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Push legion changes through.

BravescorpioBravescorpio Member Posts: 94
The Devs need to push these changes through to save Legion. We all know its pretty much a now or never thing. Ask Freddy or Leatherface. You get your shot at an upgrade, once it passes its forever before another relook beacuse there is always a killer behind that needs their look. 

Legion needed this, and it's quite strong, but is he stronger than the nurse? Billy? If he's not then why can't he also be up there with them? 

I do agree with another post though  his add-ons are a bit of a problem now, Frank's may need to be toned back, but let's have another killer who works without add-ons for a change. 

And if a complete rework is needed let Legion have his fun until that day. Don't revert him back to nothing for a rework that Freddy fans have been waiting way too long for. 

Comments

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 842

    Unlike the nurse and billy, the legion has zero counterplay. If he wants you down, you will be down. The only variable is how long it takes, which this buff makes absurdly short. The reason why its such a big deal vs how it was before is due to the healing times, and the fact that self care isnt built in for survivors: If survivors always heal to full every single time they get mended, it will be impossible to get even a few gens done unless the legion player is a full potato. Time management is a very important aspect of the game for both sides, and its the biggest reason why legion is so precarious to balance.

  • BravescorpioBravescorpio Member Posts: 94
    What do we do with Legion then? Not being argumentative, I guinenly want to know.

    He is weak as is, but pretty much any buff to his ability is too much, he almost requires a rework for any change to be satisfactory 
  • BravescorpioBravescorpio Member Posts: 94
    Trutalent suggested an idea to make it so that any whiff of his attack immediately ended frenzy. So 360s would really impact him. Though I'm not sure making a killers counter play a game mechanic that the devs didn't even design in a good idea. 
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 842

    he was not anywhere near as weak as everyone painted him out to be, but he was far from perfect. The biggest problems with him are his lack of counterplay, and his difficulty toward lethality. Those are the two biggest things that need to be addressed to make him a better killer, but they need to be addressed simultaneously. Unfortunately, getting a fine balance while adressing the two takes a lot of testing and revision, so I can't just vomit up an answer and expect it to be perfect: However, there are many things that can be looked at to help such as:

    Counterplay:

    • Make whiffed frenzy hits deplete frenzy meter
    • Make whiffed frenzy hits cause normal recovery
    • Make vaulting during frenzy deplete a portion of frenzy meter
    • Make legion unable to bodyblock while stunned at end of frenzy
    • Have DW pause when within a certain radius of legion, rather than being specifically reliant on being in a chase
    • Have DW pause while mending again, but keep the "progress reset" if hit again.

    Lethality:

    • Faster DW depletion
    • Solo mending takes longer baseline
    • Better synergy with more perks
    • Have exposed work with Frenzy on any survivor currently affected by DW.

    those are things that should be looked at and tested IN TANDEM with the opposite category. If they go with one side and not the other, or if they overdo one side, they will make him broken or useless. This PTB test is a good example as they made DW depletion faster, without offering any additional counterplay ideas. This is all separate from the Self Care change making it practically mandatory against him as well.

  • Dwight_ConfusionDwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,640

    The changes to him in the PTB are fantastic. They need to either leave him be and we'll have a top tier killer that is possibly better than Nurse? Or...

    They can make it to where any missed "Frenzy" attack will deplete his "power" gauge by a certain amount.

    Maybe 25%?

    I think this fixes any issues. I personally would just leave him alone. I think he's powerful, fun and while he's a pain in the you know what to face sometimes... he's challenging.

    Seriously. Leave him be as he is in the PTB or just make a missed Frenzy attack have a "minor" drawback? I don't know.

  • Maximus7Maximus7 Member Posts: 443

    If what is above is possible, then hell no.

  • Bravo0413Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,391
    Rework em instead and revert the changes back to what they were so nobody will touch em until they have something that requires actual skill to use instead of this killer that can actually be used by noobs within the first couple of hours of playing 
  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 2,100

    The devs said not every killer is supposed to be as strong as Hillbilly or Nurse. Also as mentioned above Legion doesn´t have counterplay so his ability can not be too strong otherwise it breaks the game which is now the case in the PTB. People will start quitting the game immediately like back then when Freddy was released which ultimately caused Freddy´s nerf so do you want Legion to end up like Freddy? No? Then leave him/her/them be. Legion is fine. Most people consistently get 2-4 kills with Legion on red ranks so he can´t be that bad.

