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If You Want Less Tunnelers, Add A Reason Not To Tunnel

I honestly don't think adding more perks or more ways for SURVIVORS to avoid tunneling is going to change anything. The biggest reason WHY tunneling is usually happening and the main priority for killers? There's literally no incentive to actually going for multiple hooks on multiple people.


There's no reason to, unless the team is quite clearly very bad and you can get away with it, all you're doing is wasting time and getting your gens blasted through if you're trying to go for hooks. It just doesn't work against good players.


If you want killers to tunnel less, add an actual reason for them to go for hooks on someone else. Why would I waste time to go for that full HP Nea who has zero hooks, if I can just go for the Feng who just got off the hook and is vulnerable. Why would I waste time for something that won't give me an advantage, if I can quickly get someone completely out of the game and will actually help me get some pressure.


It's less about tunneling being too strong and more about the fact that going for multiple hooks is too weak of a strat and just doesn't work. And this is coming from a guy that mostly plays terrible killers and still goes for hooks a majority of the time, or at least will full on leave hooks and try not to tunnel as much as possible. But if I feel like winning some day? I have to tunnel. Not because I want to, but it's because I HAVE to if I want to stay competitive and try to win, without getting completely washed.

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Comments

  • Vyne456Vyne456 Member Posts: 847

    The main problem about tunneling is that either the killer's new or they had enough with survivors that bully in the game to make the killer so pissed off.

    If you are playing as survivors and then you see the killer tunneling then use a flashlight save.

  • HexPleaseLetMeSpeakHexPleaseLetMeSpeak Member Posts: 276
    edited June 28

    But see that's my problem, I don't think tunneling is a thing you should put in the hands of the survivor to solve, it is their issue in terms of they have to deal with it, but it's also not THEIR issue, you get me?


    Making tunneling worse, will just leave killers with NO good strat. Perks with tokens clearly didn't work as going for multiple hooks was still bad. Unless they start reworking token perks into having MUCH better rewards as compared to now, then yea maybe. But how long will we have to wait for that? It already took them years to solve dead hard.

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 286

    It would be nice, for example, if after hooking a survivor who was not unhooked for 30 seconds, then all genes were blocked for 15 - 20 seconds, or the actions of the survivors were slowed down by 50% for 15-20 seconds. And it should be in the basic kit!

  • DeathstrokeDeathstroke Member Posts: 1,600

    You don't neccesary need to super tunnel one out to win game but you don't either have to go for hooking everyone twice or something before killing. Something between can work very well and actually even better than straight out tunneling one at start. Going for multiple hooks allows you to also find who is weakest link and you can take target him more than others.

  • AdjathaAdjatha Member Posts: 1,725

    They actively TOOK AWAY a reason for killers not to tunnel by removing the tokens from BBQ & Chili.

    Perks like Grim Embrace completely miss the point that hooking each survivor once can take a REALLY long time to do, between the size of maps, the ability of survivors to hide, all the gen work going on while a killer is trying to find a new chase, and the sheer length of time it takes to down any one survivor, much less all four. The point of BBQ was that it gave you a great reward after the game was over, so it didn't matter that it took you 80% of the game to get to it.

    No Way Out gives you an end-of-game bonus, but one that typically means maybe 1 or 2 extra hooks. Usually, it's just a little bit more time to use NOED (which has been nerfed and will now be much easier for survivors to take down without having to spend time on totems during the gen phase of the game). It certainly has uses, but even if you don't get all 4, you're still getting some bonus, which makes it less critical to disrupt the normal flow of the game.

    Grim Embrace, on the other hand, is a complete failure. In balanced matches, you typically don't get a hook on each survivor until there are 2 or often even 1 gen left. At that point, blocking progress for a brief while isn't actually stealing that much time from the survivor team. AND you get nothing if you can't get all four before the last gen pops, which is flat out worse than NWO or (old) BBQ. The perk ought to block all progress for a length of time each time a new survivor gets hooked, and increase that length of time with each token, until the 4th one blocks gens (usually the last one anyway) for a much longer period.

