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Thoughts about Legion & Ideas

Evening all,
So i've given Legion a good amount of matches and watched enough gameplay to get a good feel for the killer, hopefully some of you can relate to my thoughts and feelings for this quad-killer.

What's good:

  • It's a nice breath of fresh air to have a killer who is more human than the other non-licensed killers, we essentially have a killer like the villain from the film 'Hush', chasing down people and stabbing them until they go down, the humane feel to it is a nice feeling.

  • Cosmetically, the skins are beautiful. I purchased Joe the moment I saw it, nice and edgy.

  • Bravo to the devs for coming up with a unique ability, when I try to think of something new that could be balanced I fail, so bravo.

What's bad:

  • Hellishly reliant on add-ons at high rank, by God, if I don't have Frank's mixtape then i'm doomed, unless survivors make mistakes they will bully the hell out of me.

  • Deep wounds really feels weak without add-ons. I see what they expect us to do, frenzy one survivor, find another nearby, rinse and repeat so they can't do generators. This is possible, but it doesn't work as you think it would. I find two survivors, frenzy both of them and follow one of them, which means that only two survivors can currently be working on generators. Sadly, the survivor mends themselves pretty damn quickly and just continues healing like nothing ever happened.

  • The base movement speed forces me to rely on my ability unless the survivors make a serious mistake, which is rare at high rank for me. Combine that with the fact I have to hit a survivor four times in a chase to down them for one hook point is really tedious. I am aware that you can moonwalk and such to beat the survivor but is that really what we should be doing? When Michael Myers does his moonwalk it's for a joke.

  • When I play survivor and see the killer is Legion; I instantly think "Oh good." because of how assuring it is that i'll be able to snag good points and survive. There is no specific counter play to Legion, but you can lose handle him fairly easily if you have played survivor enough.

  • This is really my opinion, but it feels like Legion suffers more than others against a gen rush. Based on how long chases are with Legion (I believe I make few mistakes during chases), SWF's who gen rush bully the hell out of Legion. If I have to hit the survivor 2 or 3 times for a down, that's more than when I play any other killer.

Thoughts & Ideas to improve Legion:
People are welcome to agree or disagree, it's just my thoughts...

  • When chasing a survivor, the bleed out timer should tick however at a slower pace. This would mean that if the survivor doesn't lose Legion after a given amount of time, Legion only needs one more hit. This would reduce the average chase time and help Legion pick up some momentum after hooking a survivor.

  • Survivors who are mending should be revealed through Nurse's Calling. I think a lot of survivor mains wouldn't like this idea but it's a straight forward buff, need I explain more?

  • Increase the base movement speed as to allow Legion to make decent use of 'exposed'. DH, NOED etc. are practically useless on Legion, I gave it a go when I first started and it was just a waste of a perk slot. Buffing the base movement speed to the same as Freddy's would be a nice way to use the effect, as well as punish survivors who think they don't need to heal against Legion.

To wrap it up:
That's more or less all I can think of, the last two ideas for improvements would make him so much more viable in my head. I see a lot of people going into great detail with ideas for how to improve Legion's ability but in my opinion it doesn't have to be so complex. Legion feels weak without good perks and add-ons which is a shame. Hopefully some constructive feedback comes through, and the survivor mains move along with their biased opinions.

Comments

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,733

    I don't mind the 110% myself to be honest. But a honest to Entity good buff would be for Feral Frenzy to work with NoEd, then people will be like "OH S**T!"

    It pains me to say this, but I don't think the timer should go down while being chased. Everything else is solid though.

  • BlightBlight Member Posts: 14

    Do you anything but insta-saw Billy at high ranks?
    Do you anything but the double purple add-ons for Spirit at high ranks?
    Why should Legion be any different?
    Why should Legion have more high tier viable option's than any killer but Nurse?

  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    @Blight said:
    Do you anything but insta-saw Billy at high ranks?
    Do you anything but the double purple add-ons for Spirit at high ranks?
    Why should Legion be any different?
    Why should Legion have more high tier viable option's than any killer but Nurse?

    It sounds like Billy and Spirit is your bane as survivor. No, in fact I see waaaay more appearances from the other killers.

    I see loads of killers who don't always have purple add-ons, what's your point? I'm a rank 1 killer and I don't always have purple add-ons. In fact for many I still use yellow.

