Camping Solutions.... again

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Comments

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 5,940

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Orion said:

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:

    @Orion said:

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    The majority of players don't like camping but we would need other mechanics to make camping redundant. Your suggestion isn't a solution, sorry. That doesn't mean that you should stop making suggestions if you can come up with good ideas. :)

    I'd like to think the majority doesn't like camping but if it's an issue than clearly not enough people dislike it. I don't have any statistics on this, so I'll have to take your word for it.

    How is my suggestion not a solution?

    Your suggestion is not a solution because:

    • Camping should always be an option for the Killer. Forcing the Killer to give free unhooks only makes hooks even less relevant than they already are.
    • Camping is inherently bad for the Killer, regardless of your excuses that "not everyone plays SWF". Your opponent is doing nothing for two full minutes.
    • It was already tried in the PTB and Survivors abused it.
    • Camping is a symptom; not a problem. Giving a blood transfusion to someone with a severed femoral artery and ignoring the wound is not a solution.
    • Camping is a Survivor-created problem with a Survivor-side solution. Like it or not, camping became widespread due to Survivors rewarding it.

    Genuinely I feel like you all 3 are just killer mains. I get that survivors abused a system that attempted to thwart people who use camping.
    That's all you needed to say.

    I don't agree with you on your other_ opinions_.

    The last part, at the very least, is not an opinion. It's a documented fact that anyone who's played the game since release can tell you. Back in the beginning, Survivors knew to rush gens when the Killer was camping. Nowadays, they want to force free unhooks.

    By the way, even if the rest are opinions doesn't mean pointing that out makes them invalid. This entire thread is your opinion, but you don't see anyone dismissing it out of hand because of it.

    Saying survivors reward camping and it's survivor's fault isn't entirely fair. It's one of the main four categories and survivors typically miss out entirely on one category as survival doesn't reward more than 5k and it rewards nothing if you don't get out. Besides, it isn't hopeful for survivors. If you don't have people on page, you are unlikely to get gens done in time to actually punish that behavior. If you're playing solo, you can't tell everyone you're being camped, so people are wasting time checking. Honestly it's poor gameplay and only rewarded 'cause it's boring. If killer camps, that only leaves survivors with M1ing to victor. There isn't chases, no saves, etc. It also means you're likely getting a bronze in that category and no points unless you farm hits. You also won't get any points towards boldness and could get a bronze or a black pip, depending. Then if you get camped, you're likely not getting much points unless it's done a few generators in or with the doors opened.

    Still, I wouldn't say the issue is forcing free hooks. I know how some survivors are entitled, but you also have to realize that that's how they get their points and they may want to make plays to get everyone out or as many as possible.

    TLDR; Camping is boring for survivors and you're likely to not get pips or points unless you feed into camping and try to go for save; therefore, not entirely survivor's fault.

    I get that camping is boring. Having been on all sides of camping (the one doing the camping, the one being camped, and the one not being camped), I understand that it's boring. It's boring to do, boring to experience, and boring when it's being done to someone else. However, Survivors do reward camping, and it is their fault that Killers do it as often as they do.
    When the game was first released, Survivors rushed generators when one of them was being camped. However, they soon started to let their entitlement get to their heads and tried to force unhooks even if the Killer was right there. This meant zero generator progress, and thus more time for the Killer to win. Eventually, Killers realized that they didn't have to go hunting for Survivors all that much - hook one, and the vultures come to you all on their own.
    The ones who were camped, rather than blame the people who were actually to blame - the hook vultures - blamed the Killers, which only furthered the vultures' entitlement. After all, if the people whose rounds you're actively ruining are on your side, then surely you must be right.
    So yes, it is actually entirely the Survivors' fault. The vultures for, well, being vultures, and the ones who blame Killers who take advantage of the vultures. This is a PvP game; taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes is what you're supposed to do.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 434

    @Tiersis said:
    There is a perk to show you when the killer is camping. Drop your DS and use it.

    Sometimes you really want to get rid of a super annoying player who was also playing like an asshat. It happens. For me, its usually whoever has Decisive Strike.

    No, don't make the progress bar stop if killer is near, because tryhard survivors always rush the hook, and would just do that to keep you near it.

    Why should we have to run really far away and give you a freebie unhook? Play the game, earn it.

    Currently balance in the game needs to be set as if all 4 players were coordinated and on voice chat at all times, until they give us a "Join Solo Queue" option that lets us only play against non SWF groups.

    If I have to put up with bully BS from 4 man SWF groups, sorry, you've gotta put up with my assumptions that you're likely part of a SWF group, otherwise its not fun for me, and I won't play.

    I get that 4/5 players are survivors, but that doesn't mean the killer has to clench up and grab his/her ankles every time just cause you don't know enough to do a gen while someones camping.

    Just drop DS. I wouldn't say use Kindred. It's cool, but if you have to show people you're being camped, that means your being camped. If you're having issues with being camped, run perks that will better help you avoid the killer or run the killer around.

    I agree, that isn't a good thing.

