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FEATURE: Killer has the option to Block SWF...

Hey,

This is my first post to these forums, but judging from how people act on other DBD forums (reddit, etc.) - I'm sure I'll be flamed to death for even suggesting something different - but I hope the Devs see this and at least consider it.

Let me start by saying that I'm a SURVIVOR main, I almost never play killer. I've had the game for over a year and haven't played killer nearly at all in that time. Just recently I started to get more into the idea of player killer for a game or two a night.

I've noticed that when playing survivor I have to wait SO LONG to get into a match - and then it's with a killer who's internet speed is in red and will have me bouncing all over the maps. So, quit and try again, it can take the better part of a half an hour just to get into a game.

Yet when I play killer I don't have to wait a minute before 4 SWF teabaggers instantly load in.

The point being: That lots of people are playing survivor and few playing killer - Probably due to not wanting to be out balanced and communicated by 4 SWF A-holes.

I'M READY FOR THE FLAMES HERE...

Because you suck, get better at killer, etc. - probably all coming from SWF survivor mains!

Here's the thing:

I'm a survivor main that doesn't ever play SWF, I get stuck with idiot teammates all the time, and don't have communication advantages - plus I can't coordinate with other people on what perks we'll use and items we'll use, etc. I respect the killer and don't teabag, etc. - I'm not 12 years old. And...

TO THE DEVS:

I'm a CASUAL player, from what I understand your core demographic. I like playing survivor better, yet I would play a game or two of killer a night being that I've had the game for long enough, but I tend not to because of the overall attitude and survivor advantages.

Could you please add a feature to block SWF for killers?!

I know that that may take away from what your bread and butter is - tons of tea bagging SWG groups who might not get as many matches to play, but...

There are plenty of killers who don't care and would play SWF anyway (especially at higher ranks).

Please do this for people like me who love the game, love your new ideas - but who may stop playing because of horrendously long wait times for survivor (only to play with idiots) and SWF groups overrunning and annoying killers.

«1

Comments

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @ClickNinja said:
    Hey,

    This is my first post to these forums, but judging from how people act on other DBD forums (reddit, etc.) - I'm sure I'll be flamed to death for even suggesting something different - but I hope the Devs see this and at least consider it.

    Let me start by saying that I'm a SURVIVOR main, I almost never play killer. I've had the game for over a year and haven't played killer nearly at all in that time. Just recently I started to get more into the idea of player killer for a game or two a night.

    I've noticed that when playing survivor I have to wait SO LONG to get into a match - and then it's with a killer who's internet speed is in red and will have me bouncing all over the maps. So, quit and try again, it can take the better part of a half an hour just to get into a game.

    Yet when I play killer I don't have to wait a minute before 4 SWF teabaggers instantly load in.

    The point being: That lots of people are playing survivor and few playing killer - Probably due to not wanting to be out balanced and communicated by 4 SWF A-holes.

    I'M READY FOR THE FLAMES HERE...

    Because you suck, get better at killer, etc. - probably all coming from SWF survivor mains!

    Here's the thing:

    I'm a survivor main that doesn't ever play SWF, I get stuck with idiot teammates all the time, and don't have communication advantages - plus I can't coordinate with other people on what perks we'll use and items we'll use, etc. I respect the killer and don't teabag, etc. - I'm not 12 years old. And...

    TO THE DEVS:

    I'm a CASUAL player, from what I understand your core demographic. I like playing survivor better, yet I would play a game or two of killer a night being that I've had the game for long enough, but I tend not to because of the overall attitude and survivor advantages.

    Could you please add a feature to block SWF for killers?!

    I know that that may take away from what your bread and butter is - tons of tea bagging SWG groups who might not get as many matches to play, but...

    There are plenty of killers who don't care and would play SWF anyway (especially at higher ranks).

    Please do this for people like me who love the game, love your new ideas - but who may stop playing because of horrendously long wait times for survivor (only to play with idiots) and SWF groups overrunning and annoying killers.

    The answer has always been no and they talked about it in the last dev stream that swf was always an intended feature. They're not going to cater to a very small minority of the games player base since it's not worth the time or the effort.

    You say you're a survivor main but these comments just scream killer main instead.

    Yet when I play killer I don't have to wait a minute before 4 SWF teabaggers instantly load in.

    The point being: That lots of people are playing survivor and few playing killer - Probably due to not wanting to be out balanced and communicated by 4 SWF A-holes.

    Because you suck, get better at killer, etc. - probably all coming from SWF survivor mains!

    I know that that may take away from what your bread and butter is -** tons of tea bagging** SWG groups who might not get as many matches to play, but...

    Yeah that looks like the common killer main complaints on here many of which have debunked repeatedly because many are just excuses.

    I lost so it must've been because every game I get this:

    4 man SWF swat team.
    4 man DS/flashlight/SB/UE/ insert w/e perk you want to use as an excuse.
    4 man tea baggers every game
    etc etc etc.

