "Injure" someone.... you can't do anything with just injured survivors....Point blank period, this killer is bad at ending chases....injured survivors might as well be full health survivors. And his power is literally useless against no mither.

    Now don't get me wrong. I love the concept and idea, but the change to the Borrowed time, and bleed out timer and only giving this killer a marginal ability to manipulate that bar makes him weak. Even with the most powerful bleed out timer add ons you're still gonna have a bad time getting anyone to bleed out, and if you're chasing someone long enough to hit them and deplete the bar even more, you could have not used the sprint power on a normal 110 to 115 killer and downed them...... Hag does this all the time and has no problem ending chases.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 809

    @Morfedel said:
    having the bleedout timer count down during a chase is stupid. the killer would almost never lose that way.

    The thing is, if it were any other killer, given the sheer length of the bleed out timer, they would have downed you anyway. It doesn't take that long to hit a person twice even with a 110 killer.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 16,078
    edited November 2018

    @PigMainBigBrain said:

    @Orion said:

    @RSB said:
    Yes, BT now has DWE (Deep Wound Effect), which is much like old BT, with one exception - the timer stops when you chase the survivor. New killer's power is just giving survivors the DWE (they can heal even without SC).

    Mending is not healing. Mending stops the bleed-out timer, but they remain injured.

    So what the heck is the point of dipping down jumping over pallets and going through all that BS just to "Injure" someone.... you can't do anything with just injured survivors....Point blank period, this killer is bad at ending chases....injured survivors might as well be full health survivors. And his power is literally useless against no mither.

    Now don't get me wrong. I love the concept and idea, but the change to the Borrowed time, and bleed out timer and only giving this killer a marginal ability to manipulate that bar makes him weak. Even with the most powerful bleed out timer add ons you're still gonna have a bad time getting anyone to bleed out, and if you're chasing someone long enough to hit them and deplete the bar even more, you could have not used the sprint power on a normal 110 to 115 killer and downed them...... Hag does this all the time and has no problem ending chases.

    Think about it this way: you hit a Survivor, and they have to complete an action in addition to healing themselves before they're out of danger. The Killers' power isn't the problem; DWE is. I proposed some changes to DWE and Mend here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/32396/deep-wound-mend-and-legion-changes

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 634

    In my opinion they should've made the power different and should already begin the rework to not waste time, because as it is, it's nothing more than a blatant rehashed use of the spirits power with a few additions and alterations.

    ...with the above being said, IF - they're going to stick with the current power they need to make several changes to make the legion viable, so to make its current power more viable would be to make the changes below...
    ...the generic changes:
    ...have the bleedout reduction time be faster and be active while during chases.
    ...increase the mending time significantly
    ...have the deep wound status immediately remove the borrowed time effect and down the victim immediately as the victim is already 1 attack from dying state.

    ...the either or changes:
    ...have the bleedout reduction time become increasingly faster with each deep wound applied.
    ...remove the part about the feral frenzy being ended when hitting one with an already deep wound status.
    ...add: "Applying additional deep wounds does not cause the frenzy feral frenzy meter to refill"
    ...add: "While in feral frenzy there is no attack recovery speed penalty" - meaning you can attack more and keep moving without losing as much distance - because do remember that hitting a victim gives it a speed boost.
    .....OR....
    ...have the bleedout reduction time become increasingly faster with each deep wound applied.
    ...have the feral attack down one with two applied deep wounds.
    ...have the deep wound bar deplete while mending.

    There are also other changes that would make sense to apply, several changes need to happen, especially deep wound mechanic need to tweaked, because as is, it's a joke, it doesn't achieve anything worth attempting to use. It needs to be a threat which it currently isn't.

    Though, my vote is for reworking the legions power into something more unique, rather than to use a blatantly rehashed power from the previous killer with only a few additions and alterations, not to mention that it was the just the previous installment that came. As mentioned, the deep wound mechanic also needs to be fixed to be a threat.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 809

    @Orion said:

    @PigMainBigBrain said:

    @Orion said:

    @RSB said:
    Yes, BT now has DWE (Deep Wound Effect), which is much like old BT, with one exception - the timer stops when you chase the survivor. New killer's power is just giving survivors the DWE (they can heal even without SC).

    Mending is not healing. Mending stops the bleed-out timer, but they remain injured.