    But really, what the main issue is: there should be a REASON not to try to drive a single survivor out of the game as quickly as possible. And what that comes down to is: survivors who have been hooked, should not be as efficient as ones who haven't. A survivor who has been hooked should repair gens WAY slower than untouched survivors. That encourages killers to track down and one-hook each survivor as their absolute top priority.

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 286

    For example, the new Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain motivate the killer at the beginning of the match to hook all the survivors on the hook once as quickly as possible. After all, he has a good passive ability. If the Survivor has ever hooked on the Scourge Hook, they suffer an action penalty while wounded until they are healed. We need more of these perks.

  • The_C12H15NO2The_C12H15NO2 Member Posts: 327

    BHVR gave survivors base kit BT, that's a reason...

    Idk if that's enough to incentivize killers to bail on a camp/tunnel strat though. Map design is a huge problem for almost all killers. Instead of addressing map balance they are giving out band aids in the form of perks and new killers all of some form of teleport. Map balance is more important than perks.

    that being said, i'm looking forward to seeing the changes. a lot of needed changes in favor of the killer side. we'll see if it's enough to make playing killer to win any less sweaty.

  • tendyhandstendyhands Member Posts: 268

    Hiding in a locker all game would be too strong. So can you do that? No because they added an in game mechanic to make it a bad idea. Should do the same for tunneling and camping, this isn't complicated.

  • KrazzikKrazzik Member Posts: 601
    edited June 28

    Instead of 10 more seconds per gen they should have made hook states slow that survivor's gen speeds. That outright encourages the killer to spread hook states.

    As you said right now tunelling is pretty much ALWAYS the best thing killers can do, even with DS and BT in the game.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,822

    I had a concept for that. The problem is that hooks dont affect the teams ability until the point the first person is out. So, instead:, the first time a survivor is hooked, he get a gen speed malus, the secend time a smaller one, and the 3rd time the remaining survivors get a bonus out of his dead. That way, there is an incentive to spread hooks.

  • HexPleaseLetMeSpeakHexPleaseLetMeSpeak Member Posts: 276

    But like I said with the other guy, tunneling isn't a problem that the survivors need to solve. It's not gonna change with giving them things to combat it. All you're doing is making the only viable strat killers have worse, which then leaves them with nothing to which killer just becomes garbage and useless to play which it already practically feels like now.


    Yes but making tunneling useless doesn't change anything. You've now just removed the only viable strat killers had to stay competitive. The issue isn't tunneling is too strong, the issue is that everything else is too weak.

  • MozicMozic Member Posts: 601

    Perks with tokens clearly didn't work? BBQ was the most-used perk by killers, and No Way Out is crazy effective! The trick is that these perks are only effective if they aid you in the lategame or postgame, as there's a built-in acknowledgement that you're not likely to get value out of it otherwise. It's more accurate to say that they have a relatively narrow range of application, since I think with this exact update hitting the PTB there's an implicit acknowledgement that perks can't really be expected to maintain the game's health (see Pop Goes the Weasel being a stellar incentive to leave hooks, but answers to Pop led to a decrease in usage and the incentive became less common)


    And tunneling is absolutely the survivor's problem to solve - the killer is supposed to chase survivors. Useful obsession-based or token-based perks may shape their mental arithmetic on who to chase, but otherwise it'll usually default to "whoever's closest" or in some cases "whoever is most annoying to me". Survivors have a ton of resources available to interfere with tunneling - perks, bodyblocking, harassing pickups, and even just taking full advantage of being left unpressured to breeze through uncontested gens. Introducing a basekit reason for killers to need to perform some kind of enforced round robin ordering of hooking would be a lot similar to forcing survivors to repair specific generators in a certain order. You might need to apply some forethought to avoiding a 3-gen (or in the killer's case, avoid DS and other anti-tunneling measures) but over-engineering a solution could become tedious and lead to a lot more 'bad behavior' than you started with.


    It's much better to respect the incentives the game's basic win conditions have cemented and work to make it mutually enjoyable - which means fairer, not more technical.

  • HexPleaseLetMeSpeakHexPleaseLetMeSpeak Member Posts: 276

    Literally where am I advocating for survivors nerfs???? I'm literally asking for killer buffs, hello? It's like you didn't even read.