    Using the last known data point 70% of matches are some kind of SWF either 2,3, or 4 person groups with the rest all solo. This is from Last year and we're currently waiting for new updated statistics.

    4 strangers = 30%
    2 friends + 2 strangers = 34.1%
    2 friends + 2 friends = 9.5%
    3 friends + 1 stranger = 17.9%
    4 friends = 8.5%

    That's 64.1% of all games only have 2 SWF in them.

    So to say every game is a man SWF all tea baggers is flat out untrue, you're also not getting 4 man SWF's every game either.

    Now onto the wait times, that issue has mostly been fixed and the only times you'll really run into longer wait times are during the following times.

    During events when everyone wants to play one side similar to the Halloween event, during PTB testing when lots of people are on the PTB.

    You'll also have longer wait times depending on the time of day, around holidays due to people travelling, storms or outages in a particular area etc.

    Now as someone who plays both sides I've got no issues really getting a lobby as either side and when one does have longer time I just swap over to other side.

    This has nothing to do with SWF causing issues as much as it does other factors, if you can't get a lobby swap over. Again they won't cater to the minority here since it doesn't make sense and the killers opting out of SWF will just opt right back in when they find they have to wait 2 hours for a lobby.

  • MrMyersMrMyers Member Posts: 43

    Leave?

  • AvarikuAvariku Member Posts: 603
    honestly I would love to see a mode where its just solo survivors... it would make a good base for comparing statistics too.
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @Avariku said:
    honestly I would love to see a mode where its just solo survivors... it would make a good base for comparing statistics too.

    Thats what ranked mode shuold be.

  • ClickNinjaClickNinja Member Posts: 39

    To the first reply on this thread, I am really a survivor main and I play on PS4 between 10:00 PM to 1:00 AM Eastern time, so maybe it's just the time of day that I'm on but whether it's earlier (like just after 10:00) or later:

    If I create a killer room 4 survivors instantly load in. Yet I'm waiting for 5 to 10 minutes or more sometimes for a survivor game as a single player. And this seems to be all the time, not during events, etc.

  • ClickNinjaClickNinja Member Posts: 39

    I just want to reiterate that the devs say that they want to make the game fun for casual players, I myself am a CASUAL player - whether I'm playing survivor or killer. If you piss off all of the casual killers, you game has problems.

    Here'a an example from a rank 1 killer:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=38baual-f20

  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,177

    Well, then SWF would be stuck with insanely long que times because most killers will have them blocked, ESPECIALLY at high rank.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 580
    edited December 2018

    @MrMyers said:
    Leave?

    You know what, the first time I bought this game, my first matches instantly threw me into the most cancerous toxic little [BAD WORD] I've ever seen that even trumped league of legends cancerous community. Everything from flashlights, to speed hacks, to cursing out their own team mates went down in those games....and that was from this year.....
    I woulda left this game back then and got a refund.....but they had a decent report system so I dunno, maybe all those shits got banned....
    People leaving, and telling people to leave, doesn't help my pigs queue times....nor does it paint this community with any sort of attraction for people to get into the game.

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 3,294

    If the killer could chose to block SWF then lobbies would be more [BAD WORD] on both sides. Like it or not SWF is a necessary evil.

  • BeanieEnthusiastBeanieEnthusiast Member Posts: 213

    Yeah and then good luck EVER finding a game with your friends in SWF. Think before you talk please.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 580

    @ClickNinja said:
    Hey,

    This is my first post to these forums, but judging from how people act on other DBD forums (reddit, etc.) - I'm sure I'll be flamed to death for even suggesting something different - but I hope the Devs see this and at least consider it.

    Let me start by saying that I'm a SURVIVOR main, I almost never play killer. I've had the game for over a year and haven't played killer nearly at all in that time. Just recently I started to get more into the idea of player killer for a game or two a night.

    I've noticed that when playing survivor I have to wait SO LONG to get into a match - and then it's with a killer who's internet speed is in red and will have me bouncing all over the maps. So, quit and try again, it can take the better part of a half an hour just to get into a game.

    Yet when I play killer I don't have to wait a minute before 4 SWF teabaggers instantly load in.

    The point being: That lots of people are playing survivor and few playing killer - Probably due to not wanting to be out balanced and communicated by 4 SWF A-holes.

    I'M READY FOR THE FLAMES HERE...

    Because you suck, get better at killer, etc. - probably all coming from SWF survivor mains!

    Here's the thing:

    I'm a survivor main that doesn't ever play SWF, I get stuck with idiot teammates all the time, and don't have communication advantages - plus I can't coordinate with other people on what perks we'll use and items we'll use, etc. I respect the killer and don't teabag, etc. - I'm not 12 years old. And...

    TO THE DEVS:

    I'm a CASUAL player, from what I understand your core demographic. I like playing survivor better, yet I would play a game or two of killer a night being that I've had the game for long enough, but I tend not to because of the overall attitude and survivor advantages.