    Legion should be considered for some change because billy, spirit, practically most killers still have more efficiency than Legion without add-ons, except Freddy and a couple others who are equal or slightly under.

    I haven't once stated that Legion should have more high tier viable options, but shouldn't all killers technically be equally viable high tear? That's a whole different subject though.

  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    @Shad03 said:
    I don't mind the 110% myself to be honest. But a honest to Entity good buff would be for Feral Frenzy to work with NoEd, then people will be like "OH S**T!"

    It pains me to say this, but I don't think the timer should go down while being chased. Everything else is solid though.

    What sort of ranks are you playing at as Legion? An experienced survivor who knows his current movement speed can take full advantage of that, based on what I have been against.

    The NoEd would be cool but then it comes down to an end game spree of clutch heals. And 75% of the time NoEd is destroyed in about 30/40 seconds of being activated.

    I'm quite interested to hear why you think Legion and his ability make him a viable killer, if you have the time let me know! I'll be sure to read it.

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,733

    @The_Trapper said:

    @Shad03 said:
    I don't mind the 110% myself to be honest. But a honest to Entity good buff would be for Feral Frenzy to work with NoEd, then people will be like "OH S**T!"

    It pains me to say this, but I don't think the timer should go down while being chased. Everything else is solid though.

    What sort of ranks are you playing at as Legion? An experienced survivor who knows his current movement speed can take full advantage of that, based on what I have been against.

    The NoEd would be cool but then it comes down to an end game spree of clutch heals. And 75% of the time NoEd is destroyed in about 30/40 seconds of being activated.

    I'm quite interested to hear why you think Legion and his ability make him a viable killer, if you have the time let me know! I'll be sure to read it.

    When I first got him I was like rank 4-2. I did alright but I guess that's because he was relatively new.

    The next few games I actually COULD play were pretty alright too with the rank reset. With him alone I got to rank 8-7 from rank 12(ish). Sure I get ran around, sure I get looped, but I guess because I played Hag for a good decent time I found the speed tolerable. Plus once I got Ruin I did better but then again all killers do at least marginally better with that perk. Shadowborn or M&A (Preferred) are also really nice on him, as the F.O.V makes you feel faster.

    I am not saying his is a viable killer persay, only that if used 'right' he can net you a kill or four if the survivors, as with all killers, make mistakes. Could the Legion be better? Of course, but for now I am making my way up the ranks with him, whether or not I kill. It all comes down to your play style. I am not a complete tunneler, if I see another target normally I'd go for them, especially after a unhook.

    Do I want him to be Nurse Tier? No, Trapper or Huntress tier probably. But my opinion is that he is fine mostly as he is. He definitely needs some tweaks but again my opinion is that he is pretty good.

  • SpiritbxSpiritbx Member Posts: 261

    @Blight said:
    Do you anything but insta-saw Billy at high ranks?
    Do you anything but the double purple add-ons for Spirit at high ranks?
    Why should Legion be any different?
    Why should Legion have more high tier viable option's than any killer but Nurse?

    Point made, so to make it fair, we lowered survivor action speed greatly, but don't worry, you can use purple toolboxes and addons to be viable again!

    I have you have a both purple items AND addons, otherwise it's going to be slower than it was before.

    That'show killers have to live, dependent on top tier addons, with no consistant way of getting them since there's no shop to sell all the other 95% of useless addons.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    I haven't reached the red ranks yet but I know that Legion can totally be bullied because when I play Survivor Legion gets no kills or gets some kills, those some kills are because of NOED and them walking after you catches you off guard and no one is prepared for it. Everyone is cocky at the end so they let their guard down. But anyway Legion is easily outmanueverable in Frenzy, just run, running around corners because he can't see scratch marks, loop till he gets tired of it, stun him, etc.

    When I play Legion I only do bad on big maps or when I get juked during Frenzy. The chases are always long and tedious and the only time I have ever felt powerful as Legion is when I used Frank's Mixtape because his power actually felt powerful and helped me as a killer. If a killer has one addon that makes him viable and feel normal to play as then they are flawed and that addon should be part of the basekit. Killers should be powerful, addons should change their playstyle or give them a small boost, not be dependant on the addon(s) to succeed. I can play Clown without addons and still get a 4k, the addons are just a nice to have.

