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NOED and new Killers

Hey, I saw Otz's video on NOED and I've stated something similar before so I just wanted to throw this out for discussion.

I also agree and think NOED is harmful to new killers in the long term and puts them in an MMR hellscape. We also see that, from the MMR data, it's not even that effective of a perk as its use drops off the higher you go up in MMR.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming NOED as a perk. In fact, I sometimes run it with Blood Warden, Remember Me and/or No Way Out as an end game build where I play most of the match perkless (but, to be honest, if I don't get at least six hooks before end game I just open the gates and let the survivors leave to keep my MMR from inflating).

However, I do think the effectiveness of NOED at low to mid MMR is exactly why it needs to redesigned. It's not that effective as you go up in MMR and it's easily countered with experience; not by people new to the game. It's effective until it's not and then new killers are stuck in an MMR ranking that they can't handle and frustrated.

Anyway, I hope it gets a huge rework as part of the health update.


  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557

    he also has yt videos showcasing “strongest killer builds” and runs noed on some killers and he even ran it in some of his streaks.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 923

    The argument isn't that NOED shouldn't be run. The argument is that it hinders new killers from learning the skills they need to have at higher MMR.

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557
    edited May 22

    I agree killers should learn without it. When I started I didn’t use ruin or noed.

  • TheSubstituteTheSubstitute Member Posts: 923
  • ShapedShaped Member Posts: 5,343
  • Buily09Buily09 Member Posts: 2,860
    edited May 22

    Meanwhile in Otz Sheet for Killer builds:

    Non-teachable builds are mostly for new players (No DLC, not much perks teached yet)

    You can find NOED in my builds for many killers there.

    I don't think it's great to keep NOED there for not so much experienced players because it's kinda like "you should play without it to learn the game" but "also you can run it it's good".

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,525

    I think a better way to address this whole NOED situation is not by nerfing the Perk itself, but by changing the way Dull Totems work slightly to help newer players and solo Survivors to deal with them easier.

    I think we should have a distinct noise notification play for every player when the last Totem has been cleansed.

    This would have two big effects on solo Survivors and newer players:

    1. when the sound plays, they now know not to waste any more time trying to locate Totems anymore
    2. for as long as the sound has not played, they know that there is at least one Totem remaining on the map, meaning NOED is a possibility

    Both of these are information SWF groups have access to anyway, so this would also help bringing solo Survivors and SWF groups closer together.

    A rework for NOED is something that, if it is done right, I can definitely get behind, but IMO such a rework should not make the Perk any weaker than it currently is - but more fair (for both sides) by having its strength vary based on how many Totems remain on the map with the Perk active.

  • dictepdictep Member Posts: 1,176

    Nah, they should give noed the same love they give to MoM

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 2,557
    edited May 22

    they did

    noed was nerfed numerous times into the nerfed hex version we have today and they still complain

  • MilMansonMilManson Member Posts: 939

    I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.

  • dictepdictep Member Posts: 1,176

    when was the last time you see MoM? Or new OoO? Because I see noed a lot

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,525

    First and foremost, what @DrDeepwound said is correct. Hex: No one Escapes Death is one of the Perks with the longest change history in the whole game, mostly nerfs at that.

    And it actually did go through the exact same journey that old Mettle of Man went through: it started out as a Perk that just passively activated with a gamechanging effect that had no counterplay to it whatsoever and is now in a spot where said effect is bound to Totems, which allows counterplay from the Survivor side - just like they bound MoM's effect to protection hits to allow for counterplay from the Killerside.

    And secondly, due to this previous change history, current NOED is not at all comparable to MoM anymore. Comparing the two is like comparing apples with oranges, it doesn't work. And pick rates have absolutely nothing to do with this, I really dont know why you decided to bring that up.

  • BrokenbonesBrokenbones Member Posts: 3,891

    I don't think Otz's overall point was 'Don't use NOED'.

    I think his point is 'Don't rely on noed to get kills instead of learning to get better with powers & killer pressure'

    Which I think is a valid point

  • drsoontmdrsoontm Member Posts: 2,543

    Otz is nice but has an hard time putting himself in the place of players with 7000 less hours of experience than him.

    NOED is fine btw.

  • drsoontmdrsoontm Member Posts: 2,543

    Probably because there are way better OP perks for survivors. That will change.

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