    Could you please add a feature to block SWF for killers?!

    I know that that may take away from what your bread and butter is - tons of tea bagging SWG groups who might not get as many matches to play, but...

    There are plenty of killers who don't care and would play SWF anyway (especially at higher ranks).

    Please do this for people like me who love the game, love your new ideas - but who may stop playing because of horrendously long wait times for survivor (only to play with idiots) and SWF groups overrunning and annoying killers.

    I upvoted this post....but only because I think theres a bigger underlying problem revolving around certain killers lacking the versatility or pressure to deal with SWF groups, aka (the non threatening killers) the ones who are clearly broken or gimpy in some way that just can't stand up to managing more than 1 person at a time or who have a broken mechanic that can be ignored as part of their base kit. AKA freddy, and soon to be Legion. I've never had problems with SWF as pig, or spirit, and im pretty sure if I got my hands on doc he'd be in the same boat. But for killers who aren't them, and don't have the ability to manipulate survivors into killing themselves (which is honestly the best way to deal with SWF groups) they might leave the match with 2 kills tops. Or if the SWF group is just goofing around they get a 4k. Most SWF groups are goofing around or don't even go into a set of 4 people. Most of the time you're dealing with a two man team, or a 3 man team.

  • BroosmeisterBroosmeister Member Posts: 281
    Killers who leave when they see swf are weak and should play Fortnite. I leave when i see 4 toolboxes. That's about it. Swf are annoying af sometimes bit they are very altuiristic most of the time.

    But dodging swf is so annoying for survivors because the wait time for a lobby is already idiotically long, and you finally find someone and he leaves because he is scared. I'm on ps4 and matchmaking is hell on earth and there you have some baby killer dodging a lobby because 2 or more people can talk to each other.

    If you're not good at a game and can't handle a loss, or don't even want to give it a try. Then don't play it.
  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654
    Funny when people claim SWFs are easy.
    But when you suggest a way to filter them out these people will also often say you don't want the challenge.
    That if we filtered them out, that it would destroy our community.
    That no one would play them even with so many people claiming never to dodge.

    If SWFs were easy, if they weren't toxic, we would not want them filtered out of our lobbies, would we? I mean if SWF difficulty, and manners were in line with 4 solos, there wouldn't be an issue, would there?

    But SWFs just had to start using game breaking strats.
    And just had to get toxic because those strats made their game so easy.
  • ClickNinjaClickNinja Member Posts: 39

    @BeanieEnthusiast said:
    Yeah and then good luck EVER finding a game with your friends in SWF. Think before you talk please.

    As I said in the first post on this thread, I don't ever play SWF. Read before YOU talk please.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @Rebel_Raven said:
    Funny when people claim SWFs are easy.
    But when you suggest a way to filter them out these people will also often say you don't want the challenge.
    That if we filtered them out, that it would destroy our community.
    That no one would play them even with so many people claiming never to dodge.

    If SWFs were easy, if they weren't toxic, we would not want them filtered out of our lobbies, would we? I mean if SWF difficulty, and manners were in line with 4 solos, there wouldn't be an issue, would there?

    But SWFs just had to start using game breaking strats.
    And just had to get toxic because those strats made their game so easy.

    Most killers seem to have no issue with SWF and fin them relatively easy because we don't dodge them and we use their teamwork against them.

    You don't want the challenge else why would you want the filter?

    You'd split off a huge part of the playerbase just to please a vocal minority and the ones hurt would be the majority of the player base that plays for fun. You know the majority of the player base that's swf that keeps this game going.

    So go ahead and destroy the game just to please yourself, when people stop playing the game and stop buying it oh sure you'll feel great you stopped the swf menace. But hey you'll have a company in financial ruin that won't survive like F13 and Death Garden.

    Then you'll never have to ever worry about facing swf in your lobbies ever again because you won't have a game anymore because you drove all those players away.

    I'd have no issue playing SWF if you vocal minority got forever stuck in a solo only lobby and could never ever come back. My lobbies would be insanely fast as would the others that've stated we don't have an issue with it because we don't cower in fear of swf.

    It might actually not be as bad as feared, at least for the killers that stayed since we could get steamrolled and in those magical 3 minute matches that you all seem to magically believe happen every match. But even if it did happen we'd be rolling in bp non stop while you lot would be fighting over the small amount of people that'd play solo only.

    If I ever win the lottery big time I'd pay BHVR good money just to have them set up a solo only lobby system and then give you lot the choice. You'd get your solo lobby only system but you'd have to agree to be stuck there forever and could never queue up as a killer for anything but solo lobbies.

    Oh your lobby wait times are too long oh well you got what you asked for and now that you got it don't like it and want to queue up for swf. Well too bad you don't get to versus them anymore nor dodge them just to lobby shop. You're stuck in solo lobbies only forever unless you buy another copy of the game, because you got what you asked for.

