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The big problem with the Emblem system (from a Survivor perspective)

Emblems are majorly, majorly flawed; one needs only look at how awful high ranked games are to prove that. I'm at Rank 3 and I genuinely don't want to play this game because every match I do 3 gens solo and then get hooked and see the other 3 Survivors crouched in a corner. But I'm not going to complain about how easy it is to rank up and how hard it is to depip because I already made a Reddit thread about it. https://old.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/aaodzg/emblems_need_a_major_overhaul/

Instead I'm going to bring up the biggest problem I see with the Emblem system from a Survivor standpoint: You only derank when your teammates are bad.

Two of the emblems are based on doing things - unhooking Survivors and doing Gens. Guess when you can't unhook people or do gens: when you're hooked.
In addition two of the emblems are based on avoiding the Killer: you can't avoid the Killer when you get unsafely unhooked.

I've played quite a few matches during this Bloodhunt and the vast majority of times that I've depipped have been because a WGLF farmer without Borrowed Time farmed me after my first hook.
Being downed after being unsafely unhooked should reduce the rate at which you lose emblems. Perhaps make it give a bit of Chaser or Unbroken so that farmed Survivors are awarded with a safety pip instead of a depip.

Comments

  • ZarathosZarathos Member Posts: 844

    Emblems are majorly, majorly flawed; one needs only look at how awful high ranked games are to prove that. I'm at Rank 3 and I genuinely don't want to play this game because every match I do 3 gens solo and then get hooked and see the other 3 Survivors crouched in a corner. But I'm not going to complain about how easy it is to rank up and how hard it is to depip because I already made a Reddit thread about it. https://old.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/aaodzg/emblems_need_a_major_overhaul/

    Instead I'm going to bring up the biggest problem I see with the Emblem system from a Survivor standpoint: You only derank when your teammates are bad.

    Two of the emblems are based on doing things - unhooking Survivors and doing Gens. Guess when you can't unhook people or do gens: when you're hooked.
    In addition two of the emblems are based on avoiding the Killer: you can't avoid the Killer when you get unsafely unhooked.

    I've played quite a few matches during this Bloodhunt and the vast majority of times that I've depipped have been because a WGLF farmer without Borrowed Time farmed me after my first hook.
    Being downed after being unsafely unhooked should reduce the rate at which you lose emblems. Perhaps make it give a bit of Chaser or Unbroken so that farmed Survivors are awarded with a safety pip instead of a depip.

    I have been their its awful but your idea would leave it prone to exploitation. You could ask a friend to do this deliberatly to prevent a depip. Benovolance emblem needs to be nerfed and chaser needs to be buffed. Benovlance yields a large emblem for merely one safe unhook and a heal which is imo unbalanced. Where chaser requires extermely long chases to max out. 

    For context i had a 5 gen chase vs spirit and got a gold evader emblem only. I lost her once for about half a gens worth of time. You ability to loop a killer well is often more important then how well you do gens or make saves as the mechanics of both are not as tricky as the chase imo. I admit their is skill involved in some of the harder saves but for the most part the chase is often the best way to measure a survivours skill at playing their role. 
  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,593

    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,593

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Even if you instantly went down in the chase, there is no chance to depip in such a game.
    It would have been enough to do the gens and then perform NO unsafe unhooks, thats enough to black pip because the emblem system is such a joke.

    It must be harder to pip, for both sides btw

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,593

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Even if you instantly went down in the chase, there is no chance to depip in such a game.
    It would have been enough to do the gens and then perform NO unsafe unhooks, thats enough to black pip because the emblem system is such a joke.

    It must be harder to pip, for both sides btw

    Wait I safety pipped. Sorry if I said I depipped. But I definitely deserved a pip for doing 3 gens with ruin while my team got crushed.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208
    edited January 2

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Even if you instantly went down in the chase, there is no chance to depip in such a game.
    It would have been enough to do the gens and then perform NO unsafe unhooks, thats enough to black pip because the emblem system is such a joke.