    Are you suggesting the best gameplay is to camp or saying that in regards to people who run at the hook when the killer is still nearby? For camping, you're wasting your time and creating a boring experience that either the survivors feed into, get everyone killed, but get their points. Or they don't and don't get points or pips. You know we lose points for leaving people on the hook, right? And if we get no beneficence because the hooked survivor had a friend who really didn't wanna leave, we're out of luck. Survivors already get less points than killer. We have a whole category that we only get 5k and we don't even get that if we happen to die ever.

    The people who camp still does it for solo que. They do it for bad players, too, or nontoxic players. It makes no difference.

    Once again, not that simple if you want a pip or points or if you have empathy and feel bad for them. It sucks leaving with just 1k if not less. The survivor was caught, but it isn't their fault that the killer decided to camp or that survivors decided to farm them. There's so much that survivors don't have any control over and you get so much more points as killer. Even when you have a bad match.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 434

    @Orion said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Orion said:

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:

    @Orion said:

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    The majority of players don't like camping but we would need other mechanics to make camping redundant. Your suggestion isn't a solution, sorry. That doesn't mean that you should stop making suggestions if you can come up with good ideas. :)

    I'd like to think the majority doesn't like camping but if it's an issue than clearly not enough people dislike it. I don't have any statistics on this, so I'll have to take your word for it.

    How is my suggestion not a solution?

    Your suggestion is not a solution because:

    • Camping should always be an option for the Killer. Forcing the Killer to give free unhooks only makes hooks even less relevant than they already are.
    • Camping is inherently bad for the Killer, regardless of your excuses that "not everyone plays SWF". Your opponent is doing nothing for two full minutes.
    • It was already tried in the PTB and Survivors abused it.
    • Camping is a symptom; not a problem. Giving a blood transfusion to someone with a severed femoral artery and ignoring the wound is not a solution.
    • Camping is a Survivor-created problem with a Survivor-side solution. Like it or not, camping became widespread due to Survivors rewarding it.

    Genuinely I feel like you all 3 are just killer mains. I get that survivors abused a system that attempted to thwart people who use camping.
    That's all you needed to say.

    I don't agree with you on your other_ opinions_.

    The last part, at the very least, is not an opinion. It's a documented fact that anyone who's played the game since release can tell you. Back in the beginning, Survivors knew to rush gens when the Killer was camping. Nowadays, they want to force free unhooks.

    By the way, even if the rest are opinions doesn't mean pointing that out makes them invalid. This entire thread is your opinion, but you don't see anyone dismissing it out of hand because of it.

    Saying survivors reward camping and it's survivor's fault isn't entirely fair. It's one of the main four categories and survivors typically miss out entirely on one category as survival doesn't reward more than 5k and it rewards nothing if you don't get out. Besides, it isn't hopeful for survivors. If you don't have people on page, you are unlikely to get gens done in time to actually punish that behavior. If you're playing solo, you can't tell everyone you're being camped, so people are wasting time checking. Honestly it's poor gameplay and only rewarded 'cause it's boring. If killer camps, that only leaves survivors with M1ing to victor. There isn't chases, no saves, etc. It also means you're likely getting a bronze in that category and no points unless you farm hits. You also won't get any points towards boldness and could get a bronze or a black pip, depending. Then if you get camped, you're likely not getting much points unless it's done a few generators in or with the doors opened.

    Still, I wouldn't say the issue is forcing free hooks. I know how some survivors are entitled, but you also have to realize that that's how they get their points and they may want to make plays to get everyone out or as many as possible.

    TLDR; Camping is boring for survivors and you're likely to not get pips or points unless you feed into camping and try to go for save; therefore, not entirely survivor's fault.

    I get that camping is boring. Having been on all sides of camping (the one doing the camping, the one being camped, and the one not being camped), I understand that it's boring. It's boring to do, boring to experience, and boring when it's being done to someone else. However, Survivors do reward camping, and it is their fault that Killers do it as often as they do.
    When the game was first released, Survivors rushed generators when one of them was being camped. However, they soon started to let their entitlement get to their heads and tried to force unhooks even if the Killer was right there. This meant zero generator progress, and thus more time for the Killer to win. Eventually, Killers realized that they didn't have to go hunting for Survivors all that much - hook one, and the vultures come to you all on their own.
    The ones who were camped, rather than blame the people who were actually to blame - the hook vultures - blamed the Killers, which only furthered the vultures' entitlement. After all, if the people whose rounds you're actively ruining are on your side, then surely you must be right.
    So yes, it is actually entirely the Survivors' fault. The vultures for, well, being vultures, and the ones who blame Killers who take advantage of the vultures. This is a PvP game; taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes is what you're supposed to do.

    Honestly if people were circling me and I died because none of them could get me off and they didn't even attempt to take the killer away, I would blame the survivor. Survivors looping around the hooked survivor or farming the survivor is the survivor's fault, not the killer. The most they can do is react to the situation. While it's nice when they just down you and show some sympathy, I don't really expect it. Having stupid teammates is part of playing survivor sometimes. It's to be expected.

