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Remove or Tweak Keys

GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
edited January 12 in General Discussions
As it stands, that is the most broken item in this game. Giving Survivors the ability to escape way before the exit gates can be powered. Furthermore, it's an instant opening, there's not even a bar to fill the action. So they hop right in immediately, add to that if it's a swf with comms it's a nightmare. Please, I insist you do something so it can be more balanced in this game. Between the items and the speed of gens and the supposed perk that should stall gens but doesn't, killers barely have time to cross the map(because you usually spawn them across from the killer) before even 1-2 gens are popped. 

At least add a second mandatory objective, something please!
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  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    edited January 12
    Vietfox said:
    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.
    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I also have to down you again, if I even have time to waste...
  • CardgreyCardgrey Member Posts: 547

    @Gardenia said:
    As it stands, that is the most broken item in this game. Giving Survivors the ability to escape way before the exit gates can be powered. Furthermore, it's an instant opening, there's not even a bar to fill the action. So they hop right in immediately, add to that if it's a swf with comms it's a nightmare. Please, I insist you do something so it can be more balanced in this game. Between the items and the speed of gens and the supposed perk that should stall gens but doesn't, killers barely have time to cross the map(because you usually spawn them across from the killer) before even 1-2 gens are popped. 

    At least add a second mandatory objective, something please!

    Idk as a killer this isn’t something I normally have to deal with. While I agree it can happen I will say it’s not all that often... it’s like 4 survivors runnin ds . Sure it can happen but it’s not most of your games.

  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    edited January 12
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:
    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I'm all for keys being nerfed, but moris are basically the killer equivalent. I feel like it's sorta' silly to want one removed while defending the other.

    Is it really though? Because I technically have to chase and down someone twice to finally mori someone. And if you factor in all that additional stuff, you'll barely have time to use that mori, and if you do you can get 1k. I agree with Vietfox that competent killers can 4k, but any competent killer vs a swf or even rank 1 survivors are going to have an extremely difficult time. Ruin barely does anything in high ranks. Because Survivors are used to finding totems. However, when you finally get to at least down or touch someone 1-2 gens are popped, it's madness! 

    Then you have the key, which is just broken. 
    Mori's have conditions similar to a key, the only difference is the condition for survivors to use the key is way more easier than the killers. We have to hook someone to use the mori.

    They have to have at least a 2-3 gens done and find the hatch (which isn't hard to find these days considering people have played this game thousands of hours), no time taken to open it, and viola, everyone can escape just right then and there.
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 4,049

    @Gardenia said:
    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I also have to down you again, if I even have time to waste...

    You realize that survivors need to do a gen for each one still alive plus 1 to even use the key right? That means if they use a key you probably killed someone.

  • Dwight_FairfieldDwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 1,372
    edited January 12

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @Gardenia said:
    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I also have to down you again, if I even have time to waste...

    You realize that survivors need to do a gen for each one still alive plus 1 to even use the key right? That means if they use a key you probably killed someone.

    Exactly. Hatch does not even appear until there is more gens repaired than there is survivors alive. Those gens don't repair themselves.

  • SenzuDuckSenzuDuck Member Posts: 2,317

    @Gardenia said:
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:

    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.
    

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I'm all for keys being nerfed, but moris are basically the killer equivalent. I feel like it's sorta' silly to want one removed while defending the other.

    Is it really though? Because I technically have to chase and down someone twice to finally mori someone. And if you factor in all that additional stuff, you'll barely have time to use that mori, and if you do you can get 1k. I agree with Vietfox that competent killers can 4k, but any competent killer vs a swf or even rank 1 survivors are going to have an extremely difficult time. Ruin barely does anything in high ranks. Because Survivors are used to finding totems. However, when you finally get to at least down or touch someone 1-2 gens are popped, it's madness! 

    Then you have the key, which is just broken. 
    Mori's have conditions similar to a key, the only difference is the condition for survivors tonuse the key is way more easier than the killers. We have to hook someone to use the mori.

    They have to have at least a 2-3 gens done and find the hatch (which isn't hard to find these days considering people have played this game thousands of hours), no time taken to open it, and viola, everyone can escape just right then and there.

    If all four survivors are alive then all gens have to be done for the hatch to spawn, they're basically out anyway, if you killer one survivor they can leave after 4 gens, if you kill 2 survivors they can leave after 3 gens.

    They still have to put a lot of work in as well as avoid you to use the key.

  • ForeheadSurviorsForeheadSurviors Member Posts: 154
    Gardenia said:
    As it stands, that is the most broken item in this game. Giving Survivors the ability to escape way before the exit gates can be powered. Furthermore, it's an instant opening, there's not even a bar to fill the action. So they hop right in immediately, add to that if it's a swf with comms it's a nightmare. Please, I insist you do something so it can be more balanced in this game. Between the items and the speed of gens and the supposed perk that should stall gens but doesn't, killers barely have time to cross the map(because you usually spawn them across from the killer) before even 1-2 gens are popped. 