    But every time I've suggested something like this I've gotten the usual hem and hawing like well we shouldn't have to be forced into that. Well that's what you wanted isn't it, you want a solo only lobby, but yes that's what we want but we want to be able to versus swf when lobby times are too long.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654

    @powerbats said:

    @Rebel_Raven said:
    Funny when people claim SWFs are easy.
    But when you suggest a way to filter them out these people will also often say you don't want the challenge.
    That if we filtered them out, that it would destroy our community.
    That no one would play them even with so many people claiming never to dodge.

    If SWFs were easy, if they weren't toxic, we would not want them filtered out of our lobbies, would we? I mean if SWF difficulty, and manners were in line with 4 solos, there wouldn't be an issue, would there?

    But SWFs just had to start using game breaking strats.
    And just had to get toxic because those strats made their game so easy.

    Most killers seem to have no issue with SWF and fin them relatively easy because we don't dodge them and we use their teamwork against them.

    You don't want the challenge else why would you want the filter?

    You'd split off a huge part of the playerbase just to please a vocal minority and the ones hurt would be the majority of the player base that plays for fun. You know the majority of the player base that's swf that keeps this game going.

    So go ahead and destroy the game just to please yourself, when people stop playing the game and stop buying it oh sure you'll feel great you stopped the swf menace. But hey you'll have a company in financial ruin that won't survive like F13 and Death Garden.

    Then you'll never have to ever worry about facing swf in your lobbies ever again because you won't have a game anymore because you drove all those players away.

    I'd have no issue playing SWF if you vocal minority got forever stuck in a solo only lobby and could never ever come back. My lobbies would be insanely fast as would the others that've stated we don't have an issue with it because we don't cower in fear of swf.

    It might actually not be as bad as feared, at least for the killers that stayed since we could get steamrolled and in those magical 3 minute matches that you all seem to magically believe happen every match. But even if it did happen we'd be rolling in bp non stop while you lot would be fighting over the small amount of people that'd play solo only.

    If I ever win the lottery big time I'd pay BHVR good money just to have them set up a solo only lobby system and then give you lot the choice. You'd get your solo lobby only system but you'd have to agree to be stuck there forever and could never queue up as a killer for anything but solo lobbies.

    Oh your lobby wait times are too long oh well you got what you asked for and now that you got it don't like it and want to queue up for swf. Well too bad you don't get to versus them anymore nor dodge them just to lobby shop. You're stuck in solo lobbies only forever unless you buy another copy of the game, because you got what you asked for.

    But every time I've suggested something like this I've gotten the usual hem and hawing like well we shouldn't have to be forced into that. Well that's what you wanted isn't it, you want a solo only lobby, but yes that's what we want but we want to be able to versus swf when lobby times are too long.

    Filtering SWFs will destroy the game
    or
    There's enough killers that won't dodge so the game will be ok.

    Pick one.
    You aren't going to have your cake and eat it, too.

    While we're at it:

    SWFS are easy
    or
    SWFs are a challenge

    pick one.

    It seems like every time, you're just contradicting yourself in blindly defending SWFs, pretending they're perfect, and can do no wrong.
    You keep normalizing your experiences to everyone else's and refuse to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. That really kinda takes the winds out of your sails on these tirades.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @Rebel_Raven said:

    Filtering SWFs will destroy the game
    or
    There's enough killers that won't dodge so the game will be ok.

    Pick one.
    You aren't going to have your cake and eat it, too.

    While we're at it:

    SWFS are easy
    or
    SWFs are a challenge

    pick one.

    It seems like every time, you're just contradicting yourself in blindly defending SWFs, pretending they're perfect, and can do no wrong.
    You keep normalizing your experiences to everyone else's and refuse to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. That really kinda takes the winds out of your sails on these tirades.

    I'm using the same logic most of the vocal minority killer mains use which is use both sides of the argument to my favor.

    You also missed where I very clearly said "It might actually not be as bad as feared"

    In either case the biggest losers are still going to be either just you and the rest of the vocal minority or the entire community because most of the player base leaves.

    But hey you'll never have to worry about swf ever again, oh sure you're lobby times will either be insane or you won't have a lobby.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654

    @powerbats said:

    @Rebel_Raven said:

    Filtering SWFs will destroy the game
    or
    There's enough killers that won't dodge so the game will be ok.

    Pick one.
    You aren't going to have your cake and eat it, too.

    While we're at it:

    SWFS are easy
    or
    SWFs are a challenge

    pick one.

    It seems like every time, you're just contradicting yourself in blindly defending SWFs, pretending they're perfect, and can do no wrong.
    You keep normalizing your experiences to everyone else's and refuse to put yourself in anyone else's shoes. That really kinda takes the winds out of your sails on these tirades.

    I'm using the same logic most of the vocal minority killer mains use which is use both sides of the argument to my favor.