  • ChuckyyoChuckyyo Member Posts: 65

    @Bravescorpio said:
    Trutalent suggested an idea to make it so that any whiff of his attack immediately ended frenzy. So 360s would really impact him. Though I'm not sure making a killers counter play a game mechanic that the devs didn't even design in a good idea. 

    That would be harsh for console players. 360s are easier, following survivors doing them is harder. Generally, following survivors is a bit harder in frenzy on console than on PC, I feel. It often takes some time to relocate a survivor if they juked you once without marks and with muffled sounds.

  • mgs2020mgs2020 Member Posts: 29

    @Yamaoka said:
    The devs said not every killer is supposed to be as strong as Hillbilly or Nurse. Also as mentioned above Legion doesn´t have counterplay so his ability can not be too strong otherwise it breaks the game which is now the case in the PTB. People will start quitting the game immediately like back then when Freddy was released which ultimately caused Freddy´s nerf so do you want Legion to end up like Freddy? No? Then leave him/her/them be. Legion is fine. Most people consistently get 2-4 kills with Legion on red ranks so he can´t be that bad.

    This right here. There shouldn't be a killer in the game that gets 4k's 90% of the matches. That is called unbalanced... I even had a killer main say to me last night that this is what all killer mains want, a easy killer that allows them to have mindless fun. If you're playing a multiplayer game online against people there shouldn't be a character you can pick every time and face roll. That's the definition of unbalanced lol.

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 3,294
    I can 100% guarantee mass disconnects from survivors if these Legion changes go through. The better option is to rework his entire power from scratch. There's has never been a killer more broken than Legion, from a design perspective. The only killer that comes close is Nurse and even she has [BAD WORD] counterplay.
  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    If these changes are kept then Legion's purple add-ons must be changed.

    If these changes are not kept then they're back at square 1 and Legion won't get anything to help him for a long time.

    Adding counterplay is the problem, we've all given great suggestions, 360's DO hurt console users like myself more than PC players. When I get juked as Legion I 8/10 don't hit them until I try to Frenzy them again, I miss and I keep missing or even lose them entirely. Having Legion's power decrease in vaults will help because a Survivor could potentially vault until Legion runs out. Combine this with the altered effects of the purple add-ons would help give Survivors a chance.

    Also having Legion this deadly is a good thing because the Devs told everyone if you want a top tier killer play those 2 killers only, not everyone meaning NO ONE ELSE can be a top tier killer. They basically said that a top tier killer is only those two killers, us getting a third is awesome because they would fix their intentional easy intentionally NON-Top tier killer.

  • vaindilvaindil Member Posts: 34

    @mgs2020 said:
    I even had a killer main say to me last night that this is what all killer mains want, a easy killer that allows them to have mindless fun.

    This is not what killer mains want, no one can speak for all of us. I want games that are fun for both the killer and survivors. This Legion change is fun for no one other than the people who love to be stupidly OP and rub it in everyone's faces, like the person you talked to last night.

  • soshidowsoshidow Member Posts: 83

    @Mc_Harty said:
    I can 100% guarantee mass disconnects from survivors if these Legion changes go through. The better option is to rework his entire power from scratch. There's has never been a killer more broken than Legion, from a design perspective. The only killer that comes close is Nurse and even she has [BAD WORD] counterplay.

    This... if the changes go through I will just rush gens and afk when he chases me. I wont even be screwing over my team because what difference does running make? About 10 seconds?

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208
    edited January 2019

    @Bravescorpio said:
    The Devs need to push these changes through to save Legion. We all know its pretty much a now or never thing. Ask Freddy or Leatherface. You get your shot at an upgrade, once it passes its forever before another relook beacuse there is always a killer behind that needs their look. 

    Legion needed this, and it's quite strong, but is he stronger than the nurse? Billy? If he's not then why can't he also be up there with them? 

    I do agree with another post though  his add-ons are a bit of a problem now, Frank's may need to be toned back, but let's have another killer who works without add-ons for a change. 

    And if a complete rework is needed let Legion have his fun until that day. Don't revert him back to nothing for a rework that Freddy fans have been waiting way too long for. 

    Sad but true, freddy is still lieing in the trashcan where they left him.

  • vaindilvaindil Member Posts: 34

    They just said on the dev stream that the Legion change will NOT be going live.

  • KenshinKenshin Member Posts: 912

    rip, so he will remain useless if u dont use mix tape. great job devs.

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