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 645

    Legion is easy to play. Even at red ranks and it doesn't need a buff.

    It doesn't suffer from gen rush. People are just BORED facing legion so they want the game getting fast, not healing cause it's pointless and rushing toolboxes.

    It needs a complete rework cause there's actually no counter play to him, especially when you're a team of solo survivors. It's not fun to play against, it's just a "lose your time" killer. Chase mecanics disappears, mind game disappears... Braindead killer.

    Yes you gonna be bullied if you play bad at killer in general, if you camp and hope for Noed to save you.

    But if you get a bit of logic, you don't even need to tunnel / patrol to get a 4K.

    And whatever after all, even if 3 survivors escape you gonna make 30K score anyway, so that's a win.

    Legion is broken.

  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    @Jago said:
    Legion is easy to play. Even at red ranks and it doesn't need a buff.

    It doesn't suffer from gen rush. People are just BORED facing legion so they want the game getting fast, not healing cause it's pointless and rushing toolboxes.

    It needs a complete rework cause there's actually no counter play to him, especially when you're a team of solo survivors. It's not fun to play against, it's just a "lose your time" killer. Chase mecanics disappears, mind game disappears... Braindead killer.

    Yes you gonna be bullied if you play bad at killer in general, if you camp and hope for Noed to save you.

    But if you get a bit of logic, you don't even need to tunnel / patrol to get a 4K.

    And whatever after all, even if 3 survivors escape you gonna make 30K score anyway, so that's a win.

    Legion is broken.

    Legion is "easy" to play based on you don't need to really practice that much to understand him, if you mean he's easy to play to get 4K? I would disagree.

    When you say he doesn't suffer from gen rush, I was a tad confused. If Legion has to spend a long time chasing compared to other killers, what are the other survivors doing? 80% of the time they are doing a gen.

    I kind of agree with you on your next point, though you can take advantage of the lack of scratch marks. Combine the speed boost from the hit, iron will and lack of scratch marks and you have a juke ability. But that's reliant on perks.

    I haven't used Noed in god knows how long, and while I am not the best killer, I would not say I am bad. So your point here really doesn't address my point about how Legion can be bullied.

    Your next point was a little to short, how do you think you get 4K without purple add-ons as Legion?

    I agree, Legion will still earn you BPs easily but it is not as satisfying as getting the 4K is it? We don't want a killer that's good at getting BPs, we want one that's good at doing their job of killing people.

  • katergameskatergames Member Posts: 43
    edited December 2018

    honestly I don't see the point of legion's ability if they're just going to continue to chase one person and down them outside of frenzy. that's just trapper without traps. It's really boring.

    Edit: the point is to apply pressure by getting everyone with frenzy at once. People who play with m1 are boring, is what i mean.

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 645

    @The_Trapper said:

    I agree, Legion will still earn you BPs easily but it is not as satisfying as getting the 4K is it? We don't want a killer that's good at getting BPs, we want one that's good at doing their job of killing people.

    I don't know mate. I don't enjoy doing 4k anymore. I don't care about this since it has been the graal thing suggested by toxic aka "competitive" killers like Truetalent. I just enjoy playing funny killers like Huntress, spirit and succeeding without doing low "strat" like tunneling, hard patrolling or noed.

    If I know everyone has fun on the game including me, focusing on improving my efficiency, then it's all good.

    4 BBQ stacks is my win.

    R1 btw

  • ZarathosZarathos Member Posts: 844
    Jago said:

    @The_Trapper said:

    I agree, Legion will still earn you BPs easily but it is not as satisfying as getting the 4K is it? We don't want a killer that's good at getting BPs, we want one that's good at doing their job of killing people.

    I don't know mate. I don't enjoy doing 4k anymore. I don't care about this since it has been the graal thing suggested by toxic aka "competitive" killers like Truetalent. I just enjoy playing funny killers like Huntress, spirit and succeeding without doing low "strat" like tunneling, hard patrolling or noed.

    If I know everyone has fun on the game including me, focusing on improving my efficiency, then it's all good.

    4 BBQ stacks is my win.

    R1 btw

    People dont want to play killer and zero kill unless they know they were the ones who messed up. A 0k indicates you played badly a 2 k means average a 3k is well played and a 4k is a perfect game. Same goes for most survivours where escape is a victory for most survivorus or the very least they got their friend out. 