    At least add a second mandatory objective, something please!
    have you never heard of tunnelling down the person who has a key strategy 
  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    IDK why it said I had to have my comment approved after editing but here was my last response:

    Is it really though? Because I technically have to chase and down someone twice to finally mori someone. And if you factor in all that additional stuff, you'll barely have time to use that mori, and if you do you can get 1k. I agree with Vietfox that competent killers can 4k, but any competent killer vs a swf or even rank 1 survivors are going to have an extremely difficult time. Ruin barely does anything in high ranks. Because Survivors are used to finding totems. However, when you finally get to at least down or touch someone 1-2 gens are popped, it's madness! 

    Then you have the key, which is just broken. 
    Mori's have conditions similar to a key, the only difference is the condition for survivors tonuse the key is way more easier than the killers. We have to hook someone to use the mori.

    They have to have at least a 2-3 gens done and find the hatch (which isn't hard to find these days considering people have played this game thousands of hours), no time taken to open it, and viola, everyone can escape just right then and there.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 1,757
    I'm all for nerfing both keys and moris.
  • DelfadorDelfador Member Posts: 2,553

    Ebony mories and key should just go. I think neither of them are healthy for this game.

    I would argue that insta heals and certain addons should be removed as well but at this point, it is whatever. As both sides I can tolerate them.

  • VietfoxVietfox Member Posts: 3,826
    Gardenia said:
    As it stands, that is the most broken item in this game. Giving Survivors the ability to escape way before the exit gates can be powered. Furthermore, it's an instant opening, there's not even a bar to fill the action. So they hop right in immediately, add to that if it's a swf with comms it's a nightmare. Please, I insist you do something so it can be more balanced in this game. Between the items and the speed of gens and the supposed perk that should stall gens but doesn't, killers barely have time to cross the map(because you usually spawn them across from the killer) before even 1-2 gens are popped. 

    At least add a second mandatory objective, something please!
    have you never heard of tunnelling down the person who has a key strategy 
    I sometimes bring a green key with no addons just to troll the killer.

  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    Listen everyone, I'm not trying to stir the pot. But it's difficult enough with how many items the survivors have. Even as survivor i barely use items because it's a significant advantage. 

    What I'm saying is the key at least need to be looked at or tweaked.

    Matter of fact, the entire hatch mechanic just needs a rework because that's the core issue. The hatch and gens ...
  • PeanitsPeanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 2,608

    @Gardenia said:
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:

    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.
    

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I'm all for keys being nerfed, but moris are basically the killer equivalent. I feel like it's sorta' silly to want one removed while defending the other.

    Is it really though? Because I technically have to chase and down someone twice to finally mori someone. And if you factor in all that additional stuff, you'll barely have time to use that mori, and if you do you can get 1k. I agree with Vietfox that competent killers can 4k, but any competent killer vs a swf or even rank 1 survivors are going to have an extremely difficult time. Ruin barely does anything in high ranks. Because Survivors are used to finding totems. However, when you finally get to at least down or touch someone 1-2 gens are popped, it's madness! 

    Then you have the key, which is just broken. 
    Mori's have conditions similar to a key, the only difference is the condition for survivors to use the key is way more easier than the killers. We have to hook someone to use the mori.

    They have to have at least a 2-3 gens done and find the hatch (which isn't hard to find these days considering people have played this game thousands of hours), no time taken to open it, and viola, everyone can escape just right then and there.

    I would argue that if you can't down someone twice before all the generators are done, you lost and you don't deserve to kill them. Same way if the survivors can't manage to power the generators before the killer kills everyone they don't deserve to win.

    Even then, the survivors need to repair the number of survivors alive + 1 generators to even use the key, so it's no different from a mori. Both sides have to put a little bit of effort in to use it, it's not just an instant win. I'm down for both being nerfed, but nerfing one and not the other is silly.

  • DelfadorDelfador Member Posts: 2,553

    @Vietfox said:

    I sometimes bring a green key with no addons just to troll the killer.

    You are making yourself a target though, be prepared to get tunneled to death :)

    Honestly if I find a green key, I just drop it since I don't want to be tunneled to death. You have balls, good.

  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:

    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.
    

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I'm all for keys being nerfed, but moris are basically the killer equivalent. I feel like it's sorta' silly to want one removed while defending the other.

    Is it really though? Because I technically have to chase and down someone twice to finally mori someone. And if you factor in all that additional stuff, you'll barely have time to use that mori, and if you do you can get 1k. I agree with Vietfox that competent killers can 4k, but any competent killer vs a swf or even rank 1 survivors are going to have an extremely difficult time. Ruin barely does anything in high ranks. Because Survivors are used to finding totems. However, when you finally get to at least down or touch someone 1-2 gens are popped, it's madness! 

    Then you have the key, which is just broken. 
    Mori's have conditions similar to a key, the only difference is the condition for survivors to use the key is way more easier than the killers. We have to hook someone to use the mori.