    You also missed where I very clearly said "It might actually not be as bad as feared"

    In either case the biggest losers are still going to be either just you and the rest of the vocal minority or the entire community because most of the player base leaves.

    But hey you'll never have to worry about swf ever again, oh sure you're lobby times will either be insane or you won't have a lobby.

    Got an example of these killers using both sides of the argument to their favor?
    And I'm sure your using the tactic in the debate is working just as well on others as it works on you.

    I didn't miss that part at all. That's you "using both sides" to your favor as you say, I guess. If not the usual flip flopping.

    Here we go again. Helping people dodge SWFs will destroy the game!
    But hey, maybe it won't and it'll just be the SWF dodgers that suffer?!
    Flip flop again.

    I'd like to believe my stance on SWF is pretty stable at least since it doesn't really seem that way in replies.
    Allow dodging via either filters or labels and/or make it worth putting up with them (I feel like we can at least agree on bonuses for going against them?) which, either way will help stamp out excuses to blame SWFs when it was just 4 good players. I'd like to see those excuses gone, too. Less variables. And less variables means it's easier to see where you screwed up. Kinda like the NC nerfs so they can balance characters that usually rely on them with a clearer picture of weak points.
    Was it indeed an SWF that did that well, or was it 4 non communicating players?
    At the least seeing a bonus like "SWF x 2,3,4" popping up will work as a post game label. A killer that doesn't see that can't blame an SWF. The slim possibility of the survivors creating a party to chat (I get invites every so often to quasi SWF against killers, and I refuse) may exist, but it should help lower complaints against SWFs.

    Then again if SWFs are super common, as you say they are, super willing to be ruthless, and super willing to be toxic with less to no ability to dodge them (I.E. the new match making's camouflage) these people unhappy will continue to complain as they're expected to go from casual to MLG at the drop of a hat as they can't always detect the potential difficulty spikes.
    Some people kinda hate that. Having to get sweaty on the fly. And if they don't, or can't go MLG then, well, they're going to get beaten down and probably walk out with, as it is, very poor amounts of blood points, and more motive to complain.
    And lets not forget the game is still not balanced around SWFs. And may never be.

    And you still have no apparent intent on trying to see things from the points of views of others. Everyone has your arsenal, hours, and experience, or better! People less prepared to deal with SWFs just don't exist!
    I mean you do host teaching games, don't you? Or was that someone else I was thinking about? Sorry if it's not you that said that they hosted teaching games.
    You aughta know the less prepared exist. Especially since KYF wasn't mentioned meaning you get to see a spectrum of killers interact with the survivors you're teaching. Not being able to grasp what you no doubt see for yourself is baffling.

  • WaharaWahara Member Posts: 215

    Blocking SWF completely is a bit extreme.

    I just want the option to be able to see all of your perks. If you can call out wherever I'm going, I should get the advantage of preparing my build/add ons for what perks you're bringing to the table. Don't even TRY to tell me that's not fair.

  • ClickNinjaClickNinja Member Posts: 39

    Some great ideas, Rebel. I also wanted to add that if the option was in place to block SWF and the cue times were too long, killers would stop blocking SWF - Problem Solved. Nature solves it, just like Darwinism. So there's no reason not to at least have THE OPTION TO DO SO.

    BTW, currently on PS4 at the times I play - survivor cue times are ridiculous. Why? Because killers are sick of dealing with OP survive with friends. Just the idea of 4 people getting to pre-plan perks, items and add ons and getting to communicate the whole time against one person is inherently unfair, period.

    Besides, if your such a killer main, why protest anyway. The game's in no danger.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654

    @ClickNinja said:
    Some great ideas, Rebel. I also wanted to add that if the option was in place to block SWF and the cue times were too long, killers would stop blocking SWF - Problem Solved. Nature solves it, just like Darwinism. So there's no reason not to at least have THE OPTION TO DO SO.

    BTW, currently on PS4 at the times I play - survivor cue times are ridiculous. Why? Because killers are sick of dealing with OP survive with friends. Just the idea of 4 people getting to pre-plan perks, items and add ons and getting to communicate the whole time against one person is inherently unfair, period.

    Besides, if your such a killer main, why protest anyway. The game's in no danger.

    Huh, so it's not just me that has long survivor queues on ps4?

    I only solo as a survivor, and sometimes I end up on the tail end of a dodged lobby. I'm not mad even with the long queue.
    Tonight I ran into a weird match as a survivor that I guess had an SWF in it because there was a red rank (rank 2 IIRC) in with people around rank 10.

    Definitely sick of SWFs on this end when I play killer.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    Hybrid Panda on Youtube had a great idea where the Killer was notified who was SWF by a colored icon on their heads, sometimes it could be 2 people and sometimes 4. The biggest thing is not knowing they are SWF and when the final version of the new lobby system comes out on the live update EVERYONE will LOOK like a 4man SWF because everyone spawns in at the same time. So just having an icon for who actually is will prepare the Killer for who is communicating and who isn't.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071
    edited December 2018

    @Rebel_Raven said:

    Got an example of these killers using both sides of the argument to their favor?
    And I'm sure your using the tactic in the debate is working just as well on others as it works on you.