    So what the heck is the point of dipping down jumping over pallets and going through all that BS just to "Injure" someone.... you can't do anything with just injured survivors....Point blank period, this killer is bad at ending chases....injured survivors might as well be full health survivors. And his power is literally useless against no mither.

    Now don't get me wrong. I love the concept and idea, but the change to the Borrowed time, and bleed out timer and only giving this killer a marginal ability to manipulate that bar makes him weak. Even with the most powerful bleed out timer add ons you're still gonna have a bad time getting anyone to bleed out, and if you're chasing someone long enough to hit them and deplete the bar even more, you could have not used the sprint power on a normal 110 to 115 killer and downed them...... Hag does this all the time and has no problem ending chases.

    Think about it this way: you hit a Survivor, and they have to complete an action in addition to healing themselves before they're out of danger. The Killers' power isn't the problem; DWE is.

    Thats what im sayin, I mean they opened up so many possibilities by allowing this killer to pretty much have its own special effect that they could have added add ons that make Deep wounds even better. They could have made it so you're blind while deep wounded, could have added an exhaustion to deep wounds, could have added a slow to deep wounds, could have added an aura reading add on for deep wounds ( which honestly would have been more helpful than the current system considering once you lose someone even if you smash an entire 4 man group all of them with deep wounds they spread out and heal it up and you've lost their position, allowing them to heal to full again resetting any damage that you've done).

    But too many of its add ons are related to frenzy cooldowns durations speeds etc etc.... Frenzy at its core without duration or cooldown add ons is already good, it doesn't need them. But they could have filled those add on slots with a lot more variety to hone in on the most dangerous part of his/her kit which is the DWE. I honestly expected to see more DWE related add ons when I went to Kill your friends to see the full layout...but nope...you get 2....thats it....and it only shortens the time. On top of this, trying to find synergy with this killers kit and other perks is a huge hassle. You can't use insta down builds effectively because just like the huntress his power doesn't work with exposed. You can't use knock out and blind builds because he/she cant end chases fast enough. You can't use heal builds effectively because things you'd expect to have heal reductions dont like mend, and tracking perks for healing like nurses calling dont work on mend.

    At best, you can use thanatophobia to its fullest, you lose scratch mark tracking perks on frenzy, which leaves you with bloodhound.
    In THEORY if this killer had a terror radius worth mentioning 31 or somewhere around there, you could run a high terror radius build and use your frenzy to track people inside of your wide radius with perks like distressing stacking on top of monitor and abuse. Which would save you a bit of blood points compared to having to run his pink add on for global terror radius during frenzy. All in all though this killer has worse synergy with perks than any killer ive ever theory crafted builds around. Even freddy has higher synergy in his builds....

  • No_Cluie_LouisNo_Cluie_Louis Member Posts: 1,086

    obviously your changes don't work together and you expect only one of them to be implemented. If i had to rank them in order, i'd say 3,1,2, thought i like 1 pretty much as much as 2, though i don't like 3 at all. Without the bleed out mechanic, this killer would be too bland

  • alivebydeadightalivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    I am ready to get insulted for saying this, borrowed time rework which is the deep wound status effect occurred because the poor balancing of the perk, because it slightly helped with tunnelers, what we can do to help with his/her ability is by making it to where when getting hit twice by his/her ability you go into the dying state instead of 5 times from his/her ability, and make movement speed 112.5% so it feels balanced to the eye

  • Boaris030Boaris030 Member Posts: 117

    @Dragonredking said:
    Now to be actually on the topic of what I think about the legion.

    Before I played them I was skeptical about their usefullness, because of the way their power description was written I thought that they where going at the same speed that a sprinting survivor go unless they used their power.

    After playing them I realised that I was just being silly and they where going at hag speed.
    They are really fun to play IMO but I don't find the slower movement speed to be justified by the power but it doesn't hinder them to badly so I guess they will be fine without a speed increase even if it would be appreciated.

    Ps: Also the fact that prestiging them unlock actual new cosmetic instead of just adding blood to the base skin is nice and I want more killer to be like that.

    Hold up so prestiging this killer unlocks Joe’s and Susie’s outfits??

  • MortethMorteth Member Posts: 42

    considering Nurse and Billy, the Legion needs a buff, that's pretty obvious. All has been said already. He/she's great, I love the concept, but the numbers are too hindering. Stall the game, sure, but let me catch someone at least. And punish not healing. WHen everyone stays in injured state, it actually hurts me, because there's no real point to use my power, other than to give the surv some distance from me.

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