    Playing to entertain survivours is apprently what is supposed to be the norm even though if you do this it means no hitting survivours after they have recently been hooked so free saves more hands on gens, faster gamesel etc. Also no patrolling so you have to go hunt survivours in the distance who have your tr to aware them to hide and opens up a lot of easy saves.

    Nothings is wrong with patrolling or tunneling dbd is a team game if you allies arent helping you get out or arent pressuring the killer to leave by doing gens tuats a failure of the team. If i want to draw killer away from a hooked survivour I will do a gen close by too make the killer leave if they dotn we do gens and leave. Killer depips and we all move on to other games.

    I had a game as clown where I wanted to see if playing by the survivour rules how well i would do. Which ended in a 1k where every chase was ended fast and all survivours were two hooked. So ya if you think your playstyle will net you kills it wont even in perfect game survivor rules will screw you. 
  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    @Zarathos said:
    Jago said:

    @The_Trapper said:

    I agree, Legion will still earn you BPs easily but it is not as satisfying as getting the 4K is it? We don't want a killer that's good at getting BPs, we want one that's good at doing their job of killing people.

    I don't know mate. I don't enjoy doing 4k anymore. I don't care about this since it has been the graal thing suggested by toxic aka "competitive" killers like Truetalent. I just enjoy playing funny killers like Huntress, spirit and succeeding without doing low "strat" like tunneling, hard patrolling or noed.

    If I know everyone has fun on the game including me, focusing on improving my efficiency, then it's all good.

    4 BBQ stacks is my win.

    R1 btw

    People dont want to play killer and zero kill unless they know they were the ones who messed up. A 0k indicates you played badly a 2 k means average a 3k is well played and a 4k is a perfect game. Same goes for most survivours where escape is a victory for most survivorus or the very least they got their friend out. 

    Playing to entertain survivours is apprently what is supposed to be the norm even though if you do this it means no hitting survivours after they have recently been hooked so free saves more hands on gens, faster gamesel etc. Also no patrolling so you have to go hunt survivours in the distance who have your tr to aware them to hide and opens up a lot of easy saves.

    Nothings is wrong with patrolling or tunneling dbd is a team game if you allies arent helping you get out or arent pressuring the killer to leave by doing gens tuats a failure of the team. If i want to draw killer away from a hooked survivour I will do a gen close by too make the killer leave if they dotn we do gens and leave. Killer depips and we all move on to other games.

    I had a game as clown where I wanted to see if playing by the survivour rules how well i would do. Which ended in a 1k where every chase was ended fast and all survivours were two hooked. So ya if you think your playstyle will net you kills it wont even in perfect game survivor rules will screw you. 

    I agree with most of what you said, which lets me elaborate on a previous point I made.

    As a killer it is very unsatisfying to not get a 3/4k, as the killer your real objective should be to kill the survivors. You're not much of a killer if your objective is just to 'beat up the survivors but not too badly' for the sake of some ingame currency. Granted however, that having more BP than the survivors does make it less annoying but it would REALLY suck if we had to truly take much credit for getting more BP.

  • The_TrapperThe_Trapper Member Posts: 186

    @katergames said:
    honestly I don't see the point of legion's ability if they're just going to continue to chase one person and down them outside of frenzy. that's just trapper without traps. It's really boring.

    Edit: the point is to apply pressure by getting everyone with frenzy at once. People who play with m1 are boring, is what i mean.

    Maybe I am wrong about this, but if trapper can chase survivors with a chance of catching them why shouldn't Legion be able to? That's quite a broad question, in that case the question could be applied to any killer.

    So it comes down to their ability, if LF has an insta-down, but still moves at the same speed; you're combining a very lethal ability with a killer who can avoid using it and still put up a good chase.

    To me, Legion's abilities without add-ons is very ineffective compared to most other killers, the only killer who possibly suffers more would be Freddy, and the thin difference can be altered based on opinion of the two. That's why I think he should have a more sensible movement speed.

    Lore wise, I don't see why Legion shouldn't move at the same speed. Nurse, Spirit and Hag all have some sort of legit reason why they would not move as fast. Huntress is a special exception given that she has a ranged ability. I know lore wasn't brought up, but it was an opportunity to cover it.