    The examples are all over the forum and you've commented in enough of the threads. also the tactic doesn't work on me so. I'm just pointing out how when the few killer mains on here use it and you don't call them on it.

    I didn't miss that part at all. That's you "using both sides" to your favor as you say, I guess. If not the usual flip flopping.

    No, I used the same logic the few killer mains on here used so no flip flopping and you're call me on using it yet stay silent about the others.

    Here we go again. Helping people dodge SWFs will destroy the game!
    But hey, maybe it won't and it'll just be the SWF dodgers that suffer?!
    Flip flop again.

    Wrong again, notice how you keep missing what I've said, I even re-posted what i'd said and you still ignored it.

    I'd like to believe my stance on SWF is pretty stable at least since it doesn't really seem that way in replies.

    Ok thanks for the clarification it does get confusing sometimes when debates go back and forth in different threads especially.

    Allow dodging via either filters or labels and/or make it worth putting up with them (I feel like we can at least agree on bonuses for going against them?) which, either way will help stamp out excuses to blame SWFs

    Agreed and I've been arguing for bonus bp for the last 7+ months so killers get a benefit based upon size of group. Heck they could even base it on the highest ranked player(s) and award it post game.

    when it was just 4 good players. I'd like to see those excuses gone, too. Less variables. And less variables means it's easier to see where you screwed up. Kinda like the NC nerfs so they can balance characters that usually rely on them with a clearer picture of weak points.

    Was it indeed an SWF that did that well, or was it 4 non communicating players?

    That's something I've been wanting to see and i posted about it in several other threads especially dealing with the latest devstream stats. Some of the more extreme survivor mains and I'm sure you know whom i'm talking about here. They made multiple threads and posts about how killers don't need buffs due to the survival rate being below 50%.

    Now these are also some of the same ones asking for no nerf to DS and also saying buff sabo to pre nerf levels etc.

    At the least seeing a bonus like "SWF x 2,3,4" popping up will work as a post game label. A killer that doesn't see that can't blame an SWF. The slim possibility of the survivors creating a party to chat (I get invites every so often to quasi SWF against killers, and I refuse) may exist, but it should help lower complaints against SWFs.

    I'd love for it to be bonus bp and you get to see a x modifier like you said but it's an overall number and doesn't show who was who to prevent the excuses like you said. I've been in solo lobbies where all 4 join upwards of 15-30 or more apart and we destroy the killer.

    I mean it looks like a depip squad experiment yet we're all solos and post game the swf excuse and insults comes up. It wasn't that the killer was just bad or that they played badly. No it couldn't have been that it had to be swf 4 man all DS/Sbo etc etc etc excuses.

    Then again if SWFs are super common, as you say they are, super willing to be ruthless, and super willing to be toxic with less to no ability to dodge them (I.E. the new match making's camouflage) these people unhappy will continue to complain as they're expected to go from casual to MLG at the drop of a hat as they can't always detect the potential difficulty spikes.

    But the toxicity isn't there as often as people say and I've never said that part is common and in fact have said the opposite. In fact Riot games and MIT did a study with controls and all to prove that the confirmation bias was there.

    In every case the person said most of their games were toxic and when asked for examples of the games where chat was bad they were proven wrong. Most of the games were fine they just made a bad play or lost a close one etc and yet they tied that into a negative experience.

    It was also a case of may'be a prior bad game made the next several games be remembered as being toxic when they weren't. They were even shown chat logs proving it wasn't toxic and in some case they'd been the toxic ones and thus got punished for it.

    Here it's the same thing, we get the bad experiences combined with the good ones and we remember the bad ones more because of our biases.

    Some people kinda hate that. Having to get sweaty on the fly. And if they don't, or can't go MLG then, well, they're going to get beaten down and probably walk out with, as it is, very poor amounts of blood points, and more motive to complain.
    And lets not forget the game is still not balanced around SWFs. And may never be.

    Most people don't try to play sweaty on either side, most are just playing to have fun, they don't go into the game with the intent to bully the killer despite the false belief they do.

    As far as balancing it's been aid countless time they want to buff solo up to SWF levels info wise then buff killers to match that. But the vocal minority here only sees survivor buffs and ignores the other part because they can't use swf as an excuse anymore if killers get buffed.

    And you still have no apparent intent on trying to see things from the points of views of others. Everyone has your arsenal, hours, and experience, or better! People less prepared to deal with SWFs just don't exist!

    I do but I also don't go for the entitlement of certain posters here who rant and rave and act like the game should revolve around them. I've also never said i've got an arsenal of hours and there's people with less experience than me and hours played.

    They also don't have an issue with swf, why they adapt and take the challenge head on and learn from their mistakes. They don't make excuses for their bad plays, they don't blame their losses on them not capitalizing on survivors mistakes.