    It must be harder to pip, for both sides btw

    Wait I safety pipped. Sorry if I said I depipped. But I definitely deserved a pip for doing 3 gens with ruin while my team got crushed.

    If thats all you have done, then no. Basically you were holding M1 the whole game

  • TigerKirby215TigerKirby215 Member Posts: 491

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Probably because you weren't actually in a "chase" but were just running from their Terror Radius.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,593

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Even if you instantly went down in the chase, there is no chance to depip in such a game.
    It would have been enough to do the gens and then perform NO unsafe unhooks, thats enough to black pip because the emblem system is such a joke.

    It must be harder to pip, for both sides btw

    Wait I safety pipped. Sorry if I said I depipped. But I definitely deserved a pip for doing 3 gens with ruin while my team got crushed.

    If thats all you have done, then no. Basically you were holding M1 the whole game

    Ok thanks, I'll be a little more careful now.

    @TigerKirby215 said:

    @Poweas said:

    @Master said:

    @Poweas said:
    My problem is, sometimes I do 3 gens WITH Ruin, while a Huntress dominates my team, I unhook a few people and I run her for a bit and I depip? Wtf is the logic there. And sometimes I do nothing and I double pip. It's inconsistent and annoying.

    3 gens = iridescent
    unhook a few = gold
    run a b it = silver

    guaranteed pip

    I got no emblem for chasing. Idk why though it definitely lasted 20 seconds.

    Probably because you weren't actually in a "chase" but were just running from their Terror Radius.

    Nope heard the chase music. I'm not that bad lol.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    I think of the emblem system like this.

    Old system too hard

    Current system too easy.

    New system just right (hopefully)

    Now bonus points for who gets that.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071
    edited January 2

    I think of the emblem system like this.

    Old system too hard

    Current system too easy.

    New system just right (hopefully)

    Now bonus points for who gets that.

    Oh and just got this error message box in lower left hand corner when I clicked post lol. It even had a lightbulb icon at start."

    "The selected database engine does not perform the requested task.|Gdn_MySQLDriver|GetDelete|

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,326

    I leave potato survivors to their own ends. I'll do what I can to protect them but I look out for myself. I always make sure 2 gens are done so someone can hatch, if it's not me I want it to be someone else. But if push comes to shove, I will sandbag the other guy if it means I can get out.

    You're problem is you think of survivors as a team. You're not a team. You're a group of survivors. If you got caught and no one saves, chances are they killed themselves by doing that. If no gens are done when you die that's a hatch game, and they have a 66% chance of dying too.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 1,521
    I don’t find it too easy to pip. The way you pip is just wonky. Sometimes I’ll get 20K BP and I won’t get a pip. Yet if I get 11K BP I’ll pip somehow. I know it isn’t based on points but it just seems wrong to get 20K BP and not pip.

    Not that it really matters once you get to the purple ranks.
  • AlwaysInAGoodShapeAlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,300

    @TigerKirby215

    You only derank when your teammates are bad.

    Right on the head
    I've read your reddit post, but your suggestion wouldn't solve anything.
    The problem is really easy to understand;

    The Emblem system is the win-condition.

    A win-condition must be to opposite of the opponent. If X wins, Y loses. This is simply not the case.
    Because this isn't the case in DBD, Survivors and Killers are teammates, not opponents.

    What needs to happen is that the emblem system DOES become opposite of that of their opponents, allowing for 0 type of farming. Everything survivors gain comes at the cost of the killer and vice versa.

    Both the killers and survivors have their separate ranking list and are ranked based on how good they perform for their faction.

    That is all we would need. It would be impossible for killers to be "OP" or survivors to be "OP", since they are matched against each other during the match, but are ranked relative to the performance of others in their faction in their rank.