    I still don't think it's entirely the Survivors' fault. As I had previously said, the points would discourage you from not going for the save and sometimes them 'punishing' the camp doesn't even work as they don't get the gens done in time. This is a PvP game, not a PvE. So, someone camping effects the game experience of another person. A person is unlikely to get all that much points if they're camped, unless it's further into the game or at the end with the doors opened. There really isn't anything stopping a killer from camping if he caught a survivor with 5 gens remaining and I think it shouldn't just be a benefit/benefit for the killer to camp. It should be a tactical choice they make that might negatively affect their points. I've had people tell me they camp to make sure they pip and I don't think camping should give you pips as there isn't much challenge to that sort of gameplay.

  • HURRI_KAINHURRI_KAIN Member Posts: 43

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:
    When I bring up face camping there's a few things people complain about, so before I bring up my idea let's just get this out of the way:

    Face camping/extreme camping. Well, first off if you're here to tell me face camping isn't an issue anymore because swivel hook- I'm describing their actions. If they're in your face and they're sitting there. They're face camping or whatever you want to call it. It upsets me everyone assumes you're playing with friends and they can tell you the killer is face camping them. When you're playing alone (and this is a team based game for survivors, none of this 'oh why did you even check' BS) you're going to waste time running up and seeing the killer is refusing to let a person go. It's cheap, boring, unfair, and mind boggling this issue has not been fixed. Swivel hook is nice but
    Solution: If you (the killer) are not chasing anyone and you're near a hooked survivor the survivors depletion bar before going into 2nd phase (or 3rd phase/death) the bar completely stops. As long as the killer is close to the hooked survivor, the survivor's depletion bar will stagnate coming to a complete halt (or move very very slowly) until the killer leaves the perimeters of the hooked survivor and the survivor is out of sight.

    MESSAGE TO KILLER MAINS: Pallet looping still takes skill, my heart goes out to you I still think it's rough and I have experienced this playing as killer. Don't assume I don't/haven't play killer. Killer has way more advantages and control over the game, and though I think they should have control, the game gives the above unfair advantage too, however you can still have control/fun/kills without using the above tactic. Gen rush isn't a thing, if you're a good killer some games you get everyone super fast, some games the survivors are better than you and will get gens super fast.This game isn't just made for killers, and with this specific issue it really makes me wonder if I should keep playing, because there's a lot of DC's going on, and the best solution would be to fix issues like this.

    (Part of this post was taken from my original post https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/33513/dcs-because-of-unresolved-issues )

    I'm seeing this a lot at rank 1 on PS4. There needs to be something done about facecampers. It was once talked about to decrease the killer's BP earnings when not in a chase, and while camping a survivor, I would agree with this, or even void BP earnings when camping, sometimes survivors DC just to deny the killer some BP because of their toxic behavior.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 7,214

    @HURRI_KAIN said:

    @wouldntyouliketoknow said:
    When I bring up face camping there's a few things people complain about, so before I bring up my idea let's just get this out of the way:

    Face camping/extreme camping. Well, first off if you're here to tell me face camping isn't an issue anymore because swivel hook- I'm describing their actions. If they're in your face and they're sitting there. They're face camping or whatever you want to call it. It upsets me everyone assumes you're playing with friends and they can tell you the killer is face camping them. When you're playing alone (and this is a team based game for survivors, none of this 'oh why did you even check' BS) you're going to waste time running up and seeing the killer is refusing to let a person go. It's cheap, boring, unfair, and mind boggling this issue has not been fixed. Swivel hook is nice but
    Solution: If you (the killer) are not chasing anyone and you're near a hooked survivor the survivors depletion bar before going into 2nd phase (or 3rd phase/death) the bar completely stops. As long as the killer is close to the hooked survivor, the survivor's depletion bar will stagnate coming to a complete halt (or move very very slowly) until the killer leaves the perimeters of the hooked survivor and the survivor is out of sight.

    MESSAGE TO KILLER MAINS: Pallet looping still takes skill, my heart goes out to you I still think it's rough and I have experienced this playing as killer. Don't assume I don't/haven't play killer. Killer has way more advantages and control over the game, and though I think they should have control, the game gives the above unfair advantage too, however you can still have control/fun/kills without using the above tactic. Gen rush isn't a thing, if you're a good killer some games you get everyone super fast, some games the survivors are better than you and will get gens super fast.This game isn't just made for killers, and with this specific issue it really makes me wonder if I should keep playing, because there's a lot of DC's going on, and the best solution would be to fix issues like this.

    (Part of this post was taken from my original post https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/33513/dcs-because-of-unresolved-issues )

    I'm seeing this a lot at rank 1 on PS4. There needs to be something done about facecampers. It was once talked about to decrease the killer's BP earnings when not in a chase, and while camping a survivor, I would agree with this, or even void BP earnings when camping, sometimes survivors DC just to deny the killer some BP because of their toxic behavior.

    A facecamping killer doesnt earn BP.
    Its the survivors throwing themselves at the camping killers that reward the killer.

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