    Then you've got the killers that've been here 2 +years and still dodge anything that looks like swf even though most of the time they're dodging non swf. They in fact want easier matches and if they see a lobby loadout they don't like they dodge and look for an easier lobby.

    They then claim it's swf they're dodging but at other times admit flat out they just want easier matches against people newer to the game or not very good and below their skill level.

    I mean you do host teaching games, don't you? Or was that someone else I was thinking about? Sorry if it's not you that said that they hosted teaching games.

    I've hosted teaching games in kyf before for people I've met both on here and in game to show them tips and tricks for both sides.

    You aughta know the less prepared exist. Especially since KYF wasn't mentioned meaning you get to see a spectrum of killers interact with the survivors you're teaching. Not being able to grasp what you no doubt see for yourself is baffling.

    I do know which is why I've helped people in kill your friends and walked them through how to do things. I've also talked extensively to both sides post game on tips and tricks and how to do things.

    I think the killer mains wanting an opt out need to be ready to accept responsibility if things don't go the way they think it will. If the majority of the player base is SWF and they stop playing because they either can't get lobbies or have to wait they'll simply stop playing all together.

    Those are the people most likely to spend money on Auric Cells, Cosmetics etc and also the ones who's money helps pay for those dedicated servers and improvements. It's the old adage don't cut off the hand that feeds you.

    The only way they should do a opt out is if you get stuck in it permanently unless you either buy a new copy or you pay a fee. That way you can't just hop into swef and troll/dodge because you won't like the challenge, can't break that bad habit etc.

  • laKUKAlaKUKA Member Posts: 307

    TOO many word wasted...
    SWF is a money maker...they're never going to eliminate it

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654

    @laKUKA said:
    TOO many word wasted...
    SWF is a money maker...they're never going to eliminate it

    Too true. I doubt we will get anything to help dodge SWFs and/or rewards for the higher difficulty they present.
    In fact the new match making will make it harder to detect SWFs. tadaa, even easier to fool people into thinking they're getting a fair shake in the trial.

    Truth be told I suspect they will push killers to the brink before even trying to balance them, if they ever do.
    Not just against SWFs, but against solos buffed to SWF levels.
    Hell, I bet the game will die before they deal with the issue.

    That said, it won't stop people from complaining.

    Aside from people complaining, I don't see why people are getting bent out of shape.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @Rebel_Raven They've already said they want to buff solo to SWF and then buff killers to that level it's how to get it right that's the problem. Buff them too much and they're stronger than SWF are, buff them too little and then the killer isn't right either.

    It's Goldilocks and the 3 Bears basically and getting it right is more important than doing it fast and wrong since you can't just tweak something one place without affecting a bunch of things someplace else.

  • WaharaWahara Member Posts: 215

    Buffing solo play to the level of SWF doesn't seem too hard, you could just make voice comms a built in feature of the game and every random player would that joins in with a group would be able to hear them and vice versa. Buffing killers to the level of SWF sounds like the tricky part.

    It would have to be a buff that's on par with SWF's ability to know where you are at nearly all times, and if the killer was given a buff of that kind of magnitude, I'm willing to bet my account that people would cry. What would end up happening is random groups would be brought up to the level of SWF and killers would be given a token buff kinda like the one's the legion is getting. Or, we'd end up having to fight and pull teeth for months until we get enough baby buffs until they got it right.

    Nerfing SWF by comparison seems like less of a headache.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654
    @powerbats

    Sorry, I don't ignore these examples of killers arguing both sides because frankly I don't always read them, and I certainly don't retain the info. 
    I'm still going to need those examples if you don't mind? 

    Again, I didn't ignore that part. 
    "You also missed where I very clearly said "It might actually not be as bad as feared"
    So, SWF dodging won't kill the game?

    "In either case the biggest losers are still going to be either just you and the rest of the vocal minority or the entire community because most of the player base leaves."

    So SWF dodging will kill them game?

    But hey you'll never have to worry about swf ever again, oh sure you're lobby times will either be insane or you won't have a lobby.

    So SWF dodging won't kill the game?

    SWF dodging has been going on for ages anyhow, and the game is still here anyhow. 

    No, no, the "SWF x2, 3, 4" is still far closer to perfect than not. 
    It will allow for a killer to realize what they were up against, and helps dampen unrealistic expectations. 
    Most cases it's pretty easy to tell who's part of the SWF and who isn't (It's the people doing the coordinated stuff), so even a vague x2 indicator would help manage expectations, and experiences.
    It won't account for strangers inviting eachother into game chats, but those aren't as common as SWF. I did look into how big the group was that invited me, though, and it was large enough to worry me. 

    It would be real easy to know who is in an SWF if they had a label by their name, but, well, I kinda have a strong idea of how you'd feel about that. 