    DS, OTR, AND BT are not GOOD reasons to go for someone else. Killing the camping / tunneling strat does not make going for someone else suddenly better. All it does is kill the only viable strat killers have to stay competitive. Tunneling is not an issue for survivors to solve with perks and base kit changes. It's literally the fact that going for multiple people is a disadvantage across the board. There are literally ZERO positives to going for multiple hooks on multiple people, outside of token perks and even then, the effects of the token perks aren't even good enough to WARRANT going for someone else.

  • dreamsy10dreamsy10 Member Posts: 139
    edited June 28

    Yep, thats the mains problem with the game. They keep making big maps for some reason, instead of making and cutting em down like coal tower / wreckers yard size.

    And then maps like the game with 40 pallets, which most of them safe and god pallets.

    The new map literally is a pallet heaven aswell, a pain for m1 killers; and not to talk about the main building.

    Killer mains expect to be genrushed now since corrupt is kinda gone, pop is dead, ruin is 'ruined' and others. Yes for low level this update is good, but for mid/high level players, playing killer will be a pain. (that's why they even added bp bonus to matchmaking since will be less killers. 100%)

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 2,308

    Nerfing survivors and buffing killers have practically identical outcomes.

    Killing the camping / tunneling strat does not make going for someone else suddenly better.

    No, but that's not the point.

    There are literally ZERO positives to going for multiple hooks on multiple people

    But here's the thing: Even if you had a 100% success rate with 12-hooking, it'd still be MORE efficient and effective to tunnel, camp and slug. Those three strats break the fundamental bases of the game, and they will continue to do so until they are burdened with so many countermeasures that they are no longer the better option.

  • DaddyMyers_MoriDaddyMyers_Mori Member Posts: 374

    Well, with BBQ nerf we have less reasons to not tunnel...

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,263

    They could add a million reasons and you would still tunnel as long as that playstyle remains available.

  • dreamsy10dreamsy10 Member Posts: 139

    Not true. Most of killer's tunnel because survivor objective are way faster than killer's objective. Killer's are punished for hooking survivors. Time to enter a chase, time to down a survivor, time to go to a hook = 1/2 gens at least if you play against decent team.

    And then what killer's get for that hook? Nothing, especially when they nerfed pop to the ground, and scourge hooks arent even reliable since they can be on the other side of the map; plus now they nerfed the pain resonance, killer's can't even know at which gen to go.

  • rvzrvzrvzrvzrvzrvz Member Posts: 538

    If someone run new OTR + DS you can still tunnel him hard but you're gonna lose a lot of time and probably lose the game, you can counter these perks easily by going for someone else.. it's already highly encouraged.

    They're probably buffing thanatophobia for the same reason it's a good perk only if you try to injure everyone

  • HexPleaseLetMeSpeakHexPleaseLetMeSpeak Member Posts: 276

    Making tunneling worse doesn't suddenly make going for other people good. All you do is kill the only viable strat killers have.

  • The_C12H15NO2The_C12H15NO2 Member Posts: 327

    Right, i agree with you. my initial comment was sarcastic. More killers are tunnel/camping b/c that's the best way to get kills. I'm actually not happy that survivors get base BT now. I normally play mostly survivor right now b/c killer just sucks to play. Honestly i think base kit BT will encourage more unsafe saves by survivors which can very quickly result in more tunneling. But we'll see, i mean, lowered cooldowns on basic killer actions and 10 seconds more gen speed is going to help. I'll try killer again once this patch launches.

  • rvzrvzrvzrvzrvzrvz Member Posts: 538

    I don't really care tbh I think it's healthy for the game to give strong counters against tunneling, I avoid it as much as possible unless I play against a super toxic teabagger or something, I play killers that can teleport like dredge just to leave the hook quickly, some perks even synergize with that playstyle like make your choice and BBQ,

    I'm sorry when I play surv I hate going against cringy sweatlords that tunnel 1 guy for the whole game, especially blights and spirits it's just disgusting

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 286

    Or make hooking different survivors more efficient than hooking an unhooked survivor.

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