  • ZarathosZarathos Member Posts: 844

    @Zarathos said:
    Jago said:

    @The_Trapper said:

    I agree, Legion will still earn you BPs easily but it is not as satisfying as getting the 4K is it? We don't want a killer that's good at getting BPs, we want one that's good at doing their job of killing people.

    I don't know mate. I don't enjoy doing 4k anymore. I don't care about this since it has been the graal thing suggested by toxic aka "competitive" killers like Truetalent. I just enjoy playing funny killers like Huntress, spirit and succeeding without doing low "strat" like tunneling, hard patrolling or noed.

    If I know everyone has fun on the game including me, focusing on improving my efficiency, then it's all good.

    4 BBQ stacks is my win.

    R1 btw

    People dont want to play killer and zero kill unless they know they were the ones who messed up. A 0k indicates you played badly a 2 k means average a 3k is well played and a 4k is a perfect game. Same goes for most survivours where escape is a victory for most survivorus or the very least they got their friend out. 

    Playing to entertain survivours is apprently what is supposed to be the norm even though if you do this it means no hitting survivours after they have recently been hooked so free saves more hands on gens, faster gamesel etc. Also no patrolling so you have to go hunt survivours in the distance who have your tr to aware them to hide and opens up a lot of easy saves.

    Nothings is wrong with patrolling or tunneling dbd is a team game if you allies arent helping you get out or arent pressuring the killer to leave by doing gens tuats a failure of the team. If i want to draw killer away from a hooked survivour I will do a gen close by too make the killer leave if they dotn we do gens and leave. Killer depips and we all move on to other games.

    I had a game as clown where I wanted to see if playing by the survivour rules how well i would do. Which ended in a 1k where every chase was ended fast and all survivours were two hooked. So ya if you think your playstyle will net you kills it wont even in perfect game survivor rules will screw you. 

    I agree with most of what you said, which lets me elaborate on a previous point I made.

    As a killer it is very unsatisfying to not get a 3/4k, as the killer your real objective should be to kill the survivors. You're not much of a killer if your objective is just to 'beat up the survivors but not too badly' for the sake of some ingame currency. Granted however, that having more BP than the survivors does make it less annoying but it would REALLY suck if we had to truly take much credit for getting more BP.

    Im on board with giving survivors more scoring categories seems pretty reasonable to me. I suggested revamping survival so player got less points for escaping but would be able to gain survival points for any action they do that contributes to the progress the team makes to getting gens and doors open, keeping the team alive, and containing the killer.

    Survivours always complain about bp but i reckon its not the killers job to make it so you get a load of points. Behaviour have to adjust survival as
    A. You cant reach the cap of 8000 regardless of how well you play. 
    B. Losing 5000 points just because you died even though you contributed masively to the teams success is frankly unacceptable. 


  • KhroalthemadbomberKhroalthemadbomber Member Posts: 974
    Legion gets you the most empty feeling rank ups in the game. While some people look at four survivors escaping with 30k BP and think "Job well done." You get your pip and carry on.

    I understand that people think this is acceptable, but I'm not among them. When I play a Killer in DbD, I do it with the intention to actually KILL people as the name implies. To not kill anyone or BARELY kill one person makes me feel that, even though I ranked up and got lots of BP, it was all a waste of time. That it was not earned. A win for me as the killer is two or more people being impaled by Entity spikes, rising to the sky every match.

    Legion does not give me that feeling. Legion is an easy pass to rank up and nothing more.
  • OnionthingOnionthing Member Posts: 421

    I have said it once and I'll say it again. Legion is a troll:

    You can rank and pip with no kills.
    You run around like a spastic child ping ponging through survivors.
    You slow the game down, just like pig, to the point you can run other things than ruin.
    It feels like the devs created this abomination as a joke about to all the salty survivors complain that killers are unfair tryhards, by creating a killer that is a troll-y try hard who will still "win" even when they "lose."

    I support Legion in its current form, because it rebels against the rest of the Killer format. I can play Legion and "shrug" my shoulders at a 1k and smile because I'm still getting a "ruthless" killer because I made survivors lives a living hell.

    Legion to me is a love letter to forum whining ...

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