    They have to have at least a 2-3 gens done and find the hatch (which isn't hard to find these days considering people have played this game thousands of hours), no time taken to open it, and viola, everyone can escape just right then and there.

    I would argue that if you can't down someone twice before all the generators are done, you lost and you don't deserve to kill them. Same way if the survivors can't manage to power the generators before the killer kills everyone they don't deserve to win.

    Even then, the survivors need to repair the number of survivors alive + 1 generators to even use the key, so it's no different from a mori. Both sides have to put a little bit of effort in to use it, it's not just an instant win. I'm down for both being nerfed, but nerfing one and not the other is silly.

    I can agree Mori's can be reworked. Only if the hatch mechanic is reworked as well as keys.
  • SenzuDuckSenzuDuck Member Posts: 2,317

    @TAG said:
    I'm all for nerfing both keys and moris.

    This is the correct answer.

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 812

    Just remove moris and keys. I don't see a reason why either should still be in the game. If removing moris makes it too difficult to complete the mori daily then maybe there could be general mori perks. Someone suggested adding cypress mori as baseline, that could also work.

  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    Delfador said:

    Ebony mories and key should just go. I think neither of them are healthy for this game.

    I would argue that insta heals and certain addons should be removed as well but at this point, it is whatever. As both sides I can tolerate them.

    Ebony Mori's can go yes. Other Mori's should stay though.
  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    PolarBear said:

    Just remove moris and keys. I don't see a reason why either should still be in the game. If removing moris makes it too difficult to complete the mori daily then maybe there could be general mori perks. Someone suggested adding cypress mori as baseline, that could also work.

    That's a good idea
  • OooooofOooooof Member Posts: 109

    This guy just had a game with 4 man swf and one died so the 3 other survivors could jump into the hatch XD

  • VietfoxVietfox Member Posts: 3,826
    @Delfador said:

    @Vietfox said:

    I sometimes bring a green key with no addons just to troll the killer.

    You are making yourself a target though, be prepared to get tunneled to death :)

    Honestly if I find a green key, I just drop it since I don't want to be tunneled to death. You have balls, good.

    Surprisingly i don't get tunneled most of the times, especially when i 360 them thrice and see me heading to the killer shack.
  • IcemanIceman Member Posts: 954
    @Gardenia

    when there are 3+ survivors you need 4gens done to escape through the hatch. It is time consuming to look for the hatch. And by the time you do it find it, the last gen has already popped. 

    Also only swf are able to coordinate well with using the key. Solo players either just jump in the hatch in hope that you find it or you can message each player which takes time. Then you risk getting the birds flying over your head or either the killer finding you. 

    I am fine with the current mechanic of keys and moris 
  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 413
    edited January 12
    Iceman said:
    @Gardenia

    when there are 3+ survivors you need 4gens done to escape through the hatch. It is time consuming to look for the hatch. And by the time you do it find it, the last gen has already popped. 

    Also only swf are able to coordinate well with using the key. Solo players either just jump in the hatch in hope that you find it or you can message each player which takes time. Then you risk getting the birds flying over your head or either the killer finding you. 

    I am fine with the current mechanic of keys and moris 
    I am not. Actually making this thread we've uncovered some other issues of why the game is unenjoyable and unbalanced. A killer should have base mori for the last Survivor, however ebony mori should not exist.

    Keys needs tweaking, and so does the conditions for the hatch. To prevent hatch camping of a fellow survivor and also "hatch standoffs"(I just leave). Some of these things make the game unhealthy.
  • HellDescentHellDescent Member Posts: 1,966

    Keys are fine as long as the upcoming chest item rarity is not gonna increase the chance of getting a key from it

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 1,657

    Keys will also be a little bit more common now that the chests have a higher percentage of spawning Ultra Rares.

    I don't like the feeling of seeing two people escape through the hatch, yeah I killed half their team and them both escaping is fair because we both did a great job, but it feels like I got robbed. I mean I guess that's the point because it's the equivalent of the Mori and you both earn those things.

    Let me ask this, if they were to be tweaked/nerfed how you would do it?

    I personally already feel the Hatch should always need a key to open it, when the Hatch spawns a key is placed in a random chest, looted or not. But that key only opens the Hatch if everyone else is dead or the Gens are done.

  • DwightsLifeMattersDwightsLifeMatters Member Posts: 1,662
    Peanits said:

    @Gardenia said:
    Vietfox said:

    Moris can kill before reaching the 2nd hook stage.

    Yet In that time chasing you finally downing you, about 1-2 gens are popped. Not even factoring looping. Or flashlight saves, or even bodyblocking....

    I'm all for keys being nerfed, but moris are basically the killer equivalent. I feel like it's sorta' silly to want one removed while defending the other.

    I want both gone, ebony and keys. Both is cheap and absolutely destroys the fun of the opposite side
  • xChrisxxChrisx Member Posts: 455
    Remove mori and keys ez fix
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