  • CymerCymer Member Posts: 842
    I agree that the emblem system is flawed for survivors and don't represent the skill and value a survivor brings to the game. If you are the gen jokey you miss out on chasing, unhooking and healing/altruism points, but you probably won the match for your team. Same goes for a good looper. If you manage to occupy a killer for long enough, so your teammates can 3-5 gens done you get punished for sitting on the hook. And those altruism points are cancer! They are the reason why some survivors tend to hook farm, swarm hooks and stupidity bodyblock. As a killer I laugh my ass off, but when playing survivor it is just frustrating.
    And the emblem system only gives you less points the better you play!
    You are stealthy, gen doing and not getting hit and let others not get hit...you end up with less points...
  • t3hp0larbeart3hp0larbear Member Posts: 76

    @Master said:

    If thats all you have done, then no. Basically you were holding M1 the whole game

    I can agree that simply doing generators and not unhooking/healing people while failing to hide from and outsmart the killer doesn't deserve big rewards, but I really hate this mentality. If you want to distill it down like that, then chases are just holding W down with the occasional flick of the mouse and press of the spacebar. Congrats you can hold W and not fall over. [clap]

    Honestly I think the emblem system does a decent job at ensuring that players rank and derank accordingly. Every single game I've played to date with a matchmaking system always has the types who complain about not getting rank ups or being punished because the game told them they weren't as good as they thought, and frankly it's entitlement. People tend to think that any game they don't get completely destroyed in means that the number next to their name should go up and that's not how it's supposed to work.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @t3hp0larbear said:

    @Master said:

    If thats all you have done, then no. Basically you were holding M1 the whole game

    I can agree that simply doing generators and not unhooking/healing people while failing to hide from and outsmart the killer doesn't deserve big rewards, but I really hate this mentality. If you want to distill it down like that, then chases are just holding W down with the occasional flick of the mouse and press of the spacebar. Congrats you can hold W and not fall over. [clap]

    Honestly I think the emblem system does a decent job at ensuring that players rank and derank accordingly. Every single game I've played to date with a matchmaking system always has the types who complain about not getting rank ups or being punished because the game told them they weren't as good as they thought, and frankly it's entitlement. People tend to think that any game they don't get completely destroyed in means that the number next to their name should go up and that's not how it's supposed to work.

    While playing survivor doesnt inskill great mechanical skill at all, looping is probably the most skillfull as it can get.

    I dont believe that the emblem system is in a good state, thats due to it being absurdly easy to reach rank 1 (literally a few days) and even beginners can easily climb into the highest rank which should actually be reserved for the kind of players that live next to their PC, using a pee bottle etc :wink:

  • KurisataruKurisataru Member Posts: 433

    @Cymer said:
    I agree that the emblem system is flawed for survivors and don't represent the skill and value a survivor brings to the game. If you are the gen jokey you miss out on chasing, unhooking and healing/altruism points, but you probably won the match for your team. Same goes for a good looper. If you manage to occupy a killer for long enough, so your teammates can 3-5 gens done you get punished for sitting on the hook. And those altruism points are cancer! They are the reason why some survivors tend to hook farm, swarm hooks and stupidity bodyblock. As a killer I laugh my ass off, but when playing survivor it is just frustrating.
    And the emblem system only gives you less points the better you play!
    You are stealthy, gen doing and not getting hit and let others not get hit...you end up with less points...

    Thanks for reminding me to stop leveling up my david for Dead Hard and just continue leveling up my killers to get more points sooner. OOOHHH CANNNIIIBALLLLL, BBQ and Chili please~!

  • TigerKirby215TigerKirby215 Member Posts: 491

    @Cymer said:
    I agree that the emblem system is flawed for survivors and don't represent the skill and value a survivor brings to the game. If you are the gen jokey you miss out on chasing, unhooking and healing/altruism points, but you probably won the match for your team. Same goes for a good looper. If you manage to occupy a killer for long enough, so your teammates can 3-5 gens done you get punished for sitting on the hook. And those altruism points are cancer! They are the reason why some survivors tend to hook farm, swarm hooks and stupidity bodyblock. As a killer I laugh my ass off, but when playing survivor it is just frustrating.
    And the emblem system only gives you less points the better you play!
    You are stealthy, gen doing and not getting hit and let others not get hit...you end up with less points...

    This along with the problem with how Emblems score points leads to very strange ranking up overall. Evader Emblems are weird as hell as Benevolent/Lightbringer award points far too easily.

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