    Yeah, 4 solos can destroy a killer, but the odds of getting 4 solos like that are rarer than getting an SWF. I mean you were shown stats that the overwhelming majority of lobbies have SWFs, right?
    And the combined might of the survivors in SWF means they don't have to be as good as a killer destroying soloist, and they especially don't have to be as good as 4 individual killer stompers.

    The MIT study means bupkis to me. It isn't important what the supposedly toxic team thinks, it actually revolves around the experiences of the person on the receiving end. If they feel the general experience of the game is toxic, there's not much you'll do to change their minds. 
    Also asymmetrical games are a different animal than most. 

    SWFs don't go into the match intending to bully, be toxic, etc? I can honestly say I've seen more evidence that that's false than not. 
    I.E. Remember that thread where a low lvl Leatherface went against an SWF of reds? Apparently the only thing that wasn't fun for the SWF was the level gap which was found out post match, and that was arguable for 3/4 of the team. 1/4 apologized post match by admission.
    Look at threads that focus on satisfying wins, and you'll see tons of tales of toxic SWFs. 
    Their usual "fun" IS bullying the killer for SWFs. Seeing how bad they can make the killer struggle before moving on to the next one.
    I have NEVER had a match where the survivors just left the trial without being chased out. Even when it was obvious I didn't want to do it.

    Here's a nail in the coffin. Toxicity/bullying is using external advantages to win a game. SWFs are extremely hard pressed to dodge that. 

    Killers kinda have reason to ignore "the last part" of the concept of buffing solos to SWF level, then Killers to to compensate because, well, the DS rework, the Freddy rework, the lingering issue of survivors seeing the killer's loadouts early, no real changes to help combat SWFs.
    What is there to give killers faith that they will be buffed in a timely fashion instead of having to wait who knows how long after the solo survivors are buffed?
    Oh, lets not forget the devs having this odd notion that not all killers need to be competitive. I.E. Legion who is basically a joke, yet is the newest killer. How long will Legion suffer until the devs realize Legion needs to offer something to the player?
    I mean, I wanna like Legion, but as Legion stands, unless I get monster BP, I don't really want to play as a killer who's among the worst at killing. 

    Oh, and Devs inserted SWFs while being pretty sure that it would screw up the balance in the first place.

    You pretty much do imply you have the hours, and arsenal to fight SWFs every time you brag you never dodge, that you in vs them, etc. etc. 
    Then there's the fact that you've probably been playing for more than a couple of months.

    I'm not a killer main. In fact I play survivor more than I do Killer. A large part of that is SWFs, and the headaches they provide.
    I want a fair shake, and an honest match, and SWFs generally are keen to deny me that by using communications/coordination which is underhanded.
    We all want that, don't we? A fair shake? A honest chance to win?
    Survivors don't want to end up facing omega blink super nurses with Ebony moris, or some such all the time do they?
    At the same time Killers don't always want to face a team that gets a half dozen free perks, and can coordinate in ways unnatural to the game all the time. 
    But you seemingly act like Killers just have to, or face harsh punishment. 

    I gotta say it. It's pretty BS to complain killers don't want a challenge facing SWFs while ignoring the fact that SWF games are easier by default.
    If survivors weren't afraid of a challenge they'd go solo. Or they would never DC, not even on laggy games. Or they would never blab the killer's perks. Or they'd suggest buffs for killers. Or they wouldn't use external programs to gain an advantage. Etc.
    Downplaying the advantages they get, if not ignoring them is detrimental to your argument.
    In other words, accusations of Killers not wanting to be challenged simply are meaningless in this case.

    SWFs have a bad rep for a reason. They wouldn't have that bad rep if they played more honestly. And there's juuuuust enough that play leaning towards underhanded that gives SWFs that bad name to keep the bad rep going.
    Ignoring that, or downplaying it is detrimental to your arguments.

    Then there's the elephant in the room. Killers aren't balanced to fight SWFs. The game isn't balanced around them. Sure you can win against SWFs, but that's a useless argument because the game isn't balanced around that level of play. Not everyone is going to have the MLG skills, or arsenal to do it, and it's less effort on the part of the survivors. 

    You want Killers to take responsibility for opting out? Then SWF supporters need to take responsibility for doing what SWFs do to have their bad rep and put up with people complaining about them at the absolute least. 

    Deciding to punish average, or below average players for not wanting to vs people playing with a boost is pretty [BAD WORD]. 
    Match making is supposed to work, and honestly SWFs should vs killers of higher rank than normal to compensate for the boosted power the SWF gets.

  • BeanieEnthusiastBeanieEnthusiast Member Posts: 213

    @BeanieEnthusiast said:
    Yeah and then good luck EVER finding a game with your friends in SWF. Think before you talk please.

    As I said in the first post on this thread, I don't ever play SWF. Read before YOU talk please.

    Yeah but this isn’t just about YOU. Think of everyone else that DOES play SWF you mong. THINK. BEFORE. YOU